(10-13-2021 08:15 PM)BigEastMike Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 07:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 02:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Oh god, Fox is gonna make us take the plunge on Gonzaga, aren't they?

Great travel partner for Creighton....


But seriously, I think it's Gonzaga or bust for BE expansion at this point. And the odds of Gonzaga joining the BE are pretty low.

Based on what? The Zags flirted with the MWC for crying out loud. They used their leverage to force the conference to play less conference games because Gonzaga knows playing in the WCC isn't good for them anymore. After New Year they pretty much go into the dark and now BYU is gone its even worse for them.

Based on geography, of course. Otherwise, Gonzaga would already be a member.

Gonzaga isn’t getting added. There’s “bad geography” like New York to Nebraska or Boston to Miami… and then there’s BAD GEOGRAPHY. Even Gonzaga’s AD admitted as much with respect to Big East membership. The basketball games would be great, but the overall athletic department issues would be a nightmare. Note that flying commercial flights into Spokane isn’t like flying into Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas or Denver - the options are way more limited for schools outside of the basketball teams that can take charter jets.

If there’s an addition of one school, then SLU is the favorite due to institutional fit, large market,
being a geographic to Creighton and at least solid basketball. Dayton is the other main option and a better on-the-court program and fan base, but their location means that Xavier will likely block them if it comes to 1-school expansion. If there’s a 2 or 3-school expansion, then Dayton has a lot better chance.

My sleeper Big East expansion pick in a multi-school expansion is Davidson: super elite academic school located in a college basketball hotbed near Charlotte with a good on-the-court pedigree.

Anyone saying Wichita State is a candidate doesn’t understand the Big East presidents. That’s like saying the Pac-12 should add BYU or the Big Ten should add Oklahoma State - the institutional fit simply isn’t there. That one is never happening.

VCU has a little more of a chance compared to a school like Wichita State, but my understanding has long been that Georgetown is vehemently opposed to them (and Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette have outsized voices in that league). UConn fit back into the Big East due to a shared history, but other public schools are going to have a harder time. They might be comfortable with UMass as an institution and it serves an important Northeast market, but they haven’t really done anything on-the-court lately to push the issue.

(10-13-2021 08:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 08:15 PM)BigEastMike Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 07:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 02:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Oh god, Fox is gonna make us take the plunge on Gonzaga, aren't they?

Great travel partner for Creighton....


But seriously, I think it's Gonzaga or bust for BE expansion at this point. And the odds of Gonzaga joining the BE are pretty low.

Based on what? The Zags flirted with the MWC for crying out loud. They used their leverage to force the conference to play less conference games because Gonzaga knows playing in the WCC isn't good for them anymore. After New Year they pretty much go into the dark and now BYU is gone its even worse for them.

Based on geography, of course. Otherwise, Gonzaga would already be a member.

Thats not how odds are formed. No school is a member of a conference until they are. In April you could have said If Texas and OU were going to be added to the SEC they would have been added by now." Circumstances change and if thats who the TV partners want the BE to add, they will add them. Thats it.

(10-13-2021 09:19 PM)BigEastMike Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 08:49 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 08:15 PM)BigEastMike Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 07:55 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 02:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Oh god, Fox is gonna make us take the plunge on Gonzaga, aren't they?

Great travel partner for Creighton....


But seriously, I think it's Gonzaga or bust for BE expansion at this point. And the odds of Gonzaga joining the BE are pretty low.

Based on what? The Zags flirted with the MWC for crying out loud. They used their leverage to force the conference to play less conference games because Gonzaga knows playing in the WCC isn't good for them anymore. After New Year they pretty much go into the dark and now BYU is gone its even worse for them.

Based on geography, of course. Otherwise, Gonzaga would already be a member.

Thats not how odds are formed. No school is a member of a conference until they are. In April you could have said If Texas and OU were going to be added to the SEC they would have been added by now." Circumstances change and if thats who the TV partners want the BE to add, they will add them. Thats it.

Let's not be pedantic. Even with the WCC losing BYU, it does not seem likely that Gonzaga will join the Big East, simply due to the geographical distance and time zone differences to overcome.

#12 will most likely be SLU/ They check all the boxes. I donr see going beyond 12 as an option at this time. If Gonzaga was in Minneapolis , upstate NY or Pittsburgh they would be in. Spokane is just too far.. Speaking of Minneapolis, maybe new D1 member St Thomas should be in the mix!

No joke: what about Rice?? It gives access to Texas, football has always been terrible, endowment is really good, academics are on par with the Ivies. More importantly, Rice can be reached by plane.

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(10-13-2021 10:04 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  #12 will most likely be SLU/ They check all the boxes. I donr see going beyond 12 as an option at this time. If Gonzaga was in Minneapolis , upstate NY or Pittsburgh they would be in. Spokane is just too far.. Speaking of Minneapolis, maybe new D1 member St Thomas should be in the mix!

I could see it in 20-30 years

(10-13-2021 10:29 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  No joke: what about Rice?? It gives access to Texas, football has always been terrible, endowment is really good, academics are on par with the Ivies. More importantly, Rice can be reached by plane.

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Doesn't make sense on any level for the Big East. Bad geography, bad basketball, bad crowds.

So let's assume that Gonzaga and Wichita are out (or are almost certainly non-starters).

That perhaps leaves as the top candidates Saint Louis, Dayton and VCU (if the Big East is, in fact, going to expand).

Various other reasonably legit wildcards have been mentioned (UMass, Davidson, etc.) but none seems strong enough overall.

Admittedly, I'm not as big a fan of the Big East as some posters, but I do want the league to fare well. My preference, in order, is 1. Dayton; 2. SLU; and 3. VCU. However, if I could choose between one of those or all three ... I choose the latter option to see the league go to 14 members.

Aha!

So schools presidents are the ones that decide on expansion, not commissioners.
Some of yall should take note.

(10-13-2021 10:29 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  No joke: what about Rice?? It gives access to Texas, football has always been terrible, endowment is really good, academics are on par with the Ivies. More importantly, Rice can be reached by plane.

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Australia can be reached by plane. Doesn't mean the Big East should be looking for schools in Australia.

(10-14-2021 01:31 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  Aha!

So schools presidents are the ones that decide on expansion, not commissioners.
Some of yall should take note.

If you know Val she doesn't say things just for the sake of saying them. If she's saying this publicly all presidents are on board with seeing who if anyone TV partners would want us to add to maximize revenue.

The big east expanding would be good news for ODU. Half of our fan base is obsessed with the idea of independence and A10 Olympic membership. I think it’d be awful for football with the lack of bowl tie-ins. But we don’t have a hard time scheduling teams with our great recruiting area.

Dayton and/or St Louis joining the Big East would make joining the A10 actually possible for ODU.

Dayton, St Louis, Valparaiso, St Bonnie, Davidson and Richmond fit the profile best. VCU and Wichita State aren't happening.

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(10-13-2021 02:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Oh god, Fox is gonna make us take the plunge on Gonzaga, aren't they?

If they're willing to pay for it, then fine, let's roll. The travel is Gonzaga's problem. I don't care that much about one trip out west each year, especially when that trip is to play a team like Gonzaga. Sure, I'd prefer Kansas, but that isn't happening. Other than those two, there are no real contenders. WSU/VCU/Dayton are non-starters. None of them move the needle.

(10-13-2021 05:00 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  Fox might want Gonzaga, but does Gonzaga want the Big East? They already can get #1 seeds and recruit whoever they want. How much more money would they have to make in the Big East to make it worthwhile?

This is all true, and it's why Gonzaga hasn't made a move like this yet. However, BYU leaving the WCC changes the calculus for them. With BYU, you've got an upper-mid-major conference. Without them, it's Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, and then a bunch of nothing. If Gonzaga was ever going to make a move, it would be now. Still feel like the MWC makes more sense for them, unless FOX is offering serious money in the Big East (figure somewhere around $8 million per team per year).

I’ve said this elsewhere: people tend to overrate geography in conference realignment in the Eastern and Central Time Zones, but vastly underrated geography in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones.

To put this into perspective, I’ve seen people whine about the Big Ten and Big East stretching out to
Nebraska. However, the distance from Omaha to New York is actually 100 miles *shorter* than the distance from Omaha to Spokane. Omaha is way further east than what many East Coast people perceive and, in turn, are completely underrating just how far out west Spokane is by comparison. Calling Creighton a “Western” school with Gonzaga is like lumping Miami and El Paso together as “Southern” schools.

Gonzaga is the most valuable basketball school that’s outside of the P5 and Big East by far, but this is one instance where the geography *does* matter as a dealbreaker. This isn’t like the Big 12 stretching out to BYU with power conference football revenue supporting it. Big East basketball is valuable, but geography stretched out that far is simply a shotgun marriage for money that won’t last. The Big East is a tight-knit league of institutional fits and doesn’t need that no matter how valuable Gonzaga might be.

There is no such thing as a basketball-only membership. Sure - if you’ve got P5 dollars OR you’re just worrying about basketball, then you have some leeway. However, Olympic sports flying commercial in and out of Spokane from the Eastern half of the US is just NOT workable. It’s not happening.

For the record I'm a Saint Louis guy if the BE is going to add a school because of all the logistical problems with Gonzaga, but my guess is Fox is saying they want Nova-Gonzaga matchups to put on Big Fox and the headaches are the schools problem to figure out.

My guess is that Ackerman is stating the obvious -- that any conference is always open to adding a member that brings strategic value to the conference. Further, it would be a useful exercise to actively review available candidates so that any decision to expand or not to expand is made with intention rather than by default.

That said, there are many conference moves that could be made between now and 2025, and it is at least possible that a school with strategic value could become available between now and then. There have been and may be scenarios in which a Kansas or a Memphis become available, for instance. The Big East needs to remain flexible in the event such an opportunity arises.

(10-13-2021 09:13 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Gonzaga isn’t getting added. There’s “bad geography” like New York to Nebraska or Boston to Miami… and then there’s BAD GEOGRAPHY. Even Gonzaga’s AD admitted as much with respect to Big East membership. The basketball games would be great, but the overall athletic department issues would be a nightmare. Note that flying commercial flights into Spokane isn’t like flying into Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas or Denver - the options are way more limited for schools outside of the basketball teams that can take charter jets.

If there’s an addition of one school, then SLU is the favorite due to institutional fit, large market,
being a geographic to Creighton and at least solid basketball. Dayton is the other main option and a better on-the-court program and fan base, but their location means that Xavier will likely block them if it comes to 1-school expansion. If there’s a 2 or 3-school expansion, then Dayton has a lot better chance.

My sleeper Big East expansion pick in a multi-school expansion is Davidson: super elite academic school located in a college basketball hotbed near Charlotte with a good on-the-court pedigree.

Anyone saying Wichita State is a candidate doesn’t understand the Big East presidents. That’s like saying the Pac-12 should add BYU or the Big Ten should add Oklahoma State - the institutional fit simply isn’t there. That one is never happening.

VCU has a little more of a chance compared to a school like Wichita State, but my understanding has long been that Georgetown is vehemently opposed to them (and Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette have outsized voices in that league). UConn fit back into the Big East due to a shared history, but other public schools are going to have a harder time. They might be comfortable with UMass as an institution and it serves an important Northeast market, but they haven’t really done anything on-the-court lately to push the issue.

I often hear/read opinions about Xavier's inclination to block Dayton, but never an explanation as to why. Both are private, catholic universities (Xavier is Jesuit and Dayton is Marianist), and of the two, Dayton has a higher national profile academically and offers a more diverse curriculum. The two schools are located 50 miles apart in separate cities which are merging into one large DMA, and proximity lends itself to a great rivalry.