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Pick the finish
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

When coaches make a bad call (e.g. not using prevent defense on the last play of the game) and the team loses a game they would've otherwise won, it's critical that the coach OWN it. Blaming the players is the worst thing he can do.

Are you reading this, Justin Fuente? YOU called a fake punt on 4th & 14, then YOU inserted an inexperienced backup QB on the next possession, which (thanks to the failed fake punt) started on your own 6 yard line... but I'm not angry, oh, no, not me!!! You WON... THIS TIME!
09-27-2021 11:50 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Don't tell me, tell SEC Shorts. We all know they are experts when it comes to college football. Right Sam Pittman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3b_xX13A30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9msHP5XzNI
09-27-2021 01:43 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Your question is based on the assumption he had the locker room to start the season. The hole at FSU is deeper than any lack of talent.

FSU has not come to grips with Bowden's exit. When you have that kind of success you can control players, boosters, and administrators to a degree. Even if there is disagreement, naybobs keep their damn mouths shut because everyone is under the spell of the "great man". Jimbo needed 10 more years to build something like that if it can be rebuilt. FSU has more horses pulling in different directions than meets the eye.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2021 03:20 PM by Statefan.)
09-27-2021 03:13 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Could be. I think it’ll be Prime Time soon enough.
09-27-2021 04:26 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 04:26 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Could be. I think it’ll be Prime Time soon enough.

I bet they give a good effort vs Cuse this Saturday. Their backs are against the wall and it is Parents Weekend.
09-27-2021 04:36 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 04:26 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Could be. I think it’ll be Prime Time soon enough.

FSU is on the Pitt / Miami road to ruin. Both programs were elite at one point. There was a decline. They keep thinking they are only 2-3 years away from a return to glory. When that doesn't happen, fire the coach and start over.

Reality is every time you fire the coach and start over, you fall a little further behind.

Pitt's Coaches Since Jackie Sherrill left in 1982
Foge Fazio - 4 years
Mike Gottfried - 4 years
Paul Hackett - 3 years
Johnny Majors II - 3 years
Walt Harris -8 years
Dave Wannestedt - 6 years
Mike Haywood - No games coached, fired after domestic abuse charge
Todd Graham - 1 year
Paul Chryst - 3 years
Pat Narduzzi - 7th year

10 coaches, average tenure 3.9 years.

Miami's Coaches Since Butch Davis left in 2000
Larry Coker - 6 years
Randy Shannon - 4 years
Al Golden - 4.5 years
Larry Scott - .5 years
Mark Richt - 3 years
Manny Diaz - 3rd year

5 coaches, Scott was an interim, average tenure 4.0 years

FSU's coaches since Jimbo left in 2017

Willie Taggert - 2 years
Mike Norvell - 2 years

2 coaches, average tenure 2 years

Already the long knives are out for Norvell and Diaz. There is a contingent of Pitt fans saying that if we don't win 10 games this year, Narduzzi should be fired. Narduzzi has a .600 winning percentage in the ACC.

I just looked at USC. They have an impressive 5 coaches in 12 years counting 2021. Pete Carroll left after the 2009 season. That is an average tenure of 2.4 years and they are looking for the 6th coach in 13 years which will bring the average tenure down to 2.17 years.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2021 06:31 PM by Shannon Panther.)
09-27-2021 06:23 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 06:23 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  10 coaches, average tenure 3.9 years.

Miami's Coaches Since Butch Davis left in 2000
Larry Coker - 6 years
Randy Shannon - 4 years
Al Golden - 4.5 years
Larry Scott - .5 years
Mark Richt - 3 years
Manny Diaz - 3rd year

5 coaches, Scott was an interim, average tenure 4.0 years

So Larry Scott isn't a good commissioner or head coach? Rimshot
09-27-2021 08:27 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 06:23 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 04:26 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Could be. I think it’ll be Prime Time soon enough.

FSU is on the Pitt / Miami road to ruin. Both programs were elite at one point. There was a decline. They keep thinking they are only 2-3 years away from a return to glory. When that doesn't happen, fire the coach and start over.

Reality is every time you fire the coach and start over, you fall a little further behind.

Pitt's Coaches Since Jackie Sherrill left in 1982
Foge Fazio - 4 years
Mike Gottfried - 4 years
Paul Hackett - 3 years
Johnny Majors II - 3 years
Walt Harris -8 years
Dave Wannestedt - 6 years
Mike Haywood - No games coached, fired after domestic abuse charge
Todd Graham - 1 year
Paul Chryst - 3 years
Pat Narduzzi - 7th year

10 coaches, average tenure 3.9 years.

Miami's Coaches Since Butch Davis left in 2000
Larry Coker - 6 years
Randy Shannon - 4 years
Al Golden - 4.5 years
Larry Scott - .5 years
Mark Richt - 3 years
Manny Diaz - 3rd year

5 coaches, Scott was an interim, average tenure 4.0 years

FSU's coaches since Jimbo left in 2017

Willie Taggert - 2 years
Mike Norvell - 2 years

2 coaches, average tenure 2 years

Already the long knives are out for Norvell and Diaz. There is a contingent of Pitt fans saying that if we don't win 10 games this year, Narduzzi should be fired. Narduzzi has a .600 winning percentage in the ACC.

I just looked at USC. They have an impressive 5 coaches in 12 years counting 2021. Pete Carroll left after the 2009 season. That is an average tenure of 2.4 years and they are looking for the 6th coach in 13 years which will bring the average tenure down to 2.17 years.

EXCELLENT POST!

Not saying coaches shouldn't be fired for performance, but it DOES set the program back a couple of years each time (so using that logic FSU is just now getting back to Willie Taggart levels - shudder!)

The AD needs to listen to boosters, but not necessarily fire every coach they are unhappy with. It takes time to build, and sometimes you have to tear down first.
09-28-2021 08:42 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Pick the finish
Yeah sure, great argument until you have John Bunting run your program into the ground for six years.
09-28-2021 10:07 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 06:23 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 04:26 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

Has Norvell lost the locker room?

Could be. I think it’ll be Prime Time soon enough.

FSU is on the Pitt / Miami road to ruin. Both programs were elite at one point. There was a decline. They keep thinking they are only 2-3 years away from a return to glory. When that doesn't happen, fire the coach and start over.

Reality is every time you fire the coach and start over, you fall a little further behind.

Pitt's Coaches Since Jackie Sherrill left in 1982
Foge Fazio - 4 years
Mike Gottfried - 4 years
Paul Hackett - 3 years
Johnny Majors II - 3 years
Walt Harris -8 years
Dave Wannestedt - 6 years
Mike Haywood - No games coached, fired after domestic abuse charge
Todd Graham - 1 year
Paul Chryst - 3 years
Pat Narduzzi - 7th year

10 coaches, average tenure 3.9 years.

Miami's Coaches Since Butch Davis left in 2000
Larry Coker - 6 years
Randy Shannon - 4 years
Al Golden - 4.5 years
Larry Scott - .5 years
Mark Richt - 3 years
Manny Diaz - 3rd year

5 coaches, Scott was an interim, average tenure 4.0 years

FSU's coaches since Jimbo left in 2017

Willie Taggert - 2 years
Mike Norvell - 2 years

2 coaches, average tenure 2 years

Already the long knives are out for Norvell and Diaz. There is a contingent of Pitt fans saying that if we don't win 10 games this year, Narduzzi should be fired. Narduzzi has a .600 winning percentage in the ACC.

I just looked at USC. They have an impressive 5 coaches in 12 years counting 2021. Pete Carroll left after the 2009 season. That is an average tenure of 2.4 years and they are looking for the 6th coach in 13 years which will bring the average tenure down to 2.17 years.

Pitt should have never fired Wanny. He was the only coach who got Pitt to double digit wins the last 30 years or more and he never had a losing season. He was bringing in 4 star recruits like crazy. I believe he would have raised Pitts gridiron profile significantly had he stayed.
09-28-2021 10:37 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Pick the finish
(09-28-2021 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  Yeah sure, great argument until you have John Bunting run your program into the ground for six years.

Herb Sendek says hello.
09-28-2021 10:42 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Pick the finish
I looked over the AP final polls in 5-7 year increments and noticed the following schools disappear from elite status and not return:

In the mid 1970's that's Arizona State and Maryland
In the early 80's it's Pitt
In the late 80's it Syracuse
In the early 90's it's Colorado
In the late 90 it's Kansas State, Miami, Tennessee, and Nebraska
In the middle 00's it Texas, West Va, and Virginia Tech
In the early 10's it's Michigan, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, and Baylor
In the late 10's it's Florida State

I look at the list and see very rich schools and some of more ordinary means. Most of the ordinary wealth schools seem to have obtained and then not been able to replace a transformative coach or a coach good enough not to piss away the advantages inherent to the school.

I also notice these are not by and large "cow colleges" another way to identify typically large land grant, AG, and STEM oriented, Male oriented universities. It makes me wonder if cultural influences are much more profound than we might imagine.

It's just not easy to support a top 10 football program at a "girls" school. I don't use the term just for gender but toward a more global way of looking at the world in a non-overly masculine way.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2021 11:25 AM by Statefan.)
09-28-2021 11:22 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Pick the finish
(09-28-2021 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  Yeah sure, great argument until you have John Bunting run your program into the ground for six years.

Even Bunting had his moments. Wasn't he the first Tar Heel football coach to beat FSU?
09-28-2021 11:48 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Pick the finish
(09-28-2021 11:22 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I looked over the AP final polls in 5-7 year increments and noticed the following schools disappear from elite status and not return:

In the mid 1970's that's Arizona State and Maryland
In the early 80's it's Pitt
In the late 80's it Syracuse
In the early 90's it's Colorado
In the late 90 it's Kansas State, Miami, Tennessee, and Nebraska
In the middle 00's it Texas, West Va, and Virginia Tech
In the early 10's it's Michigan, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, and Baylor
In the late 10's it's Florida State

I look at the list and see very rich schools and some of more ordinary means. Most of the ordinary wealth schools seem to have obtained and then not been able to replace a transformative coach or a coach good enough not to piss away the advantages inherent to the school.

I also notice these are not by and large "cow colleges" another way to identify typically large land grant, AG, and STEM oriented, Male oriented universities. It makes me wonder if cultural influences are much more profound than we might imagine.

It's just not easy to support a top 10 football program at a "girls" school. I don't use the term just for gender but toward a more global way of looking at the world in a non-overly masculine way.

The trend these days almost every school will become a girls school. "This fall, women outnumber men on two-year and four-year college campuses by millions. Nearly 60% of students are women while only about 40% are men, an education gap that has been widening for decades."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/t...278887002/
09-28-2021 01:35 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Pick the finish
(09-27-2021 06:03 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 05:55 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Anyone want to take bets on Florida State's first win in 2021? They do host UMass on Oct. 23. But they did lost to an FCS school.

It may be against Syracuse this weekend. I saw FSU's defense grow up right before my eyes in the second half of the Louisville game. Louisville had run roughshod over the Noles during the first half of that game. But shut down the UL offense in the second half. The SU sputtering offense may not be able to put up enough points on the FSU defense.

(09-27-2021 09:57 AM)esayem Wrote:  FSU has talent and I would not be so sure they're going to lose all their games just because they lost to an FCS team.

I expect Syracuse fans to respect Florida State this week since they are playing them. And North Carolina is playing FSU the following week. I wouldn't be smack talking my team's next opponent, I don't care if they were playing Wilkes University.

Since my school's not playing FSU this year, one thing to keep in mind is yes teams can lose to an FCS team and come back. The most famous FCS over FBS win I remember is when Appalachian State stunned Michigan. Michigan wound up in not just a bowl game but the Citrus Bowl which in Big 10 land is big. The problem is Florida State lost to Jacksonville State two weeks ago. They've had two weeks to prove us wrong and that game was a fluke and they failed. They're 0-4 and only seven of what 130 FBS teams are still winless? Come on, even my Illinois has won a game this year (although if it happens in Week 0 does it still count?)! Florida State isn't just getting hammered because they lost to an FCS team, they're also getting slammed because they're 0-4. And Florida State is getting ripped more because they used to be one of the greats and teams like to kick them while they are down. If Wake Forest were 0-4, no one would care. But all of the Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, UNC fans that had to see FSU win championship after championship now are enjoying an 0-4 Florida State. So if Florida State doesn't like to get insulted, they need to win.
09-28-2021 01:48 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Pick the finish
Cuse fans haven't seen a win at Tallahassee

Until we do, we won't be running our mouths.
09-28-2021 02:12 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Pick the finish
(09-28-2021 11:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-28-2021 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  Yeah sure, great argument until you have John Bunting run your program into the ground for six years.

Even Bunting had his moments. Wasn't he the first Tar Heel football coach to beat FSU?

Rocked them with Mack Brown/Torbush recruits.
09-29-2021 07:45 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Pick the finish
A fan at the Cuse board thought this weekend's ACC games will be so telling. I agree. Miami has already puked on themselves. Another Cuse fan said, I know nothing about La Tech but he already expects NCSt to step on a rake. Dabo sounded defeated already on Packer and Durham this am. The Swiss vs the Ville? Our mid-season Atlantic Favorite here? Cuse is 3-1 but would anyone be surprised if FSU beats them by 17?

Thursday, Sept. 30
Virginia at Miami, 7:30 p.m., ESPN

Saturday, Oct. 2
Duke at North Carolina, Noon, ESPN2
Pitt at Georgia Tech, Noon, ACC Network
Louisville at Wake Forest, 12:30 p.m., RSN
Syracuse at Florida State, 3:30 p.m., ACC Network
Louisiana Tech at NC State, 6 p.m., ACC Network Extra & ESPN+
Boston College at Clemson, 7:30 p.m., ACC Network
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2021 07:40 AM by TexanMark.)
10-01-2021 06:53 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Pick the finish
(10-01-2021 06:53 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  A fan at the Cuse board thought this weekend's ACC games will be so telling. I agree. Miami has already puked on themselves. Another Cuse fan said, I know nothing about La Tech but he already expects NCSt to step on a rake. Dabo sounded defeated already on Packer and Durham this am. The Swiss vs the Ville? Our mid-season Atlantic Favorite here? Cuse is 3-1 but would anyone be surprised if FSU beats them by 17?

Thursday, Sept. 30
Virginia at Miami, 7:30 p.m., ESPN

Saturday, Oct. 2
Duke at North Carolina, Noon, ESPN2
Pitt at Georgia Tech, Noon, ACC Network
Louisville at Wake Forest, 12:30 p.m., RSN
Syracuse at Florida State, 3:30 p.m., ACC Network
Louisiana Tech at NC State, 6 p.m., ACC Network Extra & ESPN+
Boston College at Clemson, 7:30 p.m., ACC Network

Pitt/GT winner has inside track on ACC Coastal (along with VT).
10-01-2021 09:42 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Pick the finish
If the GT defense looked like they did last week this week then something has indeed fundamentally changed. I'm not sold on the GT secondary yet. The receivers have been open. Kennesaw didn't throw it much. DJU couldn't throw it in the ocean. Howell got greedy and collected a bunch of sacks.
10-01-2021 10:36 AM
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