bluesox
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
SMU should be on the list. Heck, I would add smu and Memphis right now to get to 14. That would really separate the big 12 from the Mwc and AAC + give the big 12 a buffer if it lost anymore schools.
Big 14
East: UCF, WVU, Cincinnati, Memphis, Iowa state, Kansas state, Kansas
West: SMU, TCU, Houston, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma state, BYU
If anyone left add USF
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09-16-2021 10:14 AM |
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Frank the Tank
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
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09-16-2021 10:44 AM |
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HawaiiMongoose
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-15-2021 03:48 PM)RUScarlets Wrote: I've felt UC WVU to the ACC to keep the Big 12 out of that footprint. There is no one else the Big 12 can add in that region that is viable. It would be more of a preemptive expansion than not for the ACC, despite the fact those schools have already committed to the Big 12. I mean the ACC could just make them a better offer and they shouldn't have a problem "applying" for that "other job".
I still feel it will happen sooner than later, and USF/Memphis/Boise St can backfill in the Big 12. I don't feel this is a likely scenario especially given the aggressive timeline, but certainly a possibility for the next cycle beyond the immediate backfilling that has yet to take place.
I agree. Obviously geography is no longer a prime driver of realignment, but nonetheless just looking at a map it seems to me that if the ACC has any interest in expanding to 16 the no-brainer additions are Cincinnati and WVU. Notre Dame is never coming and there are no two better candidates left in their footprint. It would also allow them to set up a clean north-south divisional split with the Virginia-North Carolina border being the dividing line.
In that scenario the Big 12’s logical response would be to scoop up Memphis and USF. Boise State isn’t a good geographic or academic fit and BYU doesn’t need them as a travel partner since Iowa State can fill that role.
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09-16-2021 10:48 AM |
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bluesox
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
Is Boise a valuable add if the football program isn’t winning? Small market, weak academics, hard to get to and long ways away from other big 12 schools. If the big 12 wants to go west, UNLV or SD state are better road trips and Colorado state is a better academic fit. Does Boise state win in the big 12 and does winning trump its downside? I think the big 12 should let BYU be its western school and focus on eastern school s for expansion.
As for WVU to the acc, I think it’s a great pickup for them. I like the 3 pods of 5 for football and 8 conference games. You could include 5 pac 12 schools and 5 big 10 schools to equal out the 5 ND ACC games so each ACC school would have 9 games set per year. Going to 15 could work for the big 10 with a Kansas add
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2021 11:02 AM by bluesox.)
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09-16-2021 10:57 AM |
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Boots
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
Memphis and Boise should be next. Strongest two G5 brands left. This cripples both MWC and AAC and creates further separation. Think these two are announced quickly when TX and OU departure set.
And if you go by the 8 schools they just considered ...then logic would say SMU and USF are most likely if they go to 16.
Personally for 15 and 16 I would go west and get CSU (Denver market) and SDSU. Two big new markets.
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09-16-2021 10:58 AM |
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HawaiiMongoose
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
No question Boise State offers strong football and good TV value. They’ve improved a lot in basketball too. But as you’ve pointed out many times, university presidents make these decisions. Even in the MWC they’re considered second-tier academically, which is one of the reasons the conference took so long to bring them over from the WAC. Factor in geography and it’s not surprising to me that Boise State keeps landing in the good-but-not-best-choice spot.
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09-16-2021 10:59 AM |
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HawaiiMongoose
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 10:58 AM)Boots Wrote: Memphis and Boise should be next. Strongest two G5 brands left. This cripples both MWC and AAC and creates further separation. Think these two are announced quickly when TX and OU departure set.
And if you go by the 8 schools they just considered ...then logic would say SMU and USF are most likely if they go to 16.
Personally for 15 and 16 I would go west and get CSU (Denver market) and SDSU. Two big new markets.
Try Fort Collins. Denver is a pro town. And to the extent that market is interested in college sports, Colorado gets most of the attention.
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09-16-2021 11:02 AM |
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Claw
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 10:59 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: (09-16-2021 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
No question Boise State offers strong football and good TV value. They’ve improved a lot in basketball too. But as you’ve pointed out many times, university presidents make these decisions. Even in the MWC they’re considered second-tier academically, which is one of the reasons the conference took so long to bring them over from the WAC. Factor in geography and it’s not surprising to me that Boise State keeps landing in the good-but-not-best-choice spot.
The other problem is USF looks really good from the academic side of it.
If you put USF against Boise or Memphis it's academically over. Memphis has the edge on Boise academically - especially if the Carnegie R1 comes through as expected at the end of the year.
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09-16-2021 12:13 PM |
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UofMstateU
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
1. Academics are in the toilet.
2. No tv market
3. No recruiting market
4. Distance to anything and anyone besides BYU
5. Football would have been middle of the pack in the AAC at best
6. The school has acted like a punk-ass b*tch to some of those who now have voting rights in the B12
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09-16-2021 12:19 PM |
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bullet
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
Geographically, Boise might as well be Seattle. Its 400 miles beyond Provo which is over 1000 miles on average from the R8.
BYU does not make Boise work any better.
Boise is good from a short term TV value. I think they are a really risky long term bet. It would be one thing if they were Tulsa in the middle of the conference with good basketball to go with football. But they are a drag in other sports and they've got nothing to indicate their value would survive a couple of bad coaching choices. They would be in the smallest state in the P5.
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09-16-2021 12:23 PM |
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BIgCatonProwl
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
Boise is a glorified juco. Pretending to be a University.
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09-16-2021 12:37 PM |
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bullet
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/...281171002/
Why budgets matter:
"...The perception is that Memphis needs to build an on-campus stadium because the Liberty Bowl is 56 years old, and Cincinnati, UCF and Houston all built or significantly renovated on-campus stadiums in recent years and got into the Big 12 over Memphis last week.
The reality is Memphis needs to show the Big 12 it has the financial wherewithal, infrastructure and alumni support to fund an on campus stadium, more so than whatever structure that’s actually built because of that fundraising.
This is a school that needed more than a decade and a significant loan to recently open an $11 million indoor practice facility for the football program in 2020...."
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09-16-2021 01:00 PM |
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esayem
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 12:19 PM)UofMstateU Wrote: (09-16-2021 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: Man - I feel like I'm agreeing more with DavidSt these days. Boise State is getting weirdly underrated by many on this thread for some reason. I'd be quite surprised if they weren't included if the Big 12 adds another 2 schools. They make sense being paired with BYU as a Western flank and the program actually has some TV value.
1. Academics are in the toilet.
2. No tv market
3. No recruiting market
4. Distance to anything and anyone besides BYU
5. Football would have been middle of the pack in the AAC at best
6. The school has acted like a punk-ass b*tch to some of those who now have voting rights in the B12
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09-16-2021 01:17 PM |
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UofMstateU
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 01:00 PM)bullet Wrote: https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/...281171002/
Why budgets matter:
"...The perception is that Memphis needs to build an on-campus stadium because the Liberty Bowl is 56 years old, and Cincinnati, UCF and Houston all built or significantly renovated on-campus stadiums in recent years and got into the Big 12 over Memphis last week.
The reality is Memphis needs to show the Big 12 it has the financial wherewithal, infrastructure and alumni support to fund an on campus stadium, more so than whatever structure that’s actually built because of that fundraising.
This is a school that needed more than a decade and a significant loan to recently open an $11 million indoor practice facility for the football program in 2020...."
They certainly didnt need 10 years. What they needed was their own board of regents, which they finally got and transitioned to sometime between 2017 and 2018. Prior to that, all 4 year universities in the state operated under the same board of regents. Memphis raised $40million in about 4 years for the IPF and other upgrades such as for basketball.
I would hate to see the move to an OCS. For one, the Liberty Bowl is as on-campus as you can get, and is located closer to the university's dorms than a lot of other "OCS's". Its easy to get into and out of traffic wise, is a B12 sized stadium, and locker rooms and Tiger Lane are top notch. The press boxes are getting replaced now, and more seatbacks are being put in. The current press boxes blow, and is one of the biggest eyesores of the stadium. They are also cramped inside.
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09-16-2021 01:20 PM |
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esayem
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
I have to think Colorado State is ahead of Boise at this point.
All Big XII schools have on-campus stadiums. IMO, this hurts USF and Memphis. The Big XII is very much an old school “college conference”.
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09-16-2021 01:20 PM |
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Claw
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote: I have to think Colorado State is ahead of Boise at this point.
All Big XII schools have on-campus stadiums. IMO, this hurts USF and Memphis. The Big XII is very much an old school “college conference”.
Memphis' President revived on-campus stadium talk just this week much like USF did. So apparently it does matter.
A little Memphis city history is in order.
Memphis did millions of expansions and upgrades to Liberty Bowl stadium in order to land an NFL team that never came. Had they waited and built a new stadium instead, they would probably have gotten a team.
Then Memphis built the Pyramid expecting to land an NBA franchise. When we did get one, it was contingent on building a new arena. That is why we have FedEx Forum.
So the populace has been burned twice by building something in anticipation of its future use.
Politically, it is virtually impossible to build something today on the basis of future expectations. It just won't fly. If we have to have the stadium before moving up I don't think we'll ever move up. It is going to have to be contingent on the move actually happening.
That's a tough place to be in for us. We are NOT funded in any way by the city. We are a state school, but we have only recently formed our own Board of Regents separate from all the other schools in the state. That has given us some flexibility we haven't had in the past. Things are possible now that were not before. We'll see what happens.
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09-16-2021 02:03 PM |
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esayem
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 02:03 PM)Claw Wrote: (09-16-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote: I have to think Colorado State is ahead of Boise at this point.
All Big XII schools have on-campus stadiums. IMO, this hurts USF and Memphis. The Big XII is very much an old school “college conference”.
Memphis' President revived on-campus stadium talk just this week much like USF did. So apparently it does matter.
A little Memphis city history is in order.
Memphis did millions of expansions and upgrades to Liberty Bowl stadium in order to land an NFL team that never came. Had they waited and built a new stadium instead, they would probably have gotten a team.
Then Memphis built the Pyramid expecting to land an NBA franchise. When we did get one, it was contingent on building a new arena. That is why we have FedEx Forum.
So the populace has been burned twice by building something in anticipation of its future use.
Politically, it is virtually impossible to build something today on the basis of future expectations. It just won't fly. If we have to have the stadium before moving up I don't think we'll ever move up. It is going to have to be contingent on the move actually happening.
That's a tough place to be in for us. We are NOT funded in any way by the city. We are a state school, but we have only recently formed our own Board of Regents separate from all the other schools in the state. That has given us some flexibility we haven't had in the past. Things are possible now that were not before. We'll see what happens.
I’m not saying it’s Memphis’ fault, on the contrary. I believe Memphis should have been voted into the SWC in the 90’s.
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09-16-2021 02:11 PM |
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ArmoredUpKnight
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
Dennis Dodd article confirms Big12 targeting PAC teams.
Boise State, Memphis, and the other AAC programs are not on the Big12 radar.
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09-16-2021 02:12 PM |
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Huan
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 02:12 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote: Dennis Dodd article confirms Big12 targeting PAC teams.
Boise State, Memphis, and the other AAC programs are not on the Big12 radar.
Link?
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2021 02:16 PM by Huan.)
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09-16-2021 02:16 PM |
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Claw
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RE: Boise and Memphis still on Big 12 radar?
(09-16-2021 02:11 PM)esayem Wrote: (09-16-2021 02:03 PM)Claw Wrote: (09-16-2021 01:20 PM)esayem Wrote: I have to think Colorado State is ahead of Boise at this point.
All Big XII schools have on-campus stadiums. IMO, this hurts USF and Memphis. The Big XII is very much an old school “college conference”.
Memphis' President revived on-campus stadium talk just this week much like USF did. So apparently it does matter.
A little Memphis city history is in order.
Memphis did millions of expansions and upgrades to Liberty Bowl stadium in order to land an NFL team that never came. Had they waited and built a new stadium instead, they would probably have gotten a team.
Then Memphis built the Pyramid expecting to land an NBA franchise. When we did get one, it was contingent on building a new arena. That is why we have FedEx Forum.
So the populace has been burned twice by building something in anticipation of its future use.
Politically, it is virtually impossible to build something today on the basis of future expectations. It just won't fly. If we have to have the stadium before moving up I don't think we'll ever move up. It is going to have to be contingent on the move actually happening.
That's a tough place to be in for us. We are NOT funded in any way by the city. We are a state school, but we have only recently formed our own Board of Regents separate from all the other schools in the state. That has given us some flexibility we haven't had in the past. Things are possible now that were not before. We'll see what happens.
I’m not saying it’s Memphis’ fault, on the contrary. I believe Memphis should have been voted into the SWC in the 90’s.
Thank you. This is the kind of backstory that people on this forum would like to know that you don't get from the press.
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09-16-2021 02:30 PM |
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