(09-15-2021 09:00 AM)freshtop Wrote:  I know I am biased, but I think ESPN would offer a very mild increase to the per team payout to add WKU to the MAC if that becomes an option. We seem to draw respectable ratings (usually known for a high powered passing offense, people like watching high scoring games), and our basketball rights are usually worth a little as well (usually have some marquee home games in OOC). Probably not enough to offset splitting CFB Playoff payouts, but enough to at least warrant a discussion.

oh i agree with this 100% i was bummed when WKU did not come to the MAC, maybe someday lol

https://theathletic.com/2826426/2021/09/...roup-of-5/

If you have Athletic you can read this. This writer does not see any MAC programs moving because of the tremendous subsidies that most of the school athletic programs have to stay afloat

(09-15-2021 01:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 12:53 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 09:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 09:04 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The MAC taking in a 2-4 CUSA schools to kill off CUSA is totally different than having to accept UConn/UMass FB only, even if the CUSA schools may move on in a few years.

Sure is. Taking UConn/UMass FB-only on the tems of the old Temple/UMass FB deal would bring benefits to Kent State, while raiding CUSA for two or four footloose schools looking for a safe port in the storm and then looking at how they can move on as fast as possible is just more mouths to feed from the same ESPN money.

Where is someone like MT going to go at that point Bruce?

"At that point" is lifting a lot of weight ... it's a scenario based on a foundation of rumor and speculation with no solid reporting, with some pieces long odds and no piece any better than a coin toss, so the combined probability of it happening is fairly low.

But if the worst case for CUSA is being raided for four by the AAC, and Marshall, ODU and one more school plus JMU going to a 14/16 SBC, CUSA is down to seven, and they add NMSU and are at eight full time members. So at that point allocating CUSA schools to the MAC is not about serving any need of the MAC, it's about making a worst-than-worst case scenario because a conference collapsing is more dramatic and drama is more fun.

Quote: ESPN money I believe would negotiate up as the MAC is at the end of its contract.

But WHY would it "negotiate up" on a per school basis? It doesn't substantially change the value of MACtion, it doesn't make the MAC a sometime NCAA at-large conference. Where is the value add? You believing it because you enjoy imagining surprisiing conference realignment scenarios is not going to get the MAC Presidents on board.

In case you haven't been paying attention to WKU/MT they recruit in basketball at a level well beyond most programs and would contend for the MAC basketball title. They are the only combo potentially available to the MAC that could raise the bar in basketball.

AAC (Rice, UNT, UAB, Charlotte)
CUSA (USM, Marshall, ODU, JMU)
MWC (UTEP, UTSA)

That would leave CUSA with 5 (LaTech, WKU, MT, FAU, FIU) without a decent FCS upgrade available. MAC could take 4 of the 5 and effectively close out the conference.

It reduces the number of FBS conferences from 10 to 9 and that in of itself is more leverage.

With the money the MWC is received in its last renegotiation (currently $42 million) up from $19 million the marketplace for a G5 deal moving forward is in the $3 to $4 million range most likely anyways. Adding WKU might push the MAC deal toward the higher end of the options.

The question I would ask is would adding WKU make it a better basketball conference? I'd argue it would enough to make the addition worthwhile.

(09-15-2021 09:51 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 09:00 AM)freshtop Wrote:  I know I am biased, but I think ESPN would offer a very mild increase to the per team payout to add WKU to the MAC if that becomes an option. We seem to draw respectable ratings (usually known for a high powered passing offense, people like watching high scoring games), and our basketball rights are usually worth a little as well (usually have some marquee home games in OOC). Probably not enough to offset splitting CFB Playoff payouts, but enough to at least warrant a discussion.

oh i agree with this 100% i was bummed when WKU did not come to the MAC, maybe someday lol

I was skeptical at the time as I wanted the MAC to go East but now I think being a force in the Midwest is a better option.

Going to 14 with Illinois St and WKU would elevate MAC basketball. Higher NET ratings for its champion, better seeds in the NCAA/NIT. Might just push the MAC over the line to become par with the MVC in regards to NCAA/NIT.

With regards to the Dakota additions I didn't see how they could move up the football enough to make it worth while. MAC FB post season access won't change with the Dakota schools. G5 ball is G5 ball unless you have multiple P5 candidates like the AAC had.

Basketball is more responsive to conference strength. Higher seeds for its top teams.

If the MWC/SBC are moving to 14+ the per school money split is kind of moot since all the money split rules will be changed in the CFP with everyone having larger membership. This is my thought if CUSA is carved up, the MAC might as well jump in if it can get WKU, MT or Charlotte to help in basketball.

(09-12-2021 08:57 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Of course you could invite NDSU and UMass as FB only. Would limit the impact of travel and NDSU is good. Hopefully Bell and company are turning UMass around from the despair of the 2019. This showed we have a heart beat and worth watching.

Why not bring NDSU, SDSU, and Montana? Personally, I believe Montana could go to the Mountain West and have success in two to three years. That place as an FBS School would be fun to watch.

(09-15-2021 12:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  That would leave CUSA with 5 (LaTech, WKU, MT, FAU, FIU) without a decent FCS upgrade available. MAC could take 4 of the 5 and effectively close out the conference.

I don't see how this would help the MAC.

(09-15-2021 02:16 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:57 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Of course you could invite NDSU and UMass as FB only. Would limit the impact of travel and NDSU is good. Hopefully Bell and company are turning UMass around from the despair of the 2019. This showed we have a heart beat and worth watching.

Why not bring NDSU, SDSU, and Montana? Personally, I believe Montana could go to the Mountain West and have success in two to three years. That place as an FBS School would be fun to watch.

yes, would love the Grizz in the MAC along with the NDSU and SDSU

(09-15-2021 01:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 09:51 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 09:00 AM)freshtop Wrote:  I know I am biased, but I think ESPN would offer a very mild increase to the per team payout to add WKU to the MAC if that becomes an option. We seem to draw respectable ratings (usually known for a high powered passing offense, people like watching high scoring games), and our basketball rights are usually worth a little as well (usually have some marquee home games in OOC). Probably not enough to offset splitting CFB Playoff payouts, but enough to at least warrant a discussion.

oh i agree with this 100% i was bummed when WKU did not come to the MAC, maybe someday lol

I was skeptical at the time as I wanted the MAC to go East but now I think being a force in the Midwest is a better option.

Going to 14 with Illinois St and WKU would elevate MAC basketball. Higher NET ratings for its champion, better seeds in the NCAA/NIT. Might just push the MAC over the line to become par with the MVC in regards to NCAA/NIT.

With regards to the Dakota additions I didn't see how they could move up the football enough to make it worth while. MAC FB post season access won't change with the Dakota schools. G5 ball is G5 ball unless you have multiple P5 candidates like the AAC had.

Basketball is more responsive to conference strength. Higher seeds for its top teams.

If the MWC/SBC are moving to 14+ the per school money split is kind of moot since all the money split rules will be changed in the CFP with everyone having larger membership. This is my thought if CUSA is carved up, the MAC might as well jump in if it can get WKU, MT or Charlotte to help in basketball.

great points i just dont think Ill St is ready to jump to FBS football. I think the dakota schools and montana bring name recognition, i think would help some in the attendance dept, and i think bring more tv dollars then an Ill St would. I am a big fan of WKU though, i like them a lot, was bummed when they landed in USA and not MAC

(09-15-2021 03:17 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 01:07 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 09:51 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 09:00 AM)freshtop Wrote:  I know I am biased, but I think ESPN would offer a very mild increase to the per team payout to add WKU to the MAC if that becomes an option. We seem to draw respectable ratings (usually known for a high powered passing offense, people like watching high scoring games), and our basketball rights are usually worth a little as well (usually have some marquee home games in OOC). Probably not enough to offset splitting CFB Playoff payouts, but enough to at least warrant a discussion.

oh i agree with this 100% i was bummed when WKU did not come to the MAC, maybe someday lol

I was skeptical at the time as I wanted the MAC to go East but now I think being a force in the Midwest is a better option.

Going to 14 with Illinois St and WKU would elevate MAC basketball. Higher NET ratings for its champion, better seeds in the NCAA/NIT. Might just push the MAC over the line to become par with the MVC in regards to NCAA/NIT.

With regards to the Dakota additions I didn't see how they could move up the football enough to make it worth while. MAC FB post season access won't change with the Dakota schools. G5 ball is G5 ball unless you have multiple P5 candidates like the AAC had.

Basketball is more responsive to conference strength. Higher seeds for its top teams.

If the MWC/SBC are moving to 14+ the per school money split is kind of moot since all the money split rules will be changed in the CFP with everyone having larger membership. This is my thought if CUSA is carved up, the MAC might as well jump in if it can get WKU, MT or Charlotte to help in basketball.

great points i just dont think Ill St is ready to jump to FBS football. I think the dakota schools and montana bring name recognition, i think would help some in the attendance dept, and i think bring more tv dollars then an Ill St would. I am a big fan of WKU though, i like them a lot, was bummed when they landed in USA and not MAC

A school's home attendance is nice to have but not a primary factor when selecting teams. Unless that attendance is significant like 60k.

WKU has been in the SBC before so they won't want to return there with their tail between their legs. Marshall has done MAC/CUSA so going to the SBC is alright with them.

(09-15-2021 09:00 AM)freshtop Wrote:  I know I am biased, but I think ESPN would offer a very mild increase to the per team payout to add WKU to the MAC if that becomes an option. We seem to draw respectable ratings (usually known for a high powered passing offense, people like watching high scoring games), and our basketball rights are usually worth a little as well (usually have some marquee home games in OOC).

I don't see the pair including WKU that increases the value of #MACtion games by 20%+. It is the same number of midweek games, after all ... the extra games in the November inventory are Saturday games.

Maybe an improvement in the value of MAC MBB, but that would not be enough to make a pro-rata increase in the value of the contract for a single bid conference.

Quote: Probably not enough to offset splitting CFB Playoff payouts, but enough to at least warrant a discussion.

So I expect it would be a drop in direct media contract money per school even before splitting the CFP money.

(09-15-2021 03:08 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(09-15-2021 02:16 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:57 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Of course you could invite NDSU and UMass as FB only. Would limit the impact of travel and NDSU is good. Hopefully Bell and company are turning UMass around from the despair of the 2019. This showed we have a heart beat and worth watching.

Why not bring NDSU, SDSU, and Montana? Personally, I believe Montana could go to the Mountain West and have success in two to three years. That place as an FBS School would be fun to watch.

yes, would love the Grizz in the MAC along with the NDSU and SDSU

If the MAC could make it work, it might be a savvy move to add a 3- or 4-school northwestern pod, including those 3 schools, perhaps as FB-only members.

If the MAC doesn't grab them, the MWC, AAC, or CUSA might.

Updates 9/16:

-Texas and Oklahoma have accepted SEC invitation to join for July 1st 2015.
-B1G/PAC/ACC have formed a scheduling alliance for 1H/1A in non-con FB schedules.
-The PAC has announced as of 8/26 they will not be expanding.
-XII invites were accepted by BYU, UC, UCF and Houston on 9/10.
-BYU, UC, UCF and Houston will be joining the XII no later that July 1st 2014.
-XII may briefly be at 14 schools and stay there with Boise, SMU, USF, Memphis targets.
-The AAC is looking at a 10 or 12 team expansion initially with 16 possible eventually.
-AAC has UAB as a top candidate with Boise, AFA, CSU, SDSU to hopefully go 12.
-If the AAC can't go west they may stop at 10 with FAU/UTSA as the 10th.
-MWC is has a counter offer out to UNT/Tulsa to join.
-Marshall said its done with CUSA and if no AAC will go to the SBC.
-JMU has reached out to multiple conferences with regard to expansion.
-SBC rumor they will expand with 4 (USM, Marshall, ODU and JMU).

MWC-AAC are in a tug of war at the moment. MWC could go to 14 with UNT, Tulsa and offer stability. AAC wants to go the other direction and try to take Boise and AFA from the MWC.

MWC (UNT, Tulsa)
AAC (UTSA, UAB, FAU)

CUSA at that point is then at 10 members. Could they just add JMU and App St to keep the conference together?

CUSA East (Marshall, JMU, ODU, App St, Charlotte, FIU)
CUSA West (WKU, MT, LaTech, SoMiss, Rice, UTEP)

Make it more regional for Marshall and App St to keep themselves happy.

UNT on the B list to go with FAU and UTSA.

AAC may go to 12 with UNT/UTSA, UAB and FAU.

Doubling down in Texas to keep UNT/UTSA away from the MWC.

AAC future lineup?

West: UTSA, UNT, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy
East: Memphis, UAB, USF, FAU, ECU, Tulane

CUSA carve up?

AAC (UTSA, UNT, UAB, FAU)
SBC (USM, Marshall, ODU, JMU)
MAC (WKU, MT, UNCC, FIU)
MWC (UTEP, Rice)

(09-16-2021 06:14 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Updates 9/16:

-Texas and Oklahoma have accepted SEC invitation to join for July 1st 2015.
-B1G/PAC/ACC have formed a scheduling alliance for 1H/1A in non-con FB schedules.
-The PAC has announced as of 8/26 they will not be expanding.
-XII invites were accepted by BYU, UC, UCF and Houston on 9/10.
-BYU, UC, UCF and Houston will be joining the XII no later that July 1st 2014.
-XII may briefly be at 14 schools and stay there with Boise, SMU, USF, Memphis targets.
-The AAC is looking at a 10 or 12 team expansion initially with 16 possible eventually.
-AAC has UAB as a top candidate with Boise, AFA, CSU, SDSU to hopefully go 12.
-If the AAC can't go west they may stop at 10 with FAU/UTSA as the 10th.
-MWC is has a counter offer out to UNT/Tulsa to join.
-Marshall said its done with CUSA and if no AAC will go to the SBC.
-JMU has reached out to multiple conferences with regard to expansion.
-SBC rumor they will expand with 4 (USM, Marshall, ODU and JMU).

MWC-AAC are in a tug of war at the moment. MWC could go to 14 with UNT, Tulsa and offer stability. AAC wants to go the other direction and try to take Boise and AFA from the MWC.

MWC (UNT, Tulsa)
AAC (UTSA, UAB, FAU)

CUSA at that point is then at 10 members. Could they just add JMU and App St to keep the conference together?

CUSA East (Marshall, JMU, ODU, App St, Charlotte, FIU)
CUSA West (WKU, MT, LaTech, SoMiss, Rice, UTEP)

Make it more regional for Marshall and App St to keep themselves happy.

App St. wants no part of CUSA.

(09-16-2021 08:19 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

UNT on the B list to go with FAU and UTSA.

AAC may go to 12 with UNT/UTSA, UAB and FAU.

Doubling down in Texas to keep UNT/UTSA away from the MWC.

I found this article from July to be very interesting and prophetic:


https://www.coloradoan.com/story/sports/...404486001/

Also, while it has not been confirmed, there is talk that officials from CSU-Fort Collins are meeting with AAC officials next week.

(09-15-2021 02:16 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  Why not bring NDSU, SDSU, and Montana? Personally, I believe Montana could go to the Mountain West and have success in two to three years. That place as an FBS School would be fun to watch.

Montana!?!?!?!?!?!

That is way, way too far west! That would be another Idaho in the Sunbelt Situation.......

(09-15-2021 02:16 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  Why not bring NDSU, SDSU, and Montana? Personally, I believe Montana could go to the Mountain West and have success in two to three years. That place as an FBS School would be fun to watch.

Montana!?!?!?!?!?!

That is way, way too far west! That would be another Idaho in the Sunbelt Situation.......

Know the MAC does not like FB only and an unbalanced schedule but will say it anyways since feel the MAC would be way better than a CUSA FB only.

Inquire to UMass a basically no money deal for the first 3 years until the next media contract and then you will know the x value. So here it is, UMass pays 50% MAC dues of 100K and the MAC pays UMass 100k, a money wash. UMass gains a conference home and the MAC gains a slightly expanded footprint. While it is a hassle to have an unbalance schedule, it gives the MAC some options if a team ever leaves or there is a high desirable team the MAC wants. Would add a clause if UMass finishes in the top 1/3 of the MAC standings, it would receive a 10% share as it would help the MAC in the performance base part of the CFP money. Don't think UMass would ever have an interest in leaving but also had a steep termination clause.

Since we are hosting two teams from the Western Division, will be interesting what fans impressions are from EMU and Toledo. Idk why the IPF bubble was down for the BC game except it's great weather and the games are out doors.

Note: We all sit on the none TV side, which is a change from our MAC days. The fans did not like being in the sun and the other side is the traditional home side.

Quote:

Quote:Thompson wouldn’t say which two are most apt to entertain the AAC’s advances, but several sources inside and outside the conference confirmed they are Air Force and Colorado State — and not San Diego State or Boise State, which seem content to stay in the Mountain West and wait for another round of power conference expansion, most likely with the Big 12. Earlier this year, SDSU Athletic Director John David Wicker called a rumored move to the AAC a “nonstarter.”

Quote:“They have been told simply by the departure of those three schools, their average annual value drops to mid-$40 million,” Thompson said of the total AAC payout. “The Mountain West is $40 million. It’s a push. So you’re not going there for TV money. What are you going there for?

Quote:“I don’t know where it will end up,” he said. “We’ve got people in our league who feel we could survive as a 10-team league. We’ve got people who say the best solution is just the 12 of us binding together and we’re going to be wonderfully fine. And there are others who say, ‘Oh, we need to prepare if we lose some people to be back at the 12 number.’ And some who think we’d better with 14.

“But you can go down the list of eligible institutions and say, ‘You pick the two best programs top to bottom and let’s pursue them.’ One, I don’t know if they’d be interested. Two, do they make our collective product better? … There’s nothing wrong with a 10-team conference. The Big 12 did it for years. Are you just going to add people to add people?”

Quote:The other factor is exit fees. Central Florida, Cincinnati and Houston are each on the hook for $10 million if they give 27 months’ notice, and even more if they negotiate an earlier departure to join the Big 12 with BYU in 2023-24.

The Mountain West requires only 12 months’ notice but three times the previous year’s conference payout from the TV contract, sponsorships and NCAA Tournament distributions. That totals about $12.5 million. If there’s less than a year notice, it doubles.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo...rado-state

Good quotes in this article. It doesn't sound like Boise/SDSU are going to move to the AAC when the exit fees are so high.

CSU/AFA are showing more interest because travel is not quite the factor and the stronger academics. The AAC would be more than happy to get AFA and if adding CSU as a travel partner is what it would take they might do it.

Then if Aresco can get AFA it places pressure on Army to join a conference with the other two service academies. Army also has to consider the CFP payout it would leave on the table by not being part of a conference.

MWC could operate just fine as a 10 team conference. Having no membership in Colorado is going to be awkward but they'll survive.

Then will it be CSU, AFA, UAB and Army to the AAC? That isn't a very strong FB conference but checks the boxes for the TV money. The next 3 in sound like it will be UNT, UTSA, FAU.

Then if the SBC raid plays out and they take Marshall, USM, ODU/JMU that puts CUSA at an even 10 members because all they would have lost is UAB, USM, Marshall and ODU. But 3 more UNT, UTSA and FAU would have their eyes on the AAC should Memphis leave, official infill members.