The only thing this likely really does for the ACC is lay the groundwork for 10+ years out for a change of direction that ESPN might not want.

It's theoretically possible that the ACC has a sneaky play where they can threaten ESPN and the SEC's wishes (and maybe ND's) on playoff format, and extract something out of ESPN to turn heel on PAC and B1G. My understanding is that the playoff decision needs to be unanimous anyway, so I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

What I think this potentially does is take the first step toward the B1G, ACC and PAC pooling their media rights in the 2030s. I think that there's a perception that the SEC and ESPN are working toward positioning the SEC as essentially the "major leagues" or Power 1 conference, and theoretically the counter would be "three conferences in one" that stretch coast to coast, and operate and negotiate as one unit. The first step to countering that is to wait out the ESPN window of exclusivity on the playoffs before expanding, with the idea that FOX or CBS having skin in the playoff game is preferable to having the playoff a wholly owned subsidiary of the same entity who is supporting the elevation of the SEC to lone elite status. That's the only near term tangible play by the alliance.

As for the ACC...about 10-11 years from now, it could start getting interesting. When you start getting 4-5 years out from the end of the ACC deal, if the Alliance is still a thing, ESPN is going to have to think about how much it's worth to avoid the scenario of the Alliance going to market as one unit.

Personally, I think the chances of the Alliance amounting to anything much are pretty small, and will probably fade away long before ESPN even has to think about it. But it's at least the first small baby steps of the ACC flashing some willingness of independence of ESPN, something the previous ACC administration wouldn't countenance at all, going back decades.

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

It's not a bluff. ESPN's ownership of the CFB Playoff wasn't handed down on stone tablets next to a bush set afire by lightning with threats from a booming voice in the sky. ESPN doesn't want it to go to open market because they would HAVE to pay more for it and they would likely lose total exclusivity. By joining Team Fox over there in the Pac-12 and the B1G the message delivered can be made perfectly clear: Pay up bigly in the look-in window or pay up bigly on the CFB playoff in 2 years.

And if Jim Phillips truly is a Jim Delaney protege, he needs to be sharpening a knife he can stick into ESPN's back when the time is right. Every ACC school paid $10m to build out their own on campus production studios with wiring to every sports facility. The ACC schools built these facilities. The ACC schools staff these facilities. The ACC schools cover all operational costs associated with these facilities. ESPN simply broadcasts the resulting fee and takes 50% of the profits. If you already own the entirety of production from tech to staffing .... what is there to stop you from just going direct to the consumer when cable TV implodes and keeping all the money for yourself?

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Jim Phillips will lose a lot of authority if he allows the Alliance to become an anti-SEC or anti-ESPN force. He needs to ensure that the Alliance is providing a positive vision for college athletics.

That is his most effective leverage to get cash from ESPN and I hope he at least makes ESPN afraid of it.

But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

(08-26-2021 11:03 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The only thing this likely really does for the ACC is lay the groundwork for 10+ years out for a change of direction that ESPN might not want.

It's theoretically possible that the ACC has a sneaky play where they can threaten ESPN and the SEC's wishes (and maybe ND's) on playoff format, and extract something out of ESPN to turn heel on PAC and B1G. My understanding is that the playoff decision needs to be unanimous anyway, so I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

What I think this potentially does is take the first step toward the B1G, ACC and PAC pooling their media rights in the 2030s. I think that there's a perception that the SEC and ESPN are working toward positioning the SEC as essentially the "major leagues" or Power 1 conference, and theoretically the counter would be "three conferences in one" that stretch coast to coast, and operate and negotiate as one unit. The first step to countering that is to wait out the ESPN window of exclusivity on the playoffs before expanding, with the idea that FOX or CBS having skin in the playoff game is preferable to having the playoff a wholly owned subsidiary of the same entity who is supporting the elevation of the SEC to lone elite status. That's the only near term tangible play by the alliance.

As for the ACC...about 10-11 years from now, it could start getting interesting. When you start getting 4-5 years out from the end of the ACC deal, if the Alliance is still a thing, ESPN is going to have to think about how much it's worth to avoid the scenario of the Alliance going to market as one unit.

Personally, I think the chances of the Alliance amounting to anything much are pretty small, and will probably fade away long before ESPN even has to think about it. But it's at least the first small baby steps of the ACC flashing some willingness of independence of ESPN, something the previous ACC administration wouldn't countenance at all, going back decades.

Don't hold your breath. The SEC/B1G and few other schools with $ are not going to do this. It's nice to hope, but I don't see it.

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Jim Phillips will lose a lot of authority if he allows the Alliance to become an anti-SEC or anti-ESPN force. He needs to ensure that the Alliance is providing a positive vision for college athletics.

That is his most effective leverage to get cash from ESPN and I hope he at least makes ESPN afraid of it.

But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Kevin White has already retired.

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:31 AM)ken d Wrote:  In the four years from 2021-25, the ACC has scheduled 99 games against opponents either in the P5 or in the case of BYU and three AAC teams with a decent chance of joining a P5 Big 12 by 2015 (Cincinnati, UCF and USF). There could be more, as several teams aren't yet fully scheduled.

By conference, that breaks down to:

SEC........38
B1G........20
ND..........19
AAC/BYU..13
B12..........8
PAC..........1

Frankly, I don't see this Alliance changing that very much.

Conspicuous by their absence on this list are two teams the ACC should be playing, IMO -- Penn State and Auburn.

To the extent that it brings Big Ten teams to ACC stadiums, it's a good thing.
Virginia Tech has lost out on visits from Penn State (2020), Michigan (cancelled), and Wisconsin (postponed)

A scheduling arrangement with the B1G would be great for the ACC. Currently, the B1G has few openings for OOC games. It would be a means of enhancing the schedules of Pitt, BC and Syracuse (and ND) with traditional opponents. Tobacco Road schools, as well as VT and Louisville, also compete frequently enough against B1G schools. I actually believe that the ACC will be pushing harder than the B1G to grow the number of games scheduled.

(08-26-2021 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  That is his most effective leverage to get cash from ESPN and I hope he at least makes ESPN afraid of it.

But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Kevin White has already retired.

Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 12:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Jim Phillips will lose a lot of authority if he allows the Alliance to become an anti-SEC or anti-ESPN force. He needs to ensure that the Alliance is providing a positive vision for college athletics.

That is his most effective leverage to get cash from ESPN and I hope he at least makes ESPN afraid of it.

But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Done. Nina King is now AD at Duke.

(08-26-2021 12:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  But that would be a bluff, and both ESPN and the SEC know it. To be effective, your opponent has to believe there's a good chance that you are NOT bluffing.

Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Kevin White has already retired.

Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

Here is her bio:

Born October 3, 1978 in Tampa, Fla., King received her bachelor’s degree in accountancy from the University of Notre Dame in 2000 where she served as a student manager and eventually the head manager for the women's swimming and diving program, and her juris doctor degree from Tulane Law School in 2005. She served internships in the Notre Dame Athletics Department, NCAA and Nike, Inc.

Prior to joining Duke University, King served as the Director of Rules Education in the Notre Dame Athletics Department from 2005-08.

King is a member of Women Leaders in College Sports, Sports Lawyers Association, University of Notre Dame National Monogram Club and the Florida Bar Association. Additionally, King serves on the Arizona State University College of Law Sports Law and Business Program Advisory Board as well as the Durham Academy Board of Trustees.

(08-26-2021 12:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Why is it a bluff? There are many things the ACC can and probably will do, such as:
Schedule a lot of neutral site games and sell them to Fox
Refuse to agree to an expansion of the college football playoffs without a cap on the number of teams that can come from one conference
Tell the SEC and ESPN that the three conferences will withdraw from the existing playoffs altogether in favor of their own playoffs unless the SEC agrees to limits that preserve the “collegiate model.”

Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Kevin White has already retired.

Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

Here is her bio:

Born October 3, 1978 in Tampa, Fla., King received her bachelor’s degree in accountancy from the University of Notre Dame in 2000 where she served as a student manager and eventually the head manager for the women's swimming and diving program, and her juris doctor degree from Tulane Law School in 2005. She served internships in the Notre Dame Athletics Department, NCAA and Nike, Inc.

Prior to joining Duke University, King served as the Director of Rules Education in the Notre Dame Athletics Department from 2005-08.

King is a member of Women Leaders in College Sports, Sports Lawyers Association, University of Notre Dame National Monogram Club and the Florida Bar Association. Additionally, King serves on the Arizona State University College of Law Sports Law and Business Program Advisory Board as well as the Durham Academy Board of Trustees.

Way too many Notre Dame people.

(08-26-2021 02:05 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:13 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Can you go replace Kevin White for me? You seem to understand these things better than everybody else in Durham. We need somebody with some sharp knives and no scruples about using them in charge of the ACC and its institutions right now.

Kevin White has already retired.

Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

Here is her bio:

Born October 3, 1978 in Tampa, Fla., King received her bachelor’s degree in accountancy from the University of Notre Dame in 2000 where she served as a student manager and eventually the head manager for the women's swimming and diving program, and her juris doctor degree from Tulane Law School in 2005. She served internships in the Notre Dame Athletics Department, NCAA and Nike, Inc.

Prior to joining Duke University, King served as the Director of Rules Education in the Notre Dame Athletics Department from 2005-08.

King is a member of Women Leaders in College Sports, Sports Lawyers Association, University of Notre Dame National Monogram Club and the Florida Bar Association. Additionally, King serves on the Arizona State University College of Law Sports Law and Business Program Advisory Board as well as the Durham Academy Board of Trustees.

Way too many Notre Dame people.

Did Carolina pass a law that athletics administrators must have a rotation in South Bend? First UNC, then NC State and the ACC, now Duke.

(08-26-2021 02:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 02:05 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  Kevin White has already retired.

Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

Here is her bio:

Born October 3, 1978 in Tampa, Fla., King received her bachelor’s degree in accountancy from the University of Notre Dame in 2000 where she served as a student manager and eventually the head manager for the women's swimming and diving program, and her juris doctor degree from Tulane Law School in 2005. She served internships in the Notre Dame Athletics Department, NCAA and Nike, Inc.

Prior to joining Duke University, King served as the Director of Rules Education in the Notre Dame Athletics Department from 2005-08.

King is a member of Women Leaders in College Sports, Sports Lawyers Association, University of Notre Dame National Monogram Club and the Florida Bar Association. Additionally, King serves on the Arizona State University College of Law Sports Law and Business Program Advisory Board as well as the Durham Academy Board of Trustees.

Way too many Notre Dame people.

Did Carolina pass a law that athletics administrators must have a rotation in South Bend? First UNC, then NC State and the ACC, now Duke.

Maybe this is the ACC's attempt at herd immunity to Notre Dame. Everyone must be exposed! Only then will people quit expecting the full load of the Irish.

(08-26-2021 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 02:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 02:05 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Oh yeah, Duke replaced him with that new broad. Well, clearly she didn't play football. That didn't stop Lou Holtz or Paul Johnson, though. Maybe she can succeed where Kevin White spectacularly failed.

Here is her bio:

Born October 3, 1978 in Tampa, Fla., King received her bachelor’s degree in accountancy from the University of Notre Dame in 2000 where she served as a student manager and eventually the head manager for the women's swimming and diving program, and her juris doctor degree from Tulane Law School in 2005. She served internships in the Notre Dame Athletics Department, NCAA and Nike, Inc.

Prior to joining Duke University, King served as the Director of Rules Education in the Notre Dame Athletics Department from 2005-08.

King is a member of Women Leaders in College Sports, Sports Lawyers Association, University of Notre Dame National Monogram Club and the Florida Bar Association. Additionally, King serves on the Arizona State University College of Law Sports Law and Business Program Advisory Board as well as the Durham Academy Board of Trustees.

Way too many Notre Dame people.

Did Carolina pass a law that athletics administrators must have a rotation in South Bend? First UNC, then NC State and the ACC, now Duke.

Maybe this is the ACC's attempt at herd immunity to Notre Dame. Everyone must be exposed! Only then will people quit expecting the full load of the Irish.

It's Gene Corrigan's fault.

(08-26-2021 11:45 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:31 AM)ken d Wrote:  In the four years from 2021-25, the ACC has scheduled 99 games against opponents either in the P5 or in the case of BYU and three AAC teams with a decent chance of joining a P5 Big 12 by 2015 (Cincinnati, UCF and USF). There could be more, as several teams aren't yet fully scheduled.

By conference, that breaks down to:

SEC........38
B1G........20
ND..........19
AAC/BYU..13
B12..........8
PAC..........1

Frankly, I don't see this Alliance changing that very much.

Conspicuous by their absence on this list are two teams the ACC should be playing, IMO -- Penn State and Auburn.

To the extent that it brings Big Ten teams to ACC stadiums, it's a good thing.
Virginia Tech has lost out on visits from Penn State (2020), Michigan (cancelled), and Wisconsin (postponed)

A scheduling arrangement with the B1G would be great for the ACC. Currently, the B1G has few openings for OOC games. It would be a means of enhancing the schedules of Pitt, BC and Syracuse (and ND) with traditional opponents. Tobacco Road schools, as well as VT and Louisville, also compete frequently enough against B1G schools. I actually believe that the ACC will be pushing harder than the B1G to grow the number of games scheduled.

Until 2025, the only one of the top five B1G programs to schedule an ACC team is Michigan State which has a home + home with BC in 2024-5.

Beyond that, Ohio State has a H+H with BC (2026-7), and Wisconsin has two - Pitt in 2026-7 and Virginia Tech in 2031-2.

The B1G gives the ACC about five games a year from 2022-5, but it's not the big names from either the B1G or the ACC that are involved. What there is won't help either conference with ratings. But that's not on the B1G alone. I think the top brands in the ACC would prefer to play their counterparts in the SEC. I don't believe the Alliance will change that much, if at all.

The B1G and the PAC only have three OOC games per school to play with every year. If they are going to increase the number of Alliance matchups, something has to give - and that's losing the seventh home game every other year. ADs are not going to be happy about that. For that reason, I wouldn't be completely surprised if the P5 take another page out of the NFL playbook and try to increase the number of regular season games to 13 by starting the season in Week Zero (students are back in school by then anyway for most universities). But, unlike the NFL, they don't have any preseason exhibitions they can eliminate to make it happen.

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

(08-29-2021 04:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

And yet Kliakoff has essentially apologized to Sankey saying that any commissioner would have taken OU and UT and kept quiet about it. And suggested perhaps the PAC could benefit in future scheduling with the ACC and is interested in that possibly soon to be open Sugar Bowl slot.

I'd say the so called alliance is merely convenient until better options are available. And since Finebaum announced the conversation a day before Wilner wrote about it ESPN must have already known. Hmm.

(08-29-2021 04:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

Not at all.

According to what's been stated, Notre Dame games will count as ACC. There are 12 Pac-12 teams, two of which play Notre Dame every year - that leaves 10.
If there are 10 Pac-vs-ACC games, that leaves 4 ACC teams w/o a Pac-12 partner.
Guess how many ACC/SEC rivalry games there are?

(08-29-2021 04:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

By having ND games count towards the Alliance commitment, the ACC can maintain the rivalry games. The ACC has more teams than the other conferences so they will always have teams with open dates.

(08-29-2021 07:06 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-29-2021 04:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

By having ND games count towards the Alliance commitment, the ACC can maintain the rivalry games. The ACC has more teams than the other conferences so they will always have teams with open dates.

fair enough

(08-29-2021 07:06 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-29-2021 04:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/pac-12-...-plan.html

Now it seems the goal is 2 Alliance games plus 8 conference games

Those SEC rivalry games are looking hard to retain

By having ND games count towards the Alliance commitment, the ACC can maintain the rivalry games. The ACC has more teams than the other conferences so they will always have teams with open dates.

The B1G also has 14 teams, just like the ACC.