(08-26-2021 08:45 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The Big12 has brought in Oliver Luck as a consultant. This is a very experienced athletic administrator that knows how to work the system and get things done.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/col...97578.html

I predict Luck is the next Big 12 Commissioner.

"Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby is considering various options for the league to pursue at this point. He met with Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff about a possible merger/scheduling alliance, but the Pac-12 is expected to form an alliance with the ACC and Big Ten in the coming days."

"At a Texas Senate meeting earlier this month, Bowlsby said he had not reached out to any prospective schools about joining the conference. It’s unclear if that has changed in the weeks since."

That is not the messaging to be delivering to the Texas Senate and others. If one is really considering various options, then talk to prospects/schools of interest to know what is available and realistic.

Obviously something has changed in the last few days if the UCF story has verifiable substance. Somebody is making initiatives now.

(08-26-2021 09:05 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  "Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby is considering various options for the league to pursue at this point.He met with Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff about a possible merger/scheduling alliance, but the Pac-12 is expected to form an alliance with the ACC and Big Ten in the coming days."

"At a Texas Senate meeting earlier this month, Bowlsby said he had not reached out to any prospective schools about joining the conference. It’s unclear if that has changed in the weeks since."

That is not the messaging to be delivering to the Texas Senate and others. If one is really considering various options, then talk to prospects/schools of interest to know what is available and realistic.

To be sure, it's a lawyerly answer.

From a legal perspective, Bowlsby/Big 12 shouldn't reaching out to prospective schools. That could give rise to a tortious interference claim.

That's why everyone in conference realignment takes pains to state that the prospective schools are the ones reaching out to the new conference as opposed to the other way around.

(08-26-2021 08:50 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 08:45 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The Big12 has brought in Oliver Luck as a consultant. This is a very experienced athletic administrator that knows how to work the system and get things done.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/col...97578.html

I predict Luck is the next Big 12 Commissioner.

I think so as well.

(08-26-2021 09:10 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 09:05 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  "Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby is considering various options for the league to pursue at this point.He met with Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff about a possible merger/scheduling alliance, but the Pac-12 is expected to form an alliance with the ACC and Big Ten in the coming days."

"At a Texas Senate meeting earlier this month, Bowlsby said he had not reached out to any prospective schools about joining the conference. It’s unclear if that has changed in the weeks since."

That is not the messaging to be delivering to the Texas Senate and others. If one is really considering various options, then talk to prospects/schools of interest to know what is available and realistic.

To be sure, it's a lawyerly answer.

From a legal perspective, Bowlsby/Big 12 shouldn't reaching out to prospective schools. That could give rise to a tortious interference claim.

That's why everyone in conference realignment takes pains to state that the prospective schools are the ones reaching out to the new conference as opposed to the other way around.

Formally, yes. Other unspoken channels, they are there.

The SEC certainly had a messaging methodology with OU and UT. Easy to say OU and UT initiated it all.

(08-26-2021 08:50 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 08:45 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The Big12 has brought in Oliver Luck as a consultant. This is a very experienced athletic administrator that knows how to work the system and get things done.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/col...97578.html

I predict Luck is the next Big 12 Commissioner.

It certainly won’t be Bowlsby come 24-25’.

Reason that cease and desist letter to ESPN was from him personally. He’ll be gone before the new contract negotiations and bidding begins.

(08-25-2021 08:04 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 03:16 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 02:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  LOL .... I guess this is a way of explaining "if the L8 were pursuing UCF, why isn't UCF in the Big 12 right now"? Well, because UCF is weighing their options and being patient ...

To me, this beggars beliefs. If the L8 calls any AAC team, that team should take about 3 seconds before saying "yes". From where I sit, there is only upside to joining the Big 12, and zero downside.

Agree.

It's funny that he mentions the TCU/Boise scenario as a reason for caution buy TCU was able to parlay that invite into a Big 12 invite and Boise State was able to go back to the MWC with basically zero consequences.

As you said, zero downside.

Speaking of TCU and the Big East...

Makes me wonder if UCF thinks another Power league might come calling before long.

If the Big 12 sticks around then it's a good landing spot, but it might not be the best landing spot given its instability.

I'm sure they view the ACC and of course the SEC as ideal. Crazier things have happened I guess, but it seems more likely we'd see a total paradigm shift like the P5 breaking away and aligning along regional lines before we saw them in one of those.

But the Big 12 would still be a huge step up and would get them a chance to make a bigger name for themselves (assuming they can keep winning of course).

(08-26-2021 08:12 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I really enjoy reading the hilarious revisionist history from USF fans pretending that they didn't wholeheartedly support keeping UCF out of the Big East back in the day. Nothing any of us say on this or any message board matters regarding what will happen in expansion, so just have the decency to admit you loved having the conference leg up on UCF, wanted nothing to do with being in a league with them, and know deep down they are going to be happy to return the favor and ditch you the second they get the chance.

I already said USF made a bad decision trying to keep UCF out of the Big East. Heck, UCF should have been added when USF was. But also remember, USF had only one vote, and if the other members wanted UCF back then, they would have been in. UCF has always had a lot of potential, even back then, but it was less apparent then (less time and success in FBS).

Looking back on it, USF should have advocated for UCF to be in Big East more. It was and still is better for both schools to be in the same conference. I actually believe most USF AND UCF supporters believe this.

(08-26-2021 08:21 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 04:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 04:15 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 04:07 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(08-25-2021 04:02 PM)Claw Wrote:  I still don't see UCF going without USF as well. We'll see I guess.

UCF can essentially cover both Tampa and Orlando with the amount of alumni in both areas, there’s not really a need to add both.

I could see UCF leaving USF behind in a heartbeat and probably prefer it that way.

No doubt. Those two schools aren't tied at the hip at all.

Technically true but if I'm a B12 member I don't want another WVU island situation for non-revenue sports travel. USF hasn't had the success that UCF has but they're still a well respected university in another booming FL city. I think having both would be in the best interest of the conference in the long run, especially for WVU and Cincinnati.

That sums up my thoughts quite well. Expenditures are just as valid a piece of the puzzle as TV contracts.

I see two schools as more attractive than one. It has nothing to do with the two schools being "tied at the hip". From a conference standpoint, it would be even better if they hate each other.

(08-26-2021 08:12 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I really enjoy reading the hilarious revisionist history from USF fans pretending that they didn't wholeheartedly support keeping UCF out of the Big East back in the day.

I hope you're not talking about me, because:

1) I loved it back in the 2000s when we were in the Big East and UCF wasn't.

2) In late 2011 I bit my tongue and didn't like it when UCF was invited to the Big East after we had been raided.

3) I would love it if USF was promoted to a P-conference and UCF wasn't. Would hate it if the opposite happened.

I stand by all that.

And I don't expect anything but the same (in reverse) from UCF fans.

(08-26-2021 10:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 08:12 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I really enjoy reading the hilarious revisionist history from USF fans pretending that they didn't wholeheartedly support keeping UCF out of the Big East back in the day.

I hope you're not talking about me, because:

1) I loved it back in the 2000s when we were in the Big East and UCF wasn't.

2) In late 2011 I bit my tongue and didn't like it when UCF was invited to the Big East after we had been raided.

3) I would love it if USF was promoted to a P-conference and UCF wasn't. Would hate it if the opposite happened.

I stand by all that.

And I don't expect anything but the same (in reverse) from UCF fans.

I want USF and UCF to be in the same conference, wherever that is. It's better, and more exciting for each fan base to play each other in conference, in every sport.

(08-26-2021 11:09 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 10:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 08:12 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I really enjoy reading the hilarious revisionist history from USF fans pretending that they didn't wholeheartedly support keeping UCF out of the Big East back in the day.

I hope you're not talking about me, because:

1) I loved it back in the 2000s when we were in the Big East and UCF wasn't.

2) In late 2011 I bit my tongue and didn't like it when UCF was invited to the Big East after we had been raided.

3) I would love it if USF was promoted to a P-conference and UCF wasn't. Would hate it if the opposite happened.

I stand by all that.

And I don't expect anything but the same (in reverse) from UCF fans.

I want USF and UCF to be in the same conference, wherever that is. It's better, and more exciting for each fan base to play each other in conference, in every sport.

I understand that perspective. But I would like to return to the pre-2012 situation, where we are in a better conference than UCF, and are playing them OOC.

I get that this is not likely to happen any time soon. But it's my wish.

(08-26-2021 12:51 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:04 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  UCF is a newer FBS program, like Boise. Theyve only been at the top level for 25 years. They have zero national titles in FB. Zero.

Memphis seems to be a program on the rise. What did they ever do before 2014? Nothing! From 1999-2013 they had the same number of wins as UTEP.

Houston and Cincinnati used to be in bigger leagues but were demoted. If they were so good theyd be in a power league by now.

UCF has a MNC that's more valid than BYUs and it's current.

Ok, so over the last 8 years Memphis has been the better program. Again Current years.

BYU isn't in a P5 league either but Houston and Cincy have a better shot at getting into one than BYU does.

99.99% of people think UCF's claim is an absolute joke. Seems like everyone but you accepts BYU's title. They were the only unbeaten and did what they needed to do. UCF was 0-12 just 6 years ago. Although they have a big potential upside, they are a huge risk.

(08-26-2021 07:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 05:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  UCF's next MNC in FB will be its first one. The site hosting the computer algorithm that the claim is based on confirms that it is not attempting to pick the "best" team.

I totally agree that UCF has never won an MNC.

But about the Colley-Matrix, which I assume you are referring to: IIRC they do publish a post-bowl ranking, which is what UCF was #1 in. If that post-bowl ranking isn't designed to pick the best team, or team that had the best year, what is its purpose? That's not a rhetorical question, btw - it seems you know something about the algorithm I don't and I would like to know it.

FWIW, the CM also ranks basketball teams, and it produces screwy rankings. This season, it picked Gonzaga #1 in its final rankings, after Baylor beat Gonzaga in the national title game.

In football, the NCAA rule book says CM picked Alabama as the 2016 champ (despite losing the CFP title game) and it has Notre Dame as the 2012 champ (despite losing the BCS title game). It's a weird borky system, IMO.

I thought it was the Hokiest system (Colley was a VT student) in the BCS, although Billingsley sometimes had weird results too.

(08-26-2021 09:52 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 08:12 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I really enjoy reading the hilarious revisionist history from USF fans pretending that they didn't wholeheartedly support keeping UCF out of the Big East back in the day. Nothing any of us say on this or any message board matters regarding what will happen in expansion, so just have the decency to admit you loved having the conference leg up on UCF, wanted nothing to do with being in a league with them, and know deep down they are going to be happy to return the favor and ditch you the second they get the chance.

I already said USF made a bad decision trying to keep UCF out of the Big East. Heck, UCF should have been added when USF was. But also remember, USF had only one vote, and if the other members wanted UCF back then, they would have been in. UCF has always had a lot of potential, even back then, but it was less apparent then (less time and success in FBS).

Looking back on it, USF should have advocated for UCF to be in Big East more. It was and still is better for both schools to be in the same conference. I actually believe most USF AND UCF supporters believe this.

Its a critical mass. Together they are stronger than alone. I think Houston made a serious mistake abandoning all the rest of the SWC in 1996. Eventually they brought TCU into CUSA and then SMU to replace them.

UCF really makes sense as a football only add. That would reduce the travel and not have the downside of an underfunded and under attended basketball program (the other sports don't matter). By AAC standards UCF is mid pack in basketball, but for the Big 12 they would be the Tulane/ECU basketball problem. No other Olympic sports matter (nobody watches Tennis or women's soccer). Not sure UCF could find a suitable Olympic sports conference.

(08-26-2021 12:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  UCF really makes sense as a football only add. That would reduce the travel and not have the downside of an underfunded and under attended basketball program (the other sports don't matter). By AAC standards UCF is mid pack in basketball, but for the Big 12 they would be the Tulane/ECU basketball problem. No other Olympic sports matter (nobody watches Tennis or women's soccer). Not sure UCF could find a suitable Olympic sports conference.

I think partial members screams "G5!!!!"

Psychologically, for national perception, I think its a horrible move. Its also an issue if there is an ultimate secession from the NCAA.

(08-26-2021 12:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:51 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(08-26-2021 12:04 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  UCF is a newer FBS program, like Boise. Theyve only been at the top level for 25 years. They have zero national titles in FB. Zero.

Memphis seems to be a program on the rise. What did they ever do before 2014? Nothing! From 1999-2013 they had the same number of wins as UTEP.

Houston and Cincinnati used to be in bigger leagues but were demoted. If they were so good theyd be in a power league by now.

UCF has a MNC that's more valid than BYUs and it's current.

Ok, so over the last 8 years Memphis has been the better program. Again Current years.

BYU isn't in a P5 league either but Houston and Cincy have a better shot at getting into one than BYU does.

99.99% of people think UCF's claim is an absolute joke. Seems like everyone but you accepts BYU's title. They were the only unbeaten and did what they needed to do. UCF was 0-12 just 6 years ago. Although they have a big potential upside, they are a huge risk.

Well, not everyone. BYU didn't beat anyone that finished ranked, and I believe the only opponent that was ranked when they played BYU was Pitt in the opener (who I think won only three games that season). I don't take UCF's claim seriously, but it was a more valid claim than BYU's.

(08-26-2021 12:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  UCF really makes sense as a football only add. That would reduce the travel and not have the downside of an underfunded and under attended basketball program (the other sports don't matter). By AAC standards UCF is mid pack in basketball, but for the Big 12 they would be the Tulane/ECU basketball problem. No other Olympic sports matter (nobody watches Tennis or women's soccer). Not sure UCF could find a suitable Olympic sports conference.

UCF was a luckier bounce away from beating the #1 overall seed and advancing to the Sweet 16 just a couple years ago. We have a relatively new 10,000 seat arena, and our fans do show up when we’re good, as evidenced by our multiple sellouts over the last 5 years or so. (2017 NIT game against Illinois was a sellout, and Cincy in 2018 was as well. There’s a few more). UCF has been recruiting well under Dawkins and are certainly not as big of a drag as you seem to think.

(08-26-2021 01:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Well, not everyone. BYU didn't beat anyone that finished ranked, and I believe the only opponent that was ranked when they played BYU was Pitt in the opener (who I think won only three games that season). I don't take UCF's claim seriously, but it was a more valid claim than BYU's.

To me, it's a different issue for both schools. BYU clearly won the title (in both the AP and Coaches' Poll) - the question is whether that title was deserved. Some say yes; some say no.

UCF did not win the title. Rather, they have a claim (like many other schools in the past). Is it a legitimate claim? Some say yes; most say no.

In the past, everyone *knew* that it was mythical anyway. It's still that, but less so in the BCS and CFP eras.