(07-21-2021 05:07 PM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:03 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  I wonder if the SEC would be okay with the adding Texas Tech and Oklahoma St. if that meant locking in Texas and Oklahoma? With 18 teams, the SEC could split into 2 9-team divisions like this:

East:
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Missouri
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

West:
Arkansas
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi St.
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

Another option would be to add an ACC school or West Virigina rather than Texas Tech and place them in the east to shift Missouri west and avoid splitting up the Mississippi schools.

I don't think it makes financial sense for the SEC to add anybody else from the Big 12. Those teams just don't move the needle enough and with the addition of OK and UT, they will already have those TV markets.

Financially, I agree, but politically, would the SEC consider taking them to avoid all the hassle that it might take to add Oklahoma and Texas without OkSt and Tech if it doesn't hurt finances too much?

One could put together of a voting block that would be opposed to UT/OU...

MSST/Ole Miss/LSU/ARK = Not wanting to be in a SEC West without Bama/AUB

UTN/SCAR/UF/UGA/ = Not wanting AUB/BAMA in the SEC East

MIZZOU/A&M = Opposed to UTX

Now the money would definitely be a balm to the above concerns, but I think the Aggies and Tigers would have more friends than anticipated.

(07-21-2021 03:34 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I can't speak for the Big 10 but if Oklahoma and Texas do go to the SEC and I were in charge of the Big 10, I'm not going to bail out Iowa State, Kansas, or anyone else in the Big 12 and I have no need to expand to 16 just to keep up with the SEC. Adding two extra members means cutting the pie into two extra slices. If the two are Texas and Oklahoma, the pie gets bigger and the slices are still bigger overall. If the two are Iowa State and Kansas or any other Big 12 pair, the pie isn't likely going to get bigger and the slices overall will be smaller so why should the Big 10 add anyone? If FOX, ESPN, CBS, etc will offer us a proportional increase for two Big 12 members, I'll listen. Otherwise, no deal.

Exactly. If anything the B1G will come in and try to hook UT and OU before its finalized. If they can't get them, they won't be expanding just to expand. The B1G stayed at 11 for two decades.

(07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101

JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.

If this is true, then anyone from the SEC that votes against this (outside of maybe A&M on principle to keep their alums happy) is dumb as f**k. This would be the greatest conference realignment heist of all time.

If the Big Ten actually had a chance to add Oklahoma and they didn’t and now this is happening for the SEC, then they’re also dumb as f**k.

Just amazing - been way head down in work all day and just saw this potential earthquake. Lots to process now.

(07-21-2021 05:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 03:34 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I can't speak for the Big 10 but if Oklahoma and Texas do go to the SEC and I were in charge of the Big 10, I'm not going to bail out Iowa State, Kansas, or anyone else in the Big 12 and I have no need to expand to 16 just to keep up with the SEC. Adding two extra members means cutting the pie into two extra slices. If the two are Texas and Oklahoma, the pie gets bigger and the slices are still bigger overall. If the two are Iowa State and Kansas or any other Big 12 pair, the pie isn't likely going to get bigger and the slices overall will be smaller so why should the Big 10 add anyone? If FOX, ESPN, CBS, etc will offer us a proportional increase for two Big 12 members, I'll listen. Otherwise, no deal.

Exactly. If anything the B1G will come in and try to hook UT and OU before its finalized. If they can't get them, they won't be expanding just to expand. The B1G stayed at 11 for two decades.

I think the Big Ten legitimately likes Kansas. The problem is that there isn’t anyone else interesting to them from the Big 12 beyond Texas or Oklahoma.

(07-21-2021 05:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101

JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.

If this is true, then anyone from the SEC that votes against this (outside of maybe A&M on principle to keep their alums happy) is dumb as f**k. This would be the greatest conference realignment heist of all time.

If the Big Ten actually had a chance to add Oklahoma and they didn’t and now this is happening for the SEC, then they’re also dumb as f**k.

Just amazing - been way head down in work all day and just saw this potential earthquake. Lots to process now.

Considering their new conference leadership, I'm not surprised at all if the B1G was not proactive.

This wouldn't have happened under Delaney.

This reads like UT's pushback on the idea that TAMU or Mizzou or anyone else would block UT from the SEC: If you block us, we're going to go somewhere else anyway, and the rest of the SEC will blame you for it.

Texas exploring other conference options for some time amid SEC report: Source

Quote:Following a Houston Chronicle report published Wednesday regarding Texas' and Oklahoma's interest in potentially joining the SEC, an industry source with knowledge of the situation told The Athletic that Texas has been exploring other conference options for some time.

The report states that the two Big 12 schools have reached out to the SEC about the idea of becoming the conference's newest members.

"Speculation swirls around collegiate athletics. We will not address rumors or speculation," a Texas spokesperson said in a statement.

Oklahoma took a similar path as Texas, releasing the following statement: “The college athletics landscape is shifting constantly. We don't address every anonymous rumor.”

(07-21-2021 05:19 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101

JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.

Why would they have no say? They are voting members of the SEC. I thought you needed a 3/4 vote - that's 11 of the 14 meaning you need 4 to block as if that would happen.

Their votes count exactly the same as the founding members. I meant to say, as the newest members, their influence is less.

If the 10 legacy members want OU/Texas, they only need one of South Carolina or Arkansas to make it happen.

I'll believe this when I see it. However, anyone with grand visions that the AAC is going to raid the B12 is stupid, and anyone with grand visions that the MWC or C-USA are going to raid the AAC is just as stupid. If this somehow happens the B12 will add 2 teams at most (I'll just guess Cincy and BYU but who knows). If the AAC is raided down to 10 I suspect they just stay at 10, if down to 9 probably just stay at 9 too since you can play a championship game with a full round-robin. Actually, now that I think about the B12 might just add 1 team if it were to happen.

(07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101

JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.

Dan Wolken
@DanWolken
The Mississippis should absolutely be a no.

https://twitter.com/DanWolken/status/141...3872977920

(07-21-2021 05:28 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  One could put together of a voting block that would be opposed to UT/OU...

MSST/Ole Miss/LSU/ARK = Not wanting to be in a SEC West without Bama/AUB

UTN/SCAR/UF/UGA/ = Not wanting AUB/BAMA in the SEC East

MIZZOU/A&M = Opposed to UTX

Now the money would definitely be a balm to the above concerns, but I think the Aggies and Tigers would have more friends than anticipated.

It's striking that most of the East don't want Bama in their division and most of the West do.

I get the individual rationales ... that having Bama and Auburn in your division helps sell season tickets, helps attract the extra donations needed to get "good" tickets, helps fill up the stadium on game day, while having Bama and Auburn in your division can make it harder to win the division.

But what an incredible coincidence that it's the schools in the West that are mostly concerned with having exciting games and schools in the East that are mostly concerned with their path to the championship game.

It's almost as if it's the factor that makes them opposed to Oklahoma and Texas joining which is taken as the dominant factor for their school.

I can see One Mississippi, Two Mississippi being two No's, but I am not convinced that Arkansas and LSU will have the same view. And Georgia and Florida might be tired of the locked Third Saturday in October which keeps Bama from visiting their stadiums more often.

(07-21-2021 05:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If the Big Ten actually had a chance to add Oklahoma and they didn’t and now this is happening for the SEC, then they’re also dumb as f**k. ...

If they had a chance to take Oklahoma and, say, Kansas ... and it was blocked by That School Up North, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue and Illinois due to academic snobbery, that's dumber than a bag of hammers.

(07-21-2021 05:28 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  One could put together of a voting block that would be opposed to UT/OU...

MSST/Ole Miss/LSU/ARK = Not wanting to be in a SEC West without Bama/AUB

UTN/SCAR/UF/UGA/ = Not wanting AUB/BAMA in the SEC East

MIZZOU/A&M = Opposed to UTX

Now the money would definitely be a balm to the above concerns, but I think the Aggies and Tigers would have more friends than anticipated.

LSU/Ole Miss/MSU are the losers in this, as legacy members of the SEC. All of their old rivals go to the East, while they make trips to Oklahoma and Missouri. Nonetheless, the money is worthwhile.

If the NCAA allows conferences to do away with divisions, this issue can be solved by giving each school a smaller number (3-5?) of permanent rivals while rotating through the rest of the conference.

(07-21-2021 05:25 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Ugh. The rich get richer.

So if this were to occur, I think we'd see the SEC move to 4-team pods:

Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M

None of the remaining power conferences (now the P4) make any moves. The Big 12 restocks with Cincinnati and UCF, the AAC restocks with UAB (or falls apart entirely), and CUSA stands pat. Boring realignment. Wasted opportunity.

If they do rotating pods, that line up makes the sense.

As far as the Big 12 restock goes, I think your 6 top players are:

Houston
UCF
Cincinnati
USF
BYU
Memphis

I suspect they will keep things small and stick with 9 or 10 members.

The American survives but only restocks to 10 members.

XII adding Houston is the best way to get back at Texas for leaving.

Going all the way back to 12 is possible. Houston, SMU, Memphis and Cincinnati.

The AAC is going to take a big hit. Who is going to join Wichita, Tulsa, Tulane, UCF, USF, ECU and Temple in a conference? Travel with those 7 is terrible. Wichita can go back to the MVC or join the MWC. The MWC would be a stronger football conference moving forward at that point.

Wichita doesn't care about football - it would be which is the better BB conference - the dried husk of the AAC, the MVC, or the Mountain West?

While I think this is the logical move, the Big-12 GOR still has 4 years to run, obviously 3 years would still be left if they announced they were joining next year. The only thing that lines up with is OU's 3rd tier rights under SoonerTV (run by the BTN for Fox Sports) contract expiration.

I suppose they could negotiate perhaps $50-70m or so exit fee each to leave early, maybe more to get out of the GOR.

The Big 12 will be awash in cash, with tons of NCAA credits well into the future, plus 3 more years of the current CBS/ESPN TV contracts. Definitely wont consider dissolving if this really happens.

Time for BYU, Colorado State, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston and UCF to put their best foot forward. They are going to need 2. I suspect Basketball will matter, as even if Football falls to AAC level (it wont fall that much, it'll be a little higher), they are a powerful Basketball conference with pretty much every school in the conversation for tourney bids, and blue blood KU and powers TCU and Baylor still in the fold. (Who knows maybe they get creative and add somebody like Dayton as an 11th in Basketball to bolster that side more.)

I think it makes sense, but the timeline is surprising, unless they think they can negotiate an out. It would not surprise me if they said 4 years to force the little-8 to accept a cash settlement. I see no way the B12 could afford to keep Oklahoma past 2025 without abandoning the even payment system, and that is a problem.

Texas wants to stay with Oklahoma and vice versa. The SEC offers reunions with Missouri and A&M. The nexus of rivals would pull LSU, Arkansas and Mississippi State in the revamped West Division, send Alabama (back with Tennessee) and Auburn (back with Florida and Georgia) to the East. Ole' Miss is kind of in no mans land (need Vandy, Alabama, but also LSU and Miss St), but who else do you send West? I think the SEC would have to move to 9 games to get enough cross over. Basketball would be pretty much single round robin, playing only a few rivals a second time, plus a couple others a second time as TV match ups dictate.

Wild if true. (it feels true)

(07-21-2021 04:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Ugh. The rich get richer.

So if this were to occur, I think we'd see the SEC move to 4-team pods:

Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M

None of the remaining power conferences (now the P4) make any moves. The Big 12 restocks with Cincinnati and UCF, the AAC restocks with UAB (or falls apart entirely), and CUSA stands pat. Boring realignment. Wasted opportunity.

Awesome scenarios - the destruction of Big 12 and AAC.

(07-21-2021 05:45 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:28 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  One could put together of a voting block that would be opposed to UT/OU...

MSST/Ole Miss/LSU/ARK = Not wanting to be in a SEC West without Bama/AUB

UTN/SCAR/UF/UGA/ = Not wanting AUB/BAMA in the SEC East

MIZZOU/A&M = Opposed to UTX

Now the money would definitely be a balm to the above concerns, but I think the Aggies and Tigers would have more friends than anticipated.

LSU/Ole Miss/MSU are the losers in this, as legacy members of the SEC. All of their old rivals go to the East, while they make trips to Oklahoma and Missouri. Nonetheless, the money is worthwhile.

If the NCAA allows conferences to do away with divisions, this issue can be solved by giving each school a smaller number (3-5?) of permanent rivals while rotating through the rest of the conference.

LSU and Auburn were never historical rivals. That only happened after being forced to play in the West. Auburn's rivals are mainly in the East with MSU as well. I think a pod system or classic rivalries can be assembled for the SEC. 5 historical rivals and 10 rotating opps.

(07-21-2021 04:26 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 04:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 03:43 PM)micahandme Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 03:34 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I can't speak for the Big 10 but if Oklahoma and Texas do go to the SEC and I were in charge of the Big 10, I'm not going to bail out Iowa State, Kansas, or anyone else in the Big 12 and I have no need to expand to 16 just to keep up with the SEC. Adding two extra members means cutting the pie into two extra slices. If the two are Texas and Oklahoma, the pie gets bigger and the slices are still bigger overall. If the two are Iowa State and Kansas or any other Big 12 pair, the pie isn't likely going to get bigger and the slices overall will be smaller so why should the Big 10 add anyone? If FOX, ESPN, CBS, etc will offer us a proportional increase for two Big 12 members, I'll listen. Otherwise, no deal.

Agreed.

If the ACC is locked down and the Big Ten can't crack UVA or UNC free, there's no one even in the stratosphere of OU/UT for acadmics/sports.

What if the Big Ten countered the SEC move by landing Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia?

Doesn't that still fall under the category of "ACC is locked down"?

But assuming the ACC isn't locked down, that would be a mammoth move for the Big 10 but not the same category as OU/UT to the SEC.

You can bet your hairy nut sack that the SEC will be fielding calls for weeks, starting a few hours ago, from other schools in the Big12, as well as from schools in the ACC, inquiring about their chances to join the SEC. No one should be deluded into thinking otherwise. The SEC payout per school will soon be 75 million per year. The SEC can have any school it wants without asking. The question everyone will be asking, are there any more golden tickets left?

(07-21-2021 05:41 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'll believe this when I see it. However, anyone with grand visions that the AAC is going to raid the B12 is stupid, and anyone with grand visions that the MWC or C-USA are going to raid the AAC is just as stupid. If this somehow happens the B12 will add 2 teams at most (I'll just guess Cincy and BYU but who knows). If the AAC is raided down to 10 I suspect they just stay at 10, if down to 9 probably just stay at 9 too since you can play a championship game with a full round-robin. Actually, now that I think about the B12 might just add 1 team if it were to happen.

XII needs 10 full members to satisfy its TV deal. It will be at least 2 full backfills, if not 4 to get back to 12 for more inventory since they will be looking at a smaller deal anyways.

BYU did rate pretty high when XII candidates were evaluated a few years back. Would they feel an XII without Texas/OU is good enough for them I don't know. Its even less stable than it was before.

(07-21-2021 05:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101

JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.

If this is true, then anyone from the SEC that votes against this (outside of maybe A&M on principle to keep their alums happy) is dumb as f**k. This would be the greatest conference realignment heist of all time.

If the Big Ten actually had a chance to add Oklahoma and they didn’t and now this is happening for the SEC, then they’re also dumb as f**k.

Just amazing - been way head down in work all day and just saw this potential earthquake. Lots to process now.

Frank this is just the start of a massive seismic shift. I also found out the publisher of the Chronicle wanted all info before running it and he was convinced. We'll see. But I think changes are coming sooner than believed and for everyone.

(07-21-2021 05:54 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 05:41 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'll believe this when I see it. However, anyone with grand visions that the AAC is going to raid the B12 is stupid, and anyone with grand visions that the MWC or C-USA are going to raid the AAC is just as stupid. If this somehow happens the B12 will add 2 teams at most (I'll just guess Cincy and BYU but who knows). If the AAC is raided down to 10 I suspect they just stay at 10, if down to 9 probably just stay at 9 too since you can play a championship game with a full round-robin. Actually, now that I think about the B12 might just add 1 team if it were to happen.

XII needs 10 full members to satisfy its TV deal. It will be at least 2 full backfills, if not 4 to get back to 12 for more inventory since they will be looking at a smaller deal anyways.

BYU did rate pretty high when XII candidates were evaluated a few years back. Would they feel an XII without Texas/OU is good enough for them I don't know. Its even less stable than it was before.

That TV deal gets ripped to shreds without OU and Texas, so that's not a consideration.