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UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
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emu steve Offline
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UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
First of all, it normally takes us until AUGUST to finalize the OOC games. It won't be easier this year with a new staff.

This is a Tweet I stumbled across showing OOC games with GUARANTEES for two mid to lower mid-majors from the DMV.

https://d1docket.blogspot.com/2021/06/we...-2021.html

So Morgan State and Radford are going for say mostly in the say 65 - 75K range for an away game.

That should give us some indication the amount of greenbacks we would need to pony up for D-I OOC home games. And it has always been my view that EMU would rather pay say 10K for an NAIA game (they have minimal expense - 'just rent and warm up the bus') than say 65 - 75K for an opponent like Radford.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2021 12:09 PM by emu steve.)
06-07-2021 12:07 PM
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Miggy Online
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!
06-12-2021 02:52 PM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-12-2021 02:52 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!

Show us the money to schedule the games.
06-12-2021 04:47 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
Say what you will, but playing a rigorous off season schedule usually pays off in the long run, not only financially but competitively as well.

Izzo has done it for years, it is the reason he has done so well come March. Gonzaga, by contrast, does schedule a few Big opponents in the OOC but plays in a creampuff conference. Then they get athletically superior Baylor for all the marbles and look clueless in the NCAA finals, because they have yet to encounter such an opponent.

Make no mistake, you don't want your team to pile up a bunch of losses early in the season, it can destroy their confidence and morale. Then again I remember Murph's 2019-20 team that started 9-1 by playing ABSOLUTELY NOBODY! We were all excited but that rigorous OOC schedule subsequently produced an 0-7 MAC start.
06-12-2021 06:16 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-12-2021 06:16 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Say what you will, but playing a rigorous off season schedule usually pays off in the long run, not only financially but competitively as well.

Izzo has done it for years, it is the reason he has done so well come March. Gonzaga, by contrast, does schedule a few Big opponents in the OOC but plays in a creampuff conference. Then they get athletically superior Baylor for all the marbles and look clueless in the NCAA finals, because they have yet to encounter such an opponent.

Make no mistake, you don't want your team to pile up a bunch of losses early in the season, it can destroy their confidence and morale. Then again I remember Murph's 2019-20 team that started 9-1 by playing ABSOLUTELY NOBODY! We were all excited but that rigorous OOC schedule subsequently produced an 0-7 MAC start.

Jerry, kudos for doing your research. I double checked there schedule it is as you said.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket.../_/id/2250

That said, I'm not sure I'd use a team which lost the NC game as an example of 'failure.'

They won a lot of convincing tourney games. They just throw in a clunker at the worst time.
06-12-2021 08:06 PM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-12-2021 08:06 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 06:16 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Say what you will, but playing a rigorous off season schedule usually pays off in the long run, not only financially but competitively as well.

Izzo has done it for years, it is the reason he has done so well come March. Gonzaga, by contrast, does schedule a few Big opponents in the OOC but plays in a creampuff conference. Then they get athletically superior Baylor for all the marbles and look clueless in the NCAA finals, because they have yet to encounter such an opponent.

Make no mistake, you don't want your team to pile up a bunch of losses early in the season, it can destroy their confidence and morale. Then again I remember Murph's 2019-20 team that started 9-1 by playing ABSOLUTELY NOBODY! We were all excited but that rigorous OOC schedule subsequently produced an 0-7 MAC start.

Jerry, kudos for doing your research. I double checked there schedule it is as you said.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket.../_/id/2250

That said, I'm not sure I'd use a team which lost the NC game as an example of 'failure.'

They won a lot of convincing tourney games. They just throw in a clunker at the worst time.

Believe Houston played the cream-puff schedule in NCAA tournament. When finally met up with Baylor in Final Four, Houston was down by 25-points at half-time. Only one Houston player scored more than 3-points in first-half.

Players love playing good teams. Won’t get them demoralized. Should help prepare them for MAC conference play. Scheduling good teams is very helpful in recruiting.
06-12-2021 10:19 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-12-2021 10:19 PM)Miggy Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 08:06 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 06:16 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Say what you will, but playing a rigorous off season schedule usually pays off in the long run, not only financially but competitively as well.

Izzo has done it for years, it is the reason he has done so well come March. Gonzaga, by contrast, does schedule a few Big opponents in the OOC but plays in a creampuff conference. Then they get athletically superior Baylor for all the marbles and look clueless in the NCAA finals, because they have yet to encounter such an opponent.

Make no mistake, you don't want your team to pile up a bunch of losses early in the season, it can destroy their confidence and morale. Then again I remember Murph's 2019-20 team that started 9-1 by playing ABSOLUTELY NOBODY! We were all excited but that rigorous OOC schedule subsequently produced an 0-7 MAC start.

Jerry, kudos for doing your research. I double checked there schedule it is as you said.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket.../_/id/2250

That said, I'm not sure I'd use a team which lost the NC game as an example of 'failure.'

They won a lot of convincing tourney games. They just throw in a clunker at the worst time.

Believe Houston played the cream-puff schedule in NCAA tournament. When finally met up with Baylor in Final Four, Houston was down by 25-points at half-time. Only one Houston player scored more than 3-points in first-half.

Players love playing good teams. Won’t get them demoralized. Should help prepare them for MAC conference play. Scheduling good teams is very helpful in recruiting.

Gonzaga, you mean?

Once again, most of Gonzaga's schedule was conference games. They scheduled a tough OOC schedule but some of it was wiped out because of Covid.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket.../_/id/2250

They played Kansas, Auburn, W. Va, and Iowa. A game with Baylor was canceled.

This is one of the toughest OOC schedules in the nation.

Gonzaga is a private, Catholic school and they play in a conference with a lot of similar schools (schools like San Diego, San Francisco, etc. are NOT public schools. They are Catholic universities named after saints not cities). Other schools like Santa Clara, Portland, Loyola Marymount, etc. BYU is also a church affiliated school. So is Pepperdine. And so is Pacific. There are no public schools in that conference.

We, at EMU, should understand that. MAC schools are public schools, generally mid sized. We play MAC schools. Heath's KSU team played MAC schools. Boone's teams played MAC schools.

Conference membership is based on the type of school. Not athletic success. (Northwestern in the B1G is an exception, they are private, not public).

What to make of a bad loss to Baylor? Not much. When was the last unbeaten D-I MBB team? Decades ago.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2021 06:15 AM by emu steve.)
06-13-2021 06:05 AM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-12-2021 02:52 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!

Edit: Schedule very challenging non-conference games ON THE ROAD (LAST 3 WORDS MINE).

P.S. We tried this before with bad results.
06-13-2021 06:48 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 06:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 02:52 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!

Edit: Schedule very challenging non-conference games ON THE ROAD (LAST 3 WORDS MINE).

P.S. We tried this before with bad results.

This is how Mike Davis at UofD sets up his schedules.
06-13-2021 07:13 AM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 07:13 AM)KPJ Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 06:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 02:52 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!

Edit: Schedule very challenging non-conference games ON THE ROAD (LAST 3 WORDS MINE).

P.S. We tried this before with bad results.

This is how Mike Davis at UofD sets up his schedules.

Interesting. UDM is sub-.500 in conference the past 3 years despite having a super coach's son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis...all_coach)

There are no rules or prescriptions in sports about how to produce great success Best observation is that most prescriptions will produce 'average' results.

I hear there is a head coach in upstate N.Y. who is in the 90th+ percentile among active coaches and he uses the despised zone defense... :)
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2021 07:42 AM by emu steve.)
06-13-2021 07:27 AM
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Miggy Online
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
Even with Gonzaga’s undefeated season going into Baylor game,. It’s bad loss to Baylor shows that Baylor was heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Strong believer in scheduling the best teams. Fear of losing should not be a consideration. Appears that EMU HC Heath both gutsy and visionary.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2021 08:02 AM by Miggy.)
06-13-2021 08:00 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 07:27 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 07:13 AM)KPJ Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 06:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 02:52 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Sense from EMU’s HC Stan Heath’s comments that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and schedule very challenging non-conference games. If so, both EMU players and fans should love it!

Edit: Schedule very challenging non-conference games ON THE ROAD (LAST 3 WORDS MINE).

P.S. We tried this before with bad results.

This is how Mike Davis at UofD sets up his schedules.

Interesting. UDM is sub-.500 in conference the past 3 years despite having a super coach's son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis...all_coach)

There are no rules or prescriptions in sports about how to produce great success Best observation is that most prescriptions will produce 'average' results.

I hear there is a head coach in upstate N.Y. who is in the 90th+ percentile among active coaches and he uses the despised zone defense... :)

Can’t use UDM as the ONLY barometer for this approach. He did the same thing at his previous two stops and made the NCAA tournament multiple times.
06-13-2021 08:02 AM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
Reality check. The AD is responsible for putting the schedule together not the basketball coaches. The coaches may have input but not control. At the end of the day the AD has something called a budget and must schedule around the budget. All of those wanting an improved home schedule, dig out your checkbook and write a check to the hoops program. I assume we could go on the road and try to get big money games and being blowed out. However, there are only a certain number of those games as well. Doesn't do much for the morale of the team or the coach's record in some instances.
06-13-2021 08:29 AM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 08:00 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Even with Gonzaga’s undefeated season going into Baylor game,. It’s bad loss to Baylor shows that Baylor was heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Strong believer in scheduling the best teams. Fear of losing should not be a consideration. Appears that EMU HC Heath both gutsy and visionary.

Lets replace gutsy and visionary with "wait and see".
06-13-2021 08:30 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 08:29 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Reality check. The AD is responsible for putting the schedule together not the basketball coaches. The coaches may have input but not control. At the end of the day the AD has something called a budget and must schedule around the budget. All of those wanting an improved home schedule, dig out your checkbook and write a check to the hoops program. I assume we could go on the road and try to get big money games and being blowed out. However, there are only a certain number of those games as well. Doesn't do much for the morale of the team or the coach's record in some instances.

I agree with the theme but not the details of your post.

in FOOTBALL the AD does the scheduling, negotiations, etc. As we know those contracts can easily exceed 1M road game guarantee AND over 250K home game guarantee.

As you suggest in MBB the HC is given financial parameters to work within. The AD might say, "We need 250K guarantee money and can spend no more than 75K on guarantee home games."

Kevin Mondro used to have the task of trying to arrange the OOC schedule. When I was at the Convo a few years ago, I asked about games on the East Coast or California. Murphy just took me over to Mondro's office and asked HIM. I believe this is typical with the assoc. HC assuming that role.

It can be like negotiating a labor agreement with the Big 3. Lot of going around and around, on dates, guarantee amounts, possible home and home. Remember each school EMU is talking with might be talking with say a dozen schools, also. Crazy example: Say Nov 21. EMU might be talking with CLE. State, IUPUI, OU, UDM, etc. CLE. State might be talking with EMU and say 4 or 5 other schools who are open that day. It becomes a messy web.

BTW, some schools do NOT want home and home. A HBCU (e.g., Howard) may wish to pocket 75 -85K rather than have a home and home and the home game might net say 10K. Have to remember that a lot of schools, including ones we've played over the years have small arenas and draw say 1 - 2K.

The HC then has to make it work INCLUDING home and homes which produce little monies. I think they may trade small guarantee either way. E.g., if we play home and home with CLE State we may given them say 30K to visit and they give us 30K when we visit. This is designed to cover expenses.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2021 10:12 AM by emu steve.)
06-13-2021 10:06 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 08:00 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Even with Gonzaga’s undefeated season going into Baylor game,. It’s bad loss to Baylor shows that Baylor was heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Strong believer in scheduling the best teams. Fear of losing should not be a consideration. Appears that EMU HC Heath both gutsy and visionary.

The only fair response would be: It Baylor and Gonzaga played a best of 3 or 5 series I do not know who would win.

I never assume two games between two very, very good teams would produce the same outcome.

No one really believe that when 6 years ago EMU beat UofM that if we played best of 5 or 7, that we'd win the series.

(This is why the NBA has best of 7 series and even in NCAAs college baseball is now in double elimination rounds (first round and then super regionals).
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2021 01:01 PM by emu steve.)
06-13-2021 10:15 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
It's also the type of money games you play. Scheduling say Minnesota, Vanderbilt and Butler gives a MAC team 3 big money games without terrible travel times or costs. You probably go 0-3 but should be competitive in most of em. While playing Duke, Texas, and Arizona is similar money but tougher competition and more travel time and cost and likely blowouts. In reality smaller MAC programs (those with less fans, athletic budgets, name recognition) have it harder than Buffalo, Toledo and Ohio who still struggle badly to get P6 home games but can usually schedule some solid A10, CUSA, Valley teams for home and homes and have a good crowd turn out to cover costs. MAC teams with a little more name recognition and success also get spots in here and there in good neutral court tourneys. BG got wins over Western Kentucky and Cincy a couple years ago in such a tourney. Teams that would not have come to BG for an away game.
06-13-2021 09:40 PM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
(06-13-2021 10:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 08:00 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Even with Gonzaga’s undefeated season going into Baylor game,. It’s bad loss to Baylor shows that Baylor was heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Strong believer in scheduling the best teams. Fear of losing should not be a consideration. Appears that EMU HC Heath both gutsy and visionary.

The only fair response would be: It Baylor and Gonzaga played a best of 3 or 5 series I do not know who would win.

I never assume two games between two very, very good teams would produce the same outcome.

No one really believe that when 6 years ago EMU beat UofM that if we played best of 5 or 7, that we'd win the series.

(This is why the NBA has best of 7 series and even in NCAAs college baseball is now in double elimination rounds (first round and then super regionals).

Steve I will always treasure the U-M win, it gives me a lot of bragging rights in my hometown. That said, that victory was somewhat hollowed by the fact that Blue lost to the perennial power New Jersey Institute of Technology during that same time period, it was Beilein's worst team during his M career. Blue just plain sucked then.

Mark Few and Gonzaga ran into the same freight train that the B1G conference did last year due to their pandemic heavy preference for scheduling mainly only conference opponents. Izzo and MSU, until last year has always presented the most athletic team in the conference, Wisconsin having played MSU twice subsequently was not awed by undefeated Kentucky when they ended that undefeated season in the Final Four.

My point is this. The B1G was a center centric conference last year with Luka Garza, Kofi Cockburn and Hunter Dickinson becoming its marquee players and was lauded as the nation's best league. Unfortunately when they saw more athletic teams with quicker, smaller yet skilled players playing a different kind of basketball, they were found wanting in the NCAA tournament. Few is a fabulous coach, he won 31 games in a row! I just suspect that had he saw the Baylor physicality and speed earlier in the season, he would have made some very necessary adjustments to his strategy and the results of the NCAA championship game would have been different.

I'm not proposing that any school schedule only non-winnable OOC games, your team morale and confidence will never recover. Nevertheless "what does not kill you will make you stronger". Playing better teams a reasonable amount of times will teach both players and coaches.
06-15-2021 05:33 PM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
If Baylor and Gonzaga played in a 3 or 5 game series it’s fairly clear from Baylor beating Gonzaga by 16-points, 86-70, (by 10-points in the first half; 6-points in the second half) in the Bational Clamoonship game that Gonzaga would likely have beaten Baylor in any series.

As Baylor had 11 more offensive rebounds and committed 6 less turnovers than Gonzaga. Such resulted in Baylor taking 18 more fga’s than Gonzaga did. Not likely that Gonzaga HC Few could make any significant adjustments that would change those numbers.

Moreover, Gonzaga shot as well as it could in the Baylor game. Gonzaga had no chance to beat Baylor as Baylor’s guards were to quick to the hoop, were excellent three-point shooters, and better defenders of the three-ball.

Gonzaga is an excellent team, but not nearly as good as Baylor. For me, just watching the game and ignoring stats proved that.

Agree with your analysis as to why EMU should schedule good teams in non-conference play. .
06-16-2021 05:04 AM
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RE: UNOFFICIAL 2021/2 MBB Schedule Discussion Thread
Show the AD the money.
06-16-2021 05:26 AM
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