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2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #121
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
Mississippi State 11 Notre Dame 7

Mississippi State gives the SEC 3 schools at the CWS.
06-14-2021 09:38 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #122
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-14-2021 09:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Mississippi State 11 Notre Dame 7

Mississippi State gives the SEC 3 schools at the CWS.

The SEC needed that one, JRsec. To get only two of the six SEC that went to the final 16 would have been solid. But to have three is very good.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 09:52 PM by bill dazzle.)
06-14-2021 09:51 PM
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Post: #123
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-13-2021 08:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  ND just beat Mississippi State 9-1 to force Game 3 tomorrow night.

[Image: d1753dd84cd4b1e5f54671f8624bf551.gif]
06-14-2021 09:59 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #124
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-14-2021 09:59 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 08:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  ND just beat Mississippi State 9-1 to force Game 3 tomorrow night.

[Image: d1753dd84cd4b1e5f54671f8624bf551.gif]

So are you saying that State was their Huckleberry!
06-14-2021 10:07 PM
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Post: #125
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
Congratulations Mississippi State!
I like them along with Stanford as my favorites to win it all. Not sure who has the edge yet!?!?!
06-14-2021 11:11 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #126
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1
06-14-2021 11:12 PM
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Post: #127
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-14-2021 09:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Mississippi State 11 Notre Dame 7

Mississippi State gives the SEC 3 schools at the CWS.

Hail State!
06-15-2021 04:16 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #128
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
Congrats to Mississippi State. They were the better team.

Good luck to them in Omaha.
06-15-2021 05:23 AM
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Post: #129
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 07:07 AM by ken d.)
06-15-2021 07:05 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #130
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

The funny thing about baseball is the relative swing between the SEC and B1G. In the first 20 years of the CWS, from 1947 - 1966, the B1G won six national titles. But the B1G has not won a national title since then, 55 years ago.

In contrast, the SEC did not win a CWS until 1990, the 44th year of the CWS. Since that year, the SEC has won 12 of the last 30 national titles.

The threads of consistency throughout have been the PAC and what are now Big 12 schools. The PAC has won consistently, it's first title was in 1947, it's most recent in 2018.

The Big 12 is in a drought. Texas and Oklahoma schools also have a long history of success in the CWS, but they haven't won the title since 2005. Texas looks strong so very well may do it.

The ACC is also a strange case. The ACC has been a strong player, putting loads of teams in to the tournament and many in to the CWS. But they rarely win the title, they have only done so twice, in 2015 and 1953. FSU is the huge sticking point here - since the introduction of super regionals in 1999, FSU has been to more of them, 17, than anyone else, but still has no CWS title. Virginia and NC State both pulled rabbits out of the hat to win their super regionals, so they are strong contenders for the title, IMO.

So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 07:44 AM by quo vadis.)
06-15-2021 07:43 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #131
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

A very good question. I know Saint Louis (A10) has been very strong in men's soccer. Clearly, UConn women in hoops via the AAC and now the Big East.

The Big West has fielded some strong baseball programs over the years.

But overall, the A5/P5 generally dominates in the high-profile team sports. It simply has more programs of quality and, thus, can land a variety of teams in the various tourneys over a long span of time.

As to individual sports and the lesser-visible team sports (tennis, golf, bowling, lacrosse, volleyball, etc.) ... I'm not sure.
06-15-2021 08:50 AM
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Post: #132
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

The funny thing about baseball is the relative swing between the SEC and B1G. In the first 20 years of the CWS, from 1947 - 1966, the B1G won six national titles. But the B1G has not won a national title since then, 55 years ago.

In contrast, the SEC did not win a CWS until 1990, the 44th year of the CWS. Since that year, the SEC has won 12 of the last 30 national titles.

The threads of consistency throughout have been the PAC and what are now Big 12 schools. The PAC has won consistently, it's first title was in 1947, it's most recent in 2018.

The Big 12 is in a drought. Texas and Oklahoma schools also have a long history of success in the CWS, but they haven't won the title since 2005. Texas looks strong so very well may do it.

The ACC is also a strange case. The ACC has been a strong player, putting loads of teams in to the tournament and many in to the CWS. But they rarely win the title, they have only done so twice, in 2015 and 1953. FSU is the huge sticking point here - since the introduction of super regionals in 1999, FSU has been to more of them, 17, than anyone else, but still has no CWS title. Virginia and NC State both pulled rabbits out of the hat to win their super regionals, so they are strong contenders for the title, IMO.

So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

There is no mystery about the Big 10 and baseball, or as to why the post WWII South didn't win a lot of NCAA baseball titles.

When the Northern Midwest was pumping industrially you had a lot of middle class boys filling their rosters in college. The South was mostly agricultural with a few wealthy landowners and a lot of farms that were just big enough for subsistence and certainly not much demand on higher ed. Southern boys lived baseball. Towns had semi-pro teams, large towns might have a single A franchise and cities would definitely have a AA or AAA club. Northern Middle Class boys went to State Colleges to play and get an education. Southern boys signed contracts to leave the farm. Kids who couldn't play well stayed with the family and farmed. So it's not like SEC schools couldn't play baseball, but rather most recruits would rather play at some level professionally. Now college ball essentially is AA ball.

And to Ken D the P5 are apex predators because of revenue and they are advertised as such to make ESPN's lineup look more appealing. It's what we all once called a "vicious cycle".
06-15-2021 10:00 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #133
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-06-2021 12:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-06-2021 08:23 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND missed two extra points in beating UConn 26-3 yesterday.

It beat Central Michigan 10-0 on Friday.

Now, I have probably jinxed them, but the UConn/CMU winner at noon today must beat ND twice in South Bend or the Irish advance to a superregional matchup with Mississippi State.

IIRC, that has not been decided yet. Mississippi State is in the driver's seat in their regional like ND is in theirs, but like ND they still need to win another game, tonight or tomorrow, to win their regional.

(06-15-2021 10:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

The funny thing about baseball is the relative swing between the SEC and B1G. In the first 20 years of the CWS, from 1947 - 1966, the B1G won six national titles. But the B1G has not won a national title since then, 55 years ago.

In contrast, the SEC did not win a CWS until 1990, the 44th year of the CWS. Since that year, the SEC has won 12 of the last 30 national titles.

The threads of consistency throughout have been the PAC and what are now Big 12 schools. The PAC has won consistently, it's first title was in 1947, it's most recent in 2018.

The Big 12 is in a drought. Texas and Oklahoma schools also have a long history of success in the CWS, but they haven't won the title since 2005. Texas looks strong so very well may do it.

The ACC is also a strange case. The ACC has been a strong player, putting loads of teams in to the tournament and many in to the CWS. But they rarely win the title, they have only done so twice, in 2015 and 1953. FSU is the huge sticking point here - since the introduction of super regionals in 1999, FSU has been to more of them, 17, than anyone else, but still has no CWS title. Virginia and NC State both pulled rabbits out of the hat to win their super regionals, so they are strong contenders for the title, IMO.

So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

There is no mystery about the Big 10 and baseball, or as to why the post WWII South didn't win a lot of NCAA baseball titles.

When the Northern Midwest was pumping industrially you had a lot of middle class boys filling their rosters in college. The South was mostly agricultural with a few wealthy landowners and a lot of farms that were just big enough for subsistence and certainly not much demand on higher ed. Southern boys lived baseball. Towns had semi-pro teams, large towns might have a single A franchise and cities would definitely have a AA or AAA club. Northern Middle Class boys went to State Colleges to play and get an education. Southern boys signed contracts to leave the farm. Kids who couldn't play well stayed with the family and farmed. So it's not like SEC schools couldn't play baseball, but rather most recruits would rather play at some level professionally. Now college ball essentially is AA ball.

And to Ken D the P5 are apex predators because of revenue and they are advertised as such to make ESPN's lineup look more appealing. It's what we all once called a "vicious cycle".

I have read several major league scouts equate college baseball more to Low A and High A baseball than AA, but I agree with the rest of your post.

I am just glad that ND got its head out of its ass and hired a good coach in Link Jarrett.

I enjoyed watching a team picked last in the Atlantic Division by the ACC coaches have the best record in the conference, go 34-13, win a regional and make it to game 3 of the superregionals.

Maybe ND will return to being one of the few Northern/Midwest teams in the college baseball world with a strong, consistent program (like it was when Paul Mainieri was there).

We shall see.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 11:08 AM by TerryD.)
06-15-2021 11:05 AM
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Post: #134
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

The funny thing about baseball is the relative swing between the SEC and B1G. In the first 20 years of the CWS, from 1947 - 1966, the B1G won six national titles. But the B1G has not won a national title since then, 55 years ago.

In contrast, the SEC did not win a CWS until 1990, the 44th year of the CWS. Since that year, the SEC has won 12 of the last 30 national titles.

The threads of consistency throughout have been the PAC and what are now Big 12 schools. The PAC has won consistently, it's first title was in 1947, it's most recent in 2018.

The Big 12 is in a drought. Texas and Oklahoma schools also have a long history of success in the CWS, but they haven't won the title since 2005. Texas looks strong so very well may do it.

The ACC is also a strange case. The ACC has been a strong player, putting loads of teams in to the tournament and many in to the CWS. But they rarely win the title, they have only done so twice, in 2015 and 1953. FSU is the huge sticking point here - since the introduction of super regionals in 1999, FSU has been to more of them, 17, than anyone else, but still has no CWS title. Virginia and NC State both pulled rabbits out of the hat to win their super regionals, so they are strong contenders for the title, IMO.

So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

There have been a few exceptions, but conferences north of the sunbelt (in general) have a greater challenge for overall competitiveness. Due to weather, southern and California schools get the early starts with practices and home scheduling.
06-15-2021 11:07 AM
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Post: #135
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Maybe ND will return to being one of the few Northern/Midwest teams in the college baseball world with a strong, consistent program (like it was when Paul Mainieri was there).

Where the players live from age 10-18 has a lot more to do with it than where the college is located.

High school age (and younger) baseball and softball players in the sun belt play year-round. A travel team can practice outdoors all winter with only the occasional day indoors at the batting cages and have multiple options for playing league schedules or tournaments within a 2-hour drive even in January and February. Playing year round is a big edge, in general.

Notre Dame ought to be able to recruit in the south and west better than most schools that are in the upper midwest, though they have to travel to recruit whereas coaches in the sun belt can easily drive to travel ball tournaments year round where they see lots of elite prospects in a weekend. It's possible for a school outside the sun belt to get enough good players to be elite in college ball by absolutely dominating recruiting in its own region, like Oregon State baseball did when they won their first two national titles, but that's a very unlikely scenario.
06-15-2021 11:40 AM
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Post: #136
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-06-2021 12:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-06-2021 08:23 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND missed two extra points in beating UConn 26-3 yesterday.

It beat Central Michigan 10-0 on Friday.

Now, I have probably jinxed them, but the UConn/CMU winner at noon today must beat ND twice in South Bend or the Irish advance to a superregional matchup with Mississippi State.

IIRC, that has not been decided yet. Mississippi State is in the driver's seat in their regional like ND is in theirs, but like ND they still need to win another game, tonight or tomorrow, to win their regional.

(06-15-2021 10:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SEC ......... 3
PAC ......... 2
ACC ......... 2
B12 .......... 1

That has a familiar look to it. Is there a sport that the A5 conferences don't dominate? Will there ever be in the future?

The funny thing about baseball is the relative swing between the SEC and B1G. In the first 20 years of the CWS, from 1947 - 1966, the B1G won six national titles. But the B1G has not won a national title since then, 55 years ago.

In contrast, the SEC did not win a CWS until 1990, the 44th year of the CWS. Since that year, the SEC has won 12 of the last 30 national titles.

The threads of consistency throughout have been the PAC and what are now Big 12 schools. The PAC has won consistently, it's first title was in 1947, it's most recent in 2018.

The Big 12 is in a drought. Texas and Oklahoma schools also have a long history of success in the CWS, but they haven't won the title since 2005. Texas looks strong so very well may do it.

The ACC is also a strange case. The ACC has been a strong player, putting loads of teams in to the tournament and many in to the CWS. But they rarely win the title, they have only done so twice, in 2015 and 1953. FSU is the huge sticking point here - since the introduction of super regionals in 1999, FSU has been to more of them, 17, than anyone else, but still has no CWS title. Virginia and NC State both pulled rabbits out of the hat to win their super regionals, so they are strong contenders for the title, IMO.

So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

There is no mystery about the Big 10 and baseball, or as to why the post WWII South didn't win a lot of NCAA baseball titles.

When the Northern Midwest was pumping industrially you had a lot of middle class boys filling their rosters in college. The South was mostly agricultural with a few wealthy landowners and a lot of farms that were just big enough for subsistence and certainly not much demand on higher ed. Southern boys lived baseball. Towns had semi-pro teams, large towns might have a single A franchise and cities would definitely have a AA or AAA club. Northern Middle Class boys went to State Colleges to play and get an education. Southern boys signed contracts to leave the farm. Kids who couldn't play well stayed with the family and farmed. So it's not like SEC schools couldn't play baseball, but rather most recruits would rather play at some level professionally. Now college ball essentially is AA ball.

And to Ken D the P5 are apex predators because of revenue and they are advertised as such to make ESPN's lineup look more appealing. It's what we all once called a "vicious cycle".

I have read several major league scouts equate college baseball more to Low A and High A baseball than AA, but I agree with the rest of your post.

I am just glad that ND got its head out of its ass and hired a good coach in Link Jarrett.

I enjoyed watching a team picked last in the Atlantic Division by the ACC coaches have the best record in the conference, go 34-13, win a regional and make it to game 3 of the superregionals.

Maybe ND will return to being one of the few Northern/Midwest teams in the college baseball world with a strong, consistent program (like it was when Paul Mainieri was there).

We shall see.


Great season from the Irish and big congrats, TerryD. I often loosely root for Notre Dame sports (for various reasons). But I do hope that if ND continues to improve in baseball, it will not be at the expense of Indiana Hoosier baseball.
06-15-2021 01:33 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 11:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Maybe ND will return to being one of the few Northern/Midwest teams in the college baseball world with a strong, consistent program (like it was when Paul Mainieri was there).

Where the players live from age 10-18 has a lot more to do with it than where the college is located.

High school age (and younger) baseball and softball players in the sun belt play year-round. A travel team can practice outdoors all winter with only the occasional day indoors at the batting cages and have multiple options for playing league schedules or tournaments within a 2-hour drive even in January and February. Playing year round is a big edge, in general.

Notre Dame ought to be able to recruit in the south and west better than most schools that are in the upper midwest, though they have to travel to recruit whereas coaches in the sun belt can easily drive to travel ball tournaments year round where they see lots of elite prospects in a weekend. It's possible for a school outside the sun belt to get enough good players to be elite in college ball by absolutely dominating recruiting in its own region, like Oregon State baseball did when they won their first two national titles, but that's a very unlikely scenario.

I think that who you are and where you are present certain challenges, but that they can be overcome.

ND tuition is over $60k plus room/board and a baseball program is only allowed 11.7 scholarships, but I think ND can figure out how to handle that issue.

Academic issues are less of a factor in baseball than football, but still exist somewhat in whom you can recruit.

It is a bit different than at LSU with lower tuition, a TOPPS program tuition waiver and home grown talent nearby.

But, I get your point and agree with it. I think ND may likely become a national baseball power, as long as it keeps its coach.

(A huge alumni donation was just made to endow that coaching position, so ND just needs to not refuse admission to Jarrett's kid like they did Manieri's in 2006.)
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 02:38 PM by TerryD.)
06-15-2021 02:36 PM
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Post: #138
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

In 2019, the Michigan baseball team got to the CWS championship game before losing to Vanderbilt. They were one win away from winning it all. The stunned No. 1 seeded UCLA in the Super Regional 2-1 and had No. 2 seeded Vanderbilt down 1-0 in the CWS final. They were the first Big Ten Conference team to advance to the championship round in the College World Series since Ohio State in 1966.

The Michigan head coach (Erik Bakich) stressed diversity on his 35 man roster, with seven black players and he was recruiting the country, with players from 11 different states. He had 8 players from Michigan, 6 players from California, 6 players from Wisconsin, 5 from Illinois, two from Washington, 2 from Georgia, 2 from Indiana, and one each from Oregon, Colorado, Arizona, and Massachusetts. He wanted a team that looked like America.

Maybe that is a formula that could work in the Big Ten or at least for Michigan. It almost worked in 2019 and unfortunately, the 2020 season was lost and they did not play anyone in non-conference play in 2021, which did not help Michigan. Obviously, being in the South or the West is advantageous for baseball talent. The 2019 UCLA team had 34 players from California on their 35 man roster. One player was from the state of Washington. Both UCLA and Vanderbilt had 13 players selected in the 2019 MLB draft. Those two teams were loaded and Michigan outplayed UCLA and definitely put a scare into Vanderbilt. So maybe there is hope for the Big Ten in baseball.
06-15-2021 06:20 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #139
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 02:36 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 11:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Maybe ND will return to being one of the few Northern/Midwest teams in the college baseball world with a strong, consistent program (like it was when Paul Mainieri was there).

Where the players live from age 10-18 has a lot more to do with it than where the college is located.

High school age (and younger) baseball and softball players in the sun belt play year-round. A travel team can practice outdoors all winter with only the occasional day indoors at the batting cages and have multiple options for playing league schedules or tournaments within a 2-hour drive even in January and February. Playing year round is a big edge, in general.

Notre Dame ought to be able to recruit in the south and west better than most schools that are in the upper midwest, though they have to travel to recruit whereas coaches in the sun belt can easily drive to travel ball tournaments year round where they see lots of elite prospects in a weekend. It's possible for a school outside the sun belt to get enough good players to be elite in college ball by absolutely dominating recruiting in its own region, like Oregon State baseball did when they won their first two national titles, but that's a very unlikely scenario.

I think that who you are and where you are present certain challenges, but that they can be overcome.

ND tuition is over $60k plus room/board and a baseball program is only allowed 11.7 scholarships, but I think ND can figure out how to handle that issue.

Academic issues are less of a factor in baseball than football, but still exist somewhat in whom you can recruit.

It is a bit different than at LSU with lower tuition, a TOPPS program tuition waiver and home grown talent nearby.

But, I get your point and agree with it. I think ND may likely become a national baseball power, as long as it keeps its coach.

(A huge alumni donation was just made to endow that coaching position, so ND just needs to not refuse admission to Jarrett's kid like they did Manieri's in 2006.)

Cal had that issue with one of Cuonzo Martin's sons when Martin was the Cal basketball coach. Martin probably would have left anyway, though.
06-15-2021 06:24 PM
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Post: #140
RE: 2021 NCAA Baseball Tournament
(06-15-2021 06:20 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  So the big deal is getting the B1G back in to the game, so to speak.

In 2019, the Michigan baseball team got to the CWS championship game before losing to Vanderbilt. They were one win away from winning it all.

Yes, we have seen signs of life from B1G baseball the last couple years. I suspect that B1G money is so big now that they feel comfortable investing in it, given that it is about the 3rd or 4th most important college sport.

We can only hope so, as it helps the profile of college baseball to have the B1G committed to it.
06-15-2021 06:26 PM
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