(06-07-2021 04:52 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 04:09 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  The first 4 pages of this thread were comical to say the least. My question now is what happens to the remainder of the Southland since McNeese has made it public that they desire to leave the league as well.

Is McNeese the best remaining school in the Southland?

Without having too much knowledge of the Southland, I always had McNeese St in the same top tier category with Lamar, Sam Houston St, and Stephen F. Austin.

(06-07-2021 04:17 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 04:09 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  The first 4 pages of this thread were comical to say the least. My question now is what happens to the remainder of the Southland since McNeese has made it public that they desire to leave the league as well.

Where will they go? Will the WAC choose them over WTAMU? Can they make it as an independent? I doubt it.

I’ll be surprised if the WAC adds McNeese. Even though the reality is that three of the incoming new conference members are within a two-hour drive of the Louisiana border, I just don’t think the WAC wants its footprint to stretch into a state that’s viewed nationally as southern rather than southwestern. It would bring back memories of when Louisiana Tech was a geographic outlier in the conference and undermine the image the WAC is trying to create of no longer being irrationally far-flung.

Im starting the think the Southland could be in real trouble. It certainly isnt going to be anywhere near the conference it used to be.

Midwestern State to the Southland.

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

Possible. I also think Midwestern (along the Oklahoma border in Wichita Falls) would have a safe landing place in the D2 Oklahoma based Great American Conference if the LSC imploded

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

OK. I could be wrong, but I assume that most schools upgrading to Division I add sports to meet minimums. No? And is it that hard to add men's indoor and outdoor track, plus cross country? Bam, 8 men's sports, maaaaybe hire another track coach for the increased workload.

5 mens sports, 7 womens is the same as A&M Kingsville or A&M Commerce. In other words, pretty much anyone the Southland targets from the Lone Star Conference. (Assuming that WTA&M goes to the WAC.)

We haven't really looked at the Oklahoma/Arkansas schools in the Great American Conference, are any of them less implausible than the Lone Star schools?

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

(06-08-2021 02:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

OK. I could be wrong, but I assume that most schools upgrading to Division I add sports to meet minimums. No? And is it that hard to add men's indoor and outdoor track, plus cross country? Bam, 8 men's sports, maaaaybe hire another track coach for the increased workload.

5 mens sports, 7 womens is the same as A&M Kingsville or A&M Commerce. In other words, pretty much anyone the Southland targets from the Lone Star Conference. (Assuming that WTA&M goes to the WAC.)

We haven't really looked at the Oklahoma/Arkansas schools in the Great American Conference, are any of them less implausible than the Lone Star schools?

Every school that has moved from D2 to D1 in the last decade has had at least 7/7 or 6m/8w sports before applying for D1 membership. A&M Commerce has 6m/8w sports and A&M Kingsville has 6m/9w sports. Midwestern is the only LSC football school in Texas below the D1 mins along with four non-football schools. No need to look at any GAC school; Arkansas Tech is one of the more plausible options in the GAC for the SLC and we are not going anywhere.

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

No, it is not a Warped Wall-size obstacle to add a sport. Just saying that only when Midwestern State takes action to add a men's sport then D1 and the Southland becomes an option if they desire.

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 08:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Midwestern State to the Southland.

That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 09:22 PM)AZcats Wrote:  That actually can't happen.*

Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 10:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Um, why not? "Can't happen" is pretty strong.

Midwestern State has been in the Lone Star Conference, and therefore Division II, since the 90s, so they're not subject to some sort of transition rule. I don't know of any other "can't happen" condition.

Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.

(06-09-2021 08:02 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.

And when the student body is 62% female, this is a non-starter. The other option (dropping football and adding 2 sports) is a non-starter politically nor would it attract a D1 invite.

(06-09-2021 09:51 AM)whittx Wrote:  

(06-09-2021 08:02 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.

And when the student body is 62% female, this is a non-starter. The other option (dropping football and adding 2 sports) is a non-starter politically nor would it attract a D1 invite.

I suppose a partial work around would be to cut the number of scholarships for existing men’s sports and give them to the new men’s team sport. That would hold down the total # of new men’s scholarships. Or, more likely plan to add beach volleyball or bowling like several Texas FCs schools have done to deal with this issue.

(06-09-2021 08:02 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 01:29 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Midwestern State has five men's sports which puts them one men's sport short of satisfying D1 minimums. We've already talked about it on this board a few times. Until MSU adds a men's sport, they can't join D1 or the Southland.

So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.

You are missing the point. The StuRay's original claim was that MSU couldn't upgrade (vs any other DII) because they lacked 6 men's sports.

My reply was that really isn't a big deal, since you could add a cheap men's sports.

The other costs that you mention would apply to ANY DII move-up, not just MSU.

Southland could invite ULM.

Perfect fit.

(06-09-2021 11:23 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-09-2021 08:02 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(06-08-2021 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So they can join if they add a men's sport. Not a huge hurdle. You are making it sound like there is a big obstacle.

There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.

You are missing the point. The StuRay's original claim was that MSU couldn't upgrade (vs any other DII) because they lacked 6 men's sports.

My reply was that really isn't a big deal, since you could add a cheap men's sports.

The other costs that you mention would apply to ANY DII move-up, not just MSU.

But the argument did kick over a rock that some of us haven't thought of--we're (ahem, I'm) pulling up Lone Star Conference maps on wikipedia, maybe taking a quick look at enrollment numbers, and saying "I guess the Southland takes A&M Kingsville and A&M Commerce to shore up football." EDIT: And, furthermore, that 3 openings in the WAC and Southland make the Lone Star (football) Conference unstable, which means West Texas A&M pretty much has to make a move. (And WTA&M would pick the WAC)

But what Stugray (I think) is saying, maybe too concisely, is that most Division II schools aren't in the position that West Texas A&M is or (I assume) Tarleton State and Dixie State were a couple of years ago, where they wer 80 or 90% prepared for Division I, mostly just lacking an invite.

Is that about right? When Dixie State and Tarleton State were invited, did they have to add a couple of sports, in addition to adding scholarships and everything else?

(06-09-2021 12:03 PM)dawgonit Wrote:  Southland could invite ULM.

Perfect fit.

That was their first choice!