(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

I feel like that's a mischaracterization of Temple -- they did have a bad season last year, but prior to that they made 5 straight bowls (although won just once), appeared in the CCG twice (2015 & 2016), and won the CCG once (2016). Certainly not dominant, but certainly not a bottom-feeder either.

(06-05-2021 02:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

I feel like that's a mischaracterization of Temple -- they did have a bad season last year, but prior to that they made 5 straight bowls (although won just once), appeared in the CCG twice (2015 & 2016), and won the CCG once (2016). Certainly not dominant, but certainly not a bottom-feeder either.

Agree, but the bigger point whether it’s then or someone else nobody is going to get kicked to the curb.

I think Temple has made progress while East Carolina has regressed. I believe having Charlotte, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, Liberty, South Alabama, Western Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State and Georgia Southern make the jump to FBS has hurt ECU more than any other FBS program with the exception of Southern Miss. Those two used to recruit players that wanted to play Div I-A or FBS football but were not recruited by BCS/P5 schools. They were the best alternative in a region that had fewer FBS schools. The rise of UCF, USF, FAU and FIU didn’t help either.

(06-05-2021 02:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

I feel like that's a mischaracterization of Temple -- they did have a bad season last year, but prior to that they made 5 straight bowls (although won just once), appeared in the CCG twice (2015 & 2016), and won the CCG once (2016). Certainly not dominant, but certainly not a bottom-feeder either.

I agree, I think Temple adds value to the AAC, especially with their basketball history. Honestly if they just had an OCS they would probably be seen as a valuable member of the AAC. Their football has been very improved recently (with the exception of last season), and they could likely continue the success, but unfortunately it looks like they made a bad hire which could set them back a bit.

When people won’t recognize the work at Temple football for what has really been more than a decade now, they spew stuff like that. Especially within the more challenging AAC? Come on, now.

But, even if Temple was less consistent, they and Tulane still sort of capture a problem with the power perception thing, both having been in major conferences at one time. Not unlike SMU, who was pulse-less in both football and basketball for a very long time there. Those guys need to go somewhere, and we know they also reside in desirable locations for markets and recruitment. The ECU’s of the world, no matter how good they get again, just won’t ever seemingly pass any sight test for reasons that they can’t help, whereas others go right in.

And you would definitely want Temple basketball in your conference.

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

Then the AAC would become the tallest midget. Yay. But if BYU was P5 material they'd already be in a P5 conference. The P5 aint sharing their money.. no way, no how.

(06-07-2021 11:22 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

Then the AAC would become the tallest midget. Yay. But if BYU was P5 material they'd already be in a P5 conference. The P5 aint sharing their money.. no way, no how.

I definitely think BYU is P5 material: from a pure economic standpoint, they are a P5 school without a question. However, there are social/political reasons for why there's a lot of pushback from other P5 schools on inviting them as a member. It's a case where the money isn't an issue, but rather whether BYU's stances on certain issues inherently conflict with the policies that are going to be intractable at many P5 universities.

On the flip side (and I've said this many times previously), it's water under the bridge because BYU isn't joining a G5 conference as long as Utah is in a P5 league. It doesn't matter how much the AAC might offer in terms of money or even a better chance at a playoff spot. In no uncertain terms, BYU *cannot* be allow itself to be structurally inferior to Utah and joining any G5 league (even the best one) means completely admitting that it's structurally inferior. People might say that this doesn't make sense or emotional or they are giving up playoff/NY6 bowl access or they're being delusional elitists, yadda yadda yadda, but the BYU leadership (AKA the leadership of the LDS church) DGAF on that front. Perception is reality for them.

BYU is the very rare case where it actually *isn't* about the money, whether it's about a P5 conference inviting them or BYU accepting an invite from a G5 conference.

(06-07-2021 06:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  When people won’t recognize the work at Temple football for what has really been more than a decade now, they spew stuff like that. Especially within the more challenging AAC? Come on, now.

But, even if Temple was less consistent, they and Tulane still sort of capture a problem with the power perception thing, both having been in major conferences at one time. Not unlike SMU, who was pulse-less in both football and basketball for a very long time there. Those guys need to go somewhere, and we know they also reside in desirable locations for markets and recruitment. The ECU’s of the world, no matter how good they get again, just won’t ever seemingly pass any sight test for reasons that they can’t help, whereas others go right in.

And you would definitely want Temple basketball in your conference.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

(06-07-2021 12:11 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 06:51 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  When people won’t recognize the work at Temple football for what has really been more than a decade now, they spew stuff like that. Especially within the more challenging AAC? Come on, now.

But, even if Temple was less consistent, they and Tulane still sort of capture a problem with the power perception thing, both having been in major conferences at one time. Not unlike SMU, who was pulse-less in both football and basketball for a very long time there. Those guys need to go somewhere, and we know they also reside in desirable locations for markets and recruitment. The ECU’s of the world, no matter how good they get again, just won’t ever seemingly pass any sight test for reasons that they can’t help, whereas others go right in.

And you would definitely want Temple basketball in your conference.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

This gets back to the point of "think like a university president and not like a sports fan" - Temple and Tulane are actually the types of schools that are much more like P5 institutions regardless of performance. So, if the idea is to create something that you can argue is a 6th power conference (which I think is a fool's errand because the P5 will just pick off the most valuable parts rather than elevate an entire league, but I digress), then you honestly need more Temples and Tulanes than city/directional schools. The only true "city school" in the P5 is Louisville (note that Pitt is a top tier AAU research institution that is akin to a flagship, so it's not a "city school") and there aren't any directional schools at all in the P5 (and no one should be obtuse enough to bring up USC as supposedly being a directional school - private universities don't count).

I am hugely pleased to have Temple in the AAC. It's a massive university located in a major city and it offers a fantastic hoops history.

(06-07-2021 12:59 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I am hugely pleased to have Temple in the AAC. It's a massive university located in a major city and it offers a fantastic hoops history.

Yup. Temple has actually fielded a solid football squad more often than not. Their program has been a pleasant surprise in my opinion. Hopefully, Carey gets things turned around.

(06-07-2021 02:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 12:59 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I am hugely pleased to have Temple in the AAC. It's a massive university located in a major city and it offers a fantastic hoops history.

Yup. Temple has actually fielded a solid football squad more often than not. Their program has been a pleasant surprise in my opinion. Hopefully, Carey gets things turned around.

Yes, the notion of dropping Temple is stupid, IMO. Temple is an above-average member of the AAC on just about every relevant metric.

In football, in seven seasons they've had a winning record and gone to bowls five times, an even record once (2014) and a losing record once, this past season with the virus which IMO is kind of a throw-out thing. They've won their AAC division twice and the conference title once.

And academically they are about a #100 national university.

If we had to start eliminating AAC members one by one, Temple would be in the last three - five schools eliminated.

(06-07-2021 11:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 11:22 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

Then the AAC would become the tallest midget. Yay. But if BYU was P5 material they'd already be in a P5 conference. The P5 aint sharing their money.. no way, no how.

I definitely think BYU is P5 material: from a pure economic standpoint, they are a P5 school without a question. However, there are social/political reasons for why there's a lot of pushback from other P5 schools on inviting them as a member. It's a case where the money isn't an issue, but rather whether BYU's stances on certain issues inherently conflict with the policies that are going to be intractable at many P5 universities.

On the flip side (and I've said this many times previously), it's water under the bridge because BYU isn't joining a G5 conference as long as Utah is in a P5 league. It doesn't matter how much the AAC might offer in terms of money or even a better chance at a playoff spot. In no uncertain terms, BYU *cannot* be allow itself to be structurally inferior to Utah and joining any G5 league (even the best one) means completely admitting that it's structurally inferior. People might say that this doesn't make sense or emotional or they are giving up playoff/NY6 bowl access or they're being delusional elitists, yadda yadda yadda, but the BYU leadership (AKA the leadership of the LDS church) DGAF on that front. Perception is reality for them.

BYU is the very rare case where it actually *isn't* about the money, whether it's about a P5 conference inviting them or BYU accepting an invite from a G5 conference.

BYU may be the equivalent or near-equivalent of a power school, academically and in most other respects, but a strong argument can be made that a few of the other universities on this list are, as well:

FBS universities that have already been members of power conferences:

Cincinnati#@^ (Big East; R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Houston#@^ (SWC; R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Connecticut#@+ (R1; Big East; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Temple#@ (R1; Big East FB; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

SMU#@ (SWC; final top-25 MBB, 2014-17; ranked FB teams, 2019-20)

Rice# (SWC; R1; AAU Member)

Tulane# (SEC; R1; AAU Member)

South Florida (R1; Big East)


# Has played in a Rose, Cotton, Sugar, Orange, or (2014-21) NY6 bowl game, and/or has advanced to the semifinal round of the NCAA basketball tournament (final four).

@ Has been credited with a football or basketball national championship, has played in a national championship game, or has finished 1+ seasons as the #1 or #2 ranked football or basketball team in the nation.

^ Has had final top 25 football and basketball teams in the past decade.

+State Flagship University

*https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-greatest-college-basketball-programs-ever-ranking-the-top-teams-of-all-time/



Other FBS universities with P5-quality football and basketball programs:

BYU#@^ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Memphis#@^ (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

San Diego State^ (has had top 25 FB and MBB teams since 2015)



Other FBS universities with P5 or potential P5-quality FB or MBB programs:

Boise State# (has had thirteen final AP top 25 football teams since 2000)

UCF# (R1; has had five final AP top 25 football teams since 2010)

Army@ (#19-ranked football team in 2018 final AP top 25)

Navy#@ (#18 football team in 2015; #20 football team in 2019 final AP top 25)

Air Force# (#22-ranked football team in 2019 final AP top 25)



FBS Universities that have some of the features associated with P5 universities:

UNLV#@ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")

UTEP#@ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

New Mexico State# (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Utah State (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

WKU# (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

--WKU had #24-ranked football team in the final 2015 AP top 25; 2013 NCAA team.

Hawaii#+ (R1 University)

Marshall (#23-ranked football team in the final 2014 AP top 25; 2018 NCAA team).

Wyoming#+

Tulsa# (#24 CFP-ranked football team in 2020; 2 NCAA MBB teams since 2013)

Massachusetts@+ (R1 University)

Buffalo+ (AAU Member; R1 University)

Alabama-Birmingham (R1 University; #31 in all-time basketball winning percentage)

University of Nevada, Reno+ (R1 University)

University of New Mexico+ (R1 University)


Up-and-coming FBS University football programs:

Appalachian State (Leads all FBS teams in current football winning percentage)

Louisiana-Lafayette (#15 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

Coastal Carolina (#14 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

Liberty (#17 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

(06-07-2021 02:27 PM)JamesTKirk Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 11:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 11:22 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(06-05-2021 01:46 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

Then the AAC would become the tallest midget. Yay. But if BYU was P5 material they'd already be in a P5 conference. The P5 aint sharing their money.. no way, no how.

I definitely think BYU is P5 material: from a pure economic standpoint, they are a P5 school without a question. However, there are social/political reasons for why there's a lot of pushback from other P5 schools on inviting them as a member. It's a case where the money isn't an issue, but rather whether BYU's stances on certain issues inherently conflict with the policies that are going to be intractable at many P5 universities.

On the flip side (and I've said this many times previously), it's water under the bridge because BYU isn't joining a G5 conference as long as Utah is in a P5 league. It doesn't matter how much the AAC might offer in terms of money or even a better chance at a playoff spot. In no uncertain terms, BYU *cannot* be allow itself to be structurally inferior to Utah and joining any G5 league (even the best one) means completely admitting that it's structurally inferior. People might say that this doesn't make sense or emotional or they are giving up playoff/NY6 bowl access or they're being delusional elitists, yadda yadda yadda, but the BYU leadership (AKA the leadership of the LDS church) DGAF on that front. Perception is reality for them.

BYU is the very rare case where it actually *isn't* about the money, whether it's about a P5 conference inviting them or BYU accepting an invite from a G5 conference.

BYU may be the equivalent or near-equivalent of a power school, academically and in most other respects, but a strong argument can be made that a few of the other universities on this list are, as well:

FBS universities that have already been members of power conferences:

Cincinnati#@^ (Big East; R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Houston#@^ (SWC; R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Connecticut#@+ (R1; Big East; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Temple#@ (R1; Big East FB; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

SMU#@ (SWC; final top-25 MBB, 2014-17; ranked FB teams, 2019-20)

Rice# (SWC; R1; AAU Member)

Tulane# (SEC; R1; AAU Member)

South Florida (R1; Big East)


# Has played in a Rose, Cotton, Sugar, Orange, or (2014-21) NY6 bowl game, and/or has advanced to the semifinal round of the NCAA basketball tournament (final four).

@ Has been credited with a football or basketball national championship, has played in a national championship game, or has finished 1+ seasons as the #1 or #2 ranked football or basketball team in the nation.

^ Has had final top 25 football and basketball teams in the past decade.

+State Flagship University

*https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-greatest-college-basketball-programs-ever-ranking-the-top-teams-of-all-time/



Other FBS universities with P5-quality football and basketball programs:

BYU#@^ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Memphis#@^ (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

San Diego State^ (has had top 25 FB and MBB teams since 2015)



Other FBS universities with P5 or potential P5-quality FB or MBB programs:

Boise State# (has had thirteen final AP top 25 football teams since 2000)

UCF# (R1; has had five final AP top 25 football teams since 2010)

Army@ (#19-ranked football team in 2018 final AP top 25)

Navy#@ (#18 football team in 2015; #20 football team in 2019 final AP top 25)

Air Force# (#22-ranked football team in 2019 final AP top 25)



FBS Universities that have some of the features associated with P5 universities:

UNLV#@ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")

UTEP#@ (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

New Mexico State# (R1; one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

Utah State (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

WKU# (one of the "greatest college basketball programs ever")*

--WKU had #24-ranked football team in the final 2015 AP top 25; 2013 NCAA team.

Hawaii#+ (R1 University)

Marshall (#23-ranked football team in the final 2014 AP top 25; 2018 NCAA team).

Wyoming#+

Tulsa# (#24 CFP-ranked football team in 2020; 2 NCAA MBB teams since 2013)

Massachusetts@+ (R1 University)

Buffalo+ (AAU Member; R1 University)

Alabama-Birmingham (R1 University; #31 in all-time basketball winning percentage)

University of Nevada, Reno+ (R1 University)

University of New Mexico+ (R1 University)


Up-and-coming FBS University football programs:

Appalachian State (Leads all FBS teams in current football winning percentage)

Louisiana-Lafayette (#15 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

Coastal Carolina (#14 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

Liberty (#17 ranked football team in final 2020 AP top 25).

I enjoyed perusing this info. Good work.

Maybe I should stay out of this thread, given my allegiances ... but as a former member of the American Conference, I like BOTH Temple and East Carolina.

We had battles with both, in both, football and basketball, winning some, and losing some. I personally enjoyed trips to Philly and Greenville to watch games.


I just don't know about this idea that you can elevate your conference by cutting the bottom dwellers.

(06-07-2021 05:52 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Maybe I should stay out of this thread, given my allegiances ... but as a former member of the American Conference, I like BOTH Temple and East Carolina.

We had battles with both, in both, football and basketball, winning some, and losing some. I personally enjoyed trips to Philly and Greenville to watch games.


I just don't know about this idea that you can elevate your conference by cutting the bottom dwellers.

You can, just look at UConn's exit from the conference. That said it'd be foolish at this time to do so given the fact that if any of our members get a call from the Big 12 they're gone and the logos are all changed in a heartbeat. Everyone in the AAC is here because they're the best teams from the non-autonomous conferences, including ECU & Temple. The only teams offered that didn't join are BYU (couldn't come to an agreement on their tv deal), Boise, SDSU (both joined originally before the MW threw themselves over a barrel and begged Boise to stay) & Air Force (hindsight glad we don't have 2 service academies).

We'd really have come full circle if BYU, Boise & SDSU join the AAC. It'll be interesting when everything is done behind the scenes if BYU's pride of not wanting to appear "lesser than" Utah leaves them out as an independent again and CSU takes the #14 spot. Especially if the AAC achieves the goal of inclusion in an expanded CFP and BYU passes on their chance to be in a conference that achieves that goal. Which make no mistake about it this potential expansion is all about kneecapping the next closest conference and making it an obvious choice between including the AAC vs a G5 access spot.

(06-07-2021 06:09 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 05:52 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Maybe I should stay out of this thread, given my allegiances ... but as a former member of the American Conference, I like BOTH Temple and East Carolina.

We had battles with both, in both, football and basketball, winning some, and losing some. I personally enjoyed trips to Philly and Greenville to watch games.


I just don't know about this idea that you can elevate your conference by cutting the bottom dwellers.

You can, just look at UConn's exit from the conference. That said it'd be foolish at this time to do so given the fact that if any of our members get a call from the Big 12 they're gone and the logos are all changed in a heartbeat. Everyone in the AAC is here because they're the best teams from the non-autonomous conferences, including ECU & Temple. The only teams offered that didn't join are BYU (couldn't come to an agreement on their tv deal), Boise, SDSU (both joined originally before the MW threw themselves over a barrel and begged Boise to stay) & Air Force (hindsight glad we don't have 2 service academies).

We'd really have come full circle if BYU, Boise & SDSU join the AAC. It'll be interesting when everything is done behind the scenes if BYU's pride of not wanting to appear "lesser than" Utah leaves them out as an independent again and CSU takes the #14 spot. Especially if the AAC achieves the goal of inclusion in an expanded CFP and BYU passes on their chance to be in a conference that achieves that goal. Which make no mistake about it this potential expansion is all about kneecapping the next closest conference and making it an obvious choice between including the AAC vs a G5 access spot.

Well ... I don't see any way that the P5 will just decide to include another conference with their spoils. The greed is way to high.

Hell ... the P5 would be much more likely to use your strategy of "cutting the bottom dwellers" to figure out how to become a P4 before growing to a P6.

Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs
·
1h
I am told by several sources that the AAC is no longer pursuing Boise State. The opposite was true prior to Covid.
Boise State, American Athletic Conference evaluating Broncos joining league as 12th football member...
Boise State and the AAC have each had internal discussions about linking for college football
cbssports.com

(06-07-2021 06:09 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(06-07-2021 05:52 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Maybe I should stay out of this thread, given my allegiances ... but as a former member of the American Conference, I like BOTH Temple and East Carolina.

We had battles with both, in both, football and basketball, winning some, and losing some. I personally enjoyed trips to Philly and Greenville to watch games.


I just don't know about this idea that you can elevate your conference by cutting the bottom dwellers.

You can, just look at UConn's exit from the conference.

This is another example where people need to think like a university president. UConn is a flagship school with very good academics and elite basketball. Those are all attributes of a P5-type school even if their football program was abysmal. Let’s put it this way: if UConn had UCF/Houston-level football performance over the past several years, they’d be in the ACC. UConn has the institutional profile that could (at least on paper) give them power conference options that nearly all G5 schools could simply never have. So, losing UConn was definitely a big loss for the AAC - those are the types of schools that leagues need in order to be considered a power league when it comes to university presidents.

(06-03-2021 12:49 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  

(06-03-2021 11:44 AM)blazr Wrote:  

(06-03-2021 10:43 AM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  

(06-03-2021 08:59 AM)blazr Wrote:  [quote='The Cutter of Bish' pid='17448991' dateline='1622718844']
Pretty sure hanging out in California would be preferred to keeping up appearances in the Gulf states with former Sun Belt squads (sorry USM and UAB).

This is not your daddy’s UAB. But no offense taken. We do results (3-straight divisions titles), 2 of last 3 CUSA champs. New practice facility & stadium. We’ll continue that. If not, that’s on us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is the new pavilion finished yet? I've seen pictures of the stadium, but not the practice field.

It was finished in 2016...looks sweet from the front, too, but would have to drag up an image

*EDIT: See latest post in thread*

Those facilities look very nice. Especially the locker, training, and weight rooms. I hope UNT has something comparable when our athletic center expansion is finished.

This is the tour I was looking for re: UAB's practice facility: