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(05-07-2021 10:23 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:18 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  2013–14 Old Dominion 18–18 9–7 6th CBI Semifinal
2014–15 Old Dominion 27–8 13–5 T–2nd NIT Semifinal
2015–16 Old Dominion 25–13 12–6 T–3rd Vegas 16 Champion
2018–19 Old Dominion 26–9 13–5 1st NCAA Division I First Round

Am I incorrect here?

Depends on your definition of postseason. Does anyone actually consider the CBI or whatever that Vegas thing was a legit postseason appearance? The Dance and the NIT are it (and have always been it) from where I sit.

Exactly. To call the Vegas tournament “post season” is a joke. They were begging teams to come.

(05-07-2021 10:16 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  If you don't want to hear about wrestling, just skip to the next post.

That being said.


Selig's contract listed Title IX compliance as one of his job responsibilities.

He failed so badly at that, he had to cut a sport. Title IX has been on the books for decades. When you do something departmentally that creates a Title IX problem, that's not the law's fault - that's YOUR fault. This was all put into motion months BEFORE the pandemic, so even him citing the pandemic as a rationale is bull$hit and everyone and their mother knows it. He's turned us into Eastern Michigan. That's what we are now athletically. Directional U.

To cut wrestling and dig himself out of the Title IX hole he created, he hired his buddy (Sander, former AD at ETSU and VCU) as a consultant and someone who never worked at a school with intercollegiate wrestling. Sander couldn't actually get paid through ODU despite months of back-and-forth over paperwork, so paid Sander's son's private LLC got paid for the consult in DECEMBER (after my FOIA inquiry to ETSU) and all the while, instructing Sander exactly how to cut wrestling and set up "stipulations" to apply to soccer and baseball to make it look like they were eyeing one of three sports for possible elimination.

His management of the move to FBS football and shift to Conference USA was so woeful, it shows he doesn't have the chops to run an actual D1 athletic department in this climate, not here or any place for that matter, even the freaking Apprentice School.

Almost everything he's done has smelled of cronyism. The best hire was Nikki, who got out of dodge as soon as a better gig opened. I'm also not the only donor/alum who has bolted on account of his mere arrogant, antagonistic presence.

Looks like I know how I can spend my contribution funds through at least 2024 ... somewhere else.

I am not sure title IX was the driving force here, other than 'last in first out' would have dictated that women's volleyball be cut, and that IS a part of Title IX compliance.

Even before the pandemic, ODU knew it had to cut its athletic department budget of about $44 million by $842,000 to account for declining enrollment, as dictated by statutory proscriptions from the State of Va.
Wrestling was a choice because it is a men's sport, and, Old Dominion was the only Conference USA school that still sponsored wrestling, and even then we were competing in the MAC.

Bottom line, a sport had to be cut, and it had to be a men's sport.
This was not about WS but about finance and State law. If it wasn't wrestling, it would have been Baseball or Soccer. How do you choose?

It was all about title IX. Even with adding volleyball and cutting wrestling, we still aren’t compliant but the NCAA gives you more time if you can show you are progressing towards compliance.

The declining enrollment was expected but didn’t actually happen. Our enrollment increased.

(05-07-2021 10:23 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:18 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  2013–14 Old Dominion 18–18 9–7 6th CBI Semifinal
2014–15 Old Dominion 27–8 13–5 T–2nd NIT Semifinal
2015–16 Old Dominion 25–13 12–6 T–3rd Vegas 16 Champion
2018–19 Old Dominion 26–9 13–5 1st NCAA Division I First Round

Am I incorrect here?

Depends on your definition of postseason. Does anyone actually consider the CBI or whatever that Vegas thing was a legit postseason appearance? The Dance and the NIT are it (and have always been it) from where I sit.

Whoops. I actually forgot about the CBI and Vegas 16. Shows how much they matter (to me at least). Id say those are fun distractions, but not "real" post season. Thats the NCAA or NIT. But thanks for the legit clarification. Can see how some would justify the number 4 now.

(05-07-2021 10:23 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:18 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  2013–14 Old Dominion 18–18 9–7 6th CBI Semifinal
2014–15 Old Dominion 27–8 13–5 T–2nd NIT Semifinal
2015–16 Old Dominion 25–13 12–6 T–3rd Vegas 16 Champion
2018–19 Old Dominion 26–9 13–5 1st NCAA Division I First Round

Am I incorrect here?

Depends on your definition of postseason. Does anyone actually consider the CBI or whatever that Vegas thing was a legit postseason appearance? The Dance and the NIT are it (and have always been it) from where I sit.

I concur.

(05-07-2021 10:48 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  It was all about title IX. Even with adding volleyball and cutting wrestling, we still aren’t compliant but the NCAA gives you more time if you can show you are progressing towards compliance.

The declining enrollment was expected but didn’t actually happen. Our enrollment increased.

You are correct about 2020, and about Title IX compliance and NCAA tolerance.
The long term goal had been to gradually add women's sports, not to cut men's in order to placate the NCAA.

However, the discussion about cutting a sport started during the 2017/2018 academic year. ODU's undergraduate enrollment was in steady decline from a peak in 2014. Total enrollment was in steady decline as well except for a grad student bump of 53 students in 2017. Statutorily, ODU had to cut $842,000 after the 2017/2018 school year based on those enrollment figures.

The pandemic may have been a fortuitous device that could be used to justify that which had already been decided.

(05-07-2021 12:04 PM)ODBlue Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:23 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:18 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  2013–14 Old Dominion 18–18 9–7 6th CBI Semifinal
2014–15 Old Dominion 27–8 13–5 T–2nd NIT Semifinal
2015–16 Old Dominion 25–13 12–6 T–3rd Vegas 16 Champion
2018–19 Old Dominion 26–9 13–5 1st NCAA Division I First Round

Am I incorrect here?

Depends on your definition of postseason. Does anyone actually consider the CBI or whatever that Vegas thing was a legit postseason appearance? The Dance and the NIT are it (and have always been it) from where I sit.

I concur.

That's how you all look at it, that is not necessarily how the BOV and/or the Office of The President see it, especially when budgetary calculations are added to the mix.

(05-07-2021 12:08 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 10:48 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  It was all about title IX. Even with adding volleyball and cutting wrestling, we still aren’t compliant but the NCAA gives you more time if you can show you are progressing towards compliance.

The declining enrollment was expected but didn’t actually happen. Our enrollment increased.

You are correct about 2020, and about Title IX compliance and NCAA tolerance.
The long term goal had been to gradually add women's sports, not to cut men's in order to placate the NCAA.

However, the discussion about cutting a sport started during the 2017/2018 academic year. ODU's undergraduate enrollment was in steady decline from a peak in 2014. Total enrollment was in steady decline as well except for a grad student bump of 53 students in 2017. Statutorily, ODU had to cut $842,000 after the 2017/2018 school year based on those enrollment figures.

The pandemic may have been a fortuitous device that could be used to justify that which had already been decided.

Yes, you are correct that they made cuts in fall 2017 expecting a decline in enrollment. But enrollment didn’t actually go down. We’ve been fairly flat regarding enrollment since 2015, apart from the outlier bump of online students of fall 2020 that resulted in a 2.5% increase in total enrollment.

Shows ODU enrollment by year - undergrad, grad, and total.


2011) 19,367 5,386 24,753
2012) 19,612 5,058 24,670
2013) 19,819 5,009 24,828
2014) 20,115 4,817 24,932
2015) 20,101 4,571 24,672
2016) 19,793 4,529 24,322
2017) 19,540 4,835 24,375
2018) 19,372 4,804 24,176
2019) 19,176 4,499 23,675
2020) 19,622 4,664 24,286

(05-07-2021 09:18 AM)LetsGoODU Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 09:13 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 08:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 08:19 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  We didn't opt out of a season of football because we're bad, and to suggest so is pretty disingenuous.

Do you think we would have opted out if we were expected to win CUSA?

We absolutely would have.

Not a chance

Yea there is no possible way that decision would've been made. Get real.

(05-07-2021 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Shows ODU enrollment by year - undergrad, grad, and total.


2011) 19,367 5,386 24,753
2012) 19,612 5,058 24,670
2013) 19,819 5,009 24,828
2014) 20,115 4,817 24,932
2015) 20,101 4,571 24,672
2016) 19,793 4,529 24,322
2017) 19,540 4,835 24,375
2018) 19,372 4,804 24,176
2019) 19,176 4,499 23,675
2020) 19,622 4,664 24,286

I noted 2017 was the year they cut the budget based on an expected decline that didn't occur. And that is shown above. Furthermore, the total enrollment figures show it being a relatively flat change from 2015-2020 with an average year-to-year difference of three-tenths of 1 percent over that time.

(05-07-2021 01:13 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Shows ODU enrollment by year - undergrad, grad, and total.


2011) 19,367 5,386 24,753
2012) 19,612 5,058 24,670
2013) 19,819 5,009 24,828
2014) 20,115 4,817 24,932
2015) 20,101 4,571 24,672
2016) 19,793 4,529 24,322
2017) 19,540 4,835 24,375
2018) 19,372 4,804 24,176
2019) 19,176 4,499 23,675
2020) 19,622 4,664 24,286

I noted 2017 was the year they cut the budget based on an expected decline that didn't occur. And that is shown above. Furthermore, the total enrollment figures show it being a relatively flat change from 2015-2020 with an average year-to-year difference of three-tenths of 1 percent over that time.

Im fine with enrollment in the 24-25k range. Id stay at that level, and just try to start getting the student body much more engaged, and being more selective in who we admit. That plan has worked great for CNU. Plus, Theres really not a ton of space to put more students. Would have been nice if they had built the dorms on the quad twice as high, but that ship has sailed.

(05-07-2021 01:19 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 01:13 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Shows ODU enrollment by year - undergrad, grad, and total.


2011) 19,367 5,386 24,753
2012) 19,612 5,058 24,670
2013) 19,819 5,009 24,828
2014) 20,115 4,817 24,932
2015) 20,101 4,571 24,672
2016) 19,793 4,529 24,322
2017) 19,540 4,835 24,375
2018) 19,372 4,804 24,176
2019) 19,176 4,499 23,675
2020) 19,622 4,664 24,286

I noted 2017 was the year they cut the budget based on an expected decline that didn't occur. And that is shown above. Furthermore, the total enrollment figures show it being a relatively flat change from 2015-2020 with an average year-to-year difference of three-tenths of 1 percent over that time.

Im fine with enrollment in the 24-25k range. Id stay at that level, and just try to start getting the student body much more engaged, and being more selective in who we admit. That plan has worked great for CNU. Plus, Theres really not a ton of space to put more students. Would have been nice if they had built the dorms on the quad twice as high, but that ship has sailed.

I think you’ll be surprised how big the Owens dorm is when you see it in person. It’s got quite the presence from the street level.

(05-07-2021 01:13 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Shows ODU enrollment by year - undergrad, grad, and total.


2011) 19,367 5,386 24,753
2012) 19,612 5,058 24,670
2013) 19,819 5,009 24,828
2014) 20,115 4,817 24,932
2015) 20,101 4,571 24,672
2016) 19,793 4,529 24,322
2017) 19,540 4,835 24,375
2018) 19,372 4,804 24,176
2019) 19,176 4,499 23,675
2020) 19,622 4,664 24,286

I noted 2017 was the year they cut the budget based on an expected decline that didn't occur. And that is shown above. Furthermore, the total enrollment figures show it being a relatively flat change from 2015-2020 with an average year-to-year difference of three-tenths of 1 percent over that time.

Based on predicted slow, but steady decline (as shown above since 2014) the decision was was made in 2018 to NOT add a women's sport, ostensibly softball, but instead to cut a a sport in order to recoup the $800+ thousand dollars that statute required.
So, we not only could not add a program due to budgetary constraints, we had to cut something. That of course had to be a men's program because of Title IX.

When it was decided that it would be Wrestling (around 1 million dollars saved) I don't know. What I do know is that pandemic or not, the decision to cut a men's program had already been made.


EDIT: I saw a post earlier that put all of the responsibility on WS for Title IX compliance. Since it was NOT WS that implemented football, nor WS that enacted the Cox Bill, nor WS that makes Virginia laws governing distribution of funds for public universities, nor WS that ultimately makes final decisions within the University, how should he have handled the issue?

Look, we're all missing the big picture here:

Quote:Wood Extended

I see what you did there.....

(05-07-2021 02:05 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Look, we're all missing the big picture here:

Quote:Wood Extended

I was thinking the same thing. The title of this thread would make a good porn movie.

I heard that after 4 hours, you should see a doctor.

After four hours I am calling all of my old girlfriends

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More wood....is dangerous for you. Be Wise, Peeenywise.

(05-08-2021 09:08 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After four hours I am calling all of my old girlfriends

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Think of what you could accomplish through 2024. How's your heart?