I live out west so I'm all for Boise joining. It would be even better if we can convince BYU and SDSU to join as well.
[/quote]

I agree that BYU is probably the diamond... I doubt that happens though. It is about pride with them. They feel they have to be on at least a par if not above Utah. You look at how they are scheduling now and it is going to be a really hard sale. Yes there are huge advantages for them if they would join but they do not want in any way to look "less then" Utah and the PAC12.... I would argue they would not, but I do not think that is how they see it... and supported by the Church with Billions of dollars in the Bank it is not about the money, like with most schools even as enticing as it would be.

Hey but... at least BSU has a winning record against BYU... I think we are a good second choice.... There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages for both sides to that choice though. Having been faculty I can tell you there is a lot more to conference affiliation that goes way beyond sports. It even extends to academia. That is why academics are often figured in to conference affiliation. There are a whole bunch of things at play.

That being said, I would love for BSU to Join the AAC. BSU has a very unique history that most people never see. ie. the academics. BSU was not even a 4 year school until 1968. Then it had to continue the "community college" service to the local area up up until 2009 when the college of Western Idaho was formed. Now the focus is on creating a true "research university of distinction" They are making huge strides. Just announced another post grad degree offering in engineering today.

For those that do not know, the Basketball program is on the rise as well. Coach Rice was Mark Few's assistant at Gonzaga for 11 years. He has been slowly building a program here at BSU just like I watched him and Few build at Gonzaga. Will we reach the same heights. I don't know, but we are definatly making forward progress every year under Rice.

And men's Basketball has probably had the least success of any of our sports programs over the last 20 years.

(04-22-2021 06:34 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  Hey but... at least BSU has a winning record against BYU... I think we are a good second choice.... There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages for both sides to that choice though. Having been faculty I can tell you there is a lot more to conference affiliation that goes way beyond sports. It even extends to academia. That is why academics are often figured in to conference affiliation. There are a whole bunch of things at play.

That being said, I would love for BSU to Join the AAC. BSU has a very unique history that most people never see. ie. the academics. BSU was not even a 4 year school until 1968. Then it had to continue the "community college" service to the local area up up until 2009 when the college of Western Idaho was formed. Now the focus is on creating a true "research university of distinction" They are making huge strides. Just announced another post grad degree offering in engineering today.

For those that do not know, the Basketball program is on the rise as well. Coach Rice was Mark Few's assistant at Gonzaga for 11 years. He has been slowly building a program here at BSU just like I watched him and Few build at Gonzaga. Will we reach the same heights. I don't know, but we are definatly making forward progress every year under Rice.

And men's Basketball has probably had the least success of any of our sports programs over the last 20 years.

Welcome to the message board. Boise St. has been a major topic of conversation for a long time now, and the more Boise fans that contribute, the more informed the conversations will be.

In some respects - - particularly the strength and consistency of their FB program over the past decade - - the addition of Boise would help more than any other school could.

Personally, unless Boise decides to place its basketball and olympic sports in a western conference, I will continue to believe that the AAC made a mistake by not inviting Boise to join for all-sports.

The AAC Commissioner has stated that the conference has hit a kind of road block and has to come up with a new plan for moving toward A6/P6 status. It was hit by a double-whammy - first, it failed to bring Boise St. aboard as a FB-only member; second, it learned through the grapevine that the proposal to expand the CFP is unlikely to pass as soon as they had hoped it would.

Bringing Boise State aboard may be the only way that the conference can move toward power conference status. If that is the case, then the disadvantages of adding BSU as an all-sports member would be more than outweighed by the multitude of advantages that could be secured by becoming a power conference. Unfortunately, some of the AAC schools have made "the perfect the enemy of the good" (have rejected the opportunity to accept "the good" (Boise as an all-sports member) by insisting on getting "the perfect" (Boise FB-only).

The AAC leadership has been incredibly timid and hesitant, and hasn't even managed to replace UConn in either FB or basketball/olympic sports, suggesting that they may not have either the basic competence or the boldness that is necessary to make the moves required to become a power conference.

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Question: Do you think that the university might still be weighing the possibility of playing basketball and olympic sports in the Big West, WAC, Summit, or another regional conference (others that have been mentioned have been the Summit, Big Sky, and Missouri Valley conferences)?

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Question: Do you think that the university might still be weighing the possibility of playing basketball and olympic sports in the Big West, WAC, Summit, or another regional conference (others that have been mentioned have been the Summit, Big Sky, and Missouri Valley conferences)?

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[/quote]

I would say Yes it is being considered, BUT,,,,

There is a lot of resistance against it. For one, any of the options available today are an even larger step down than they were back with the big west, and that was a step down.

Second is that all of the options may not actually be options... Those conferences do not seem to want all our other sports. All of our other sports (beyond football) are way beyond the other schools in those conferences. And it is not like it would mean a lot of money to them (the other conferences). We would have a harder time recruiting the Olys and would eventually drop to the level of the other conference But what do the other schools get out of that? Our Woman's basketball has been Killer. Track and field is awesome. Tennis is only recently down but rising again after years of domination. Swimming a Diving has had a lot of success. Our wrestling Team was a Successful PAC 12 until we just killed it off because of funding.

The problem is that these other conferences do not see value bring us in, tha t and we do not see value in stepping down.... Then you have the whole academic side. Conferences are where a lot of academic collaboration happens. You want to associate with schools that have the same values and trajectory. BSU academics are some of the fastest rising in the nation... We started out WAY behind almost everyone else. We see some of the same trajectories in the AAC. Schools that are growing faster than most everyone else. New dynamic approaches to education. New Degrees and research. We are No MIT or Berkley or Stanford or Harvard... But it seems everyone in the country is contacting us about how we configured our gap year program. We were the first in the nation to have one in response to the pandemic. It is becoming a permanent option for students. We are adding programs and research constantly.

So are those options? I do not know. It is not up to me. But I know there is a lot that goes into it and I think everyone here (at least the ones that will be making the decision) are weighing all the pros and cons. And the Cons to football only are pretty significant.

(04-22-2021 11:15 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  Question: Do you think that the university might still be weighing the possibility of playing basketball and olympic sports in the Big West, WAC, Summit, or another regional conference (others that have been mentioned have been the Summit, Big Sky, and Missouri Valley conferences)?

.

I would say Yes it is being considered, BUT,,,,

There is a lot of resistance against it. For one, any of the options available today are an even larger step down than they were back with the big west, and that was a step down.

Second is that all of the options may not actually be options... Those conferences do not seem to want all our other sports. All of our other sports (beyond football) are way beyond the other schools in those conferences. And it is not like it would mean a lot of money to them (the other conferences). We would have a harder time recruiting the Olys and would eventually drop to the level of the other conference But what do the other schools get out of that? Our Woman's basketball has been Killer. Track and field is awesome. Tennis is only recently down but rising again after years of domination. Swimming a Diving has had a lot of success. Our wrestling Team was a Successful PAC 12 until we just killed it off because of funding.

The problem is that these other conferences do not see value bring us in, tha t and we do not see value in stepping down.... Then you have the whole academic side. Conferences are where a lot of academic collaboration happens. You want to associate with schools that have the same values and trajectory. BSU academics are some of the fastest rising in the nation... We started out WAY behind almost everyone else. We see some of the same trajectories in the AAC. Schools that are growing faster than most everyone else. New dynamic approaches to education. New Degrees and research. We are No MIT or Berkley or Stanford or Harvard... But it seems everyone in the country is contacting us about how we configured our gap year program. We were the first in the nation to have one in response to the pandemic. It is becoming a permanent option for students. We are adding programs and research constantly.

So are those options? I do not know. It is not up to me. But I know there is a lot that goes into it and I think everyone here (at least the ones that will be making the decision) are weighing all the pros and cons. And the Cons to football only are pretty significant.
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Very interesting, informative insights. Great to have you aboard!

I only have time to respond by saying that - - obviously - - the AAC schools aren't opposed to being in the same conference. They realize what a boost having Boise aboard would give the American.

Thus, what it really boils down to more than anything else is travel costs. Boise is practically on the boarder with Washington State, making it practically a West Coast school.

However, travel costs could be cut by shifting to divisional play and division-based scheduling. Boise would only play the 6 eastern schools once per season in basketball, for example, meaning the 6 eastern schools would only have to fly out to Idaho once every other season.

In addition, the current 20-game conference basketball schedule could be cut to 16-games, and the other 4 games would be played with nearby OOC opponents to further cut travel costs/time.

That saves a lot of travel $/time. The next massive savings could be achieved by arranging all the winter sports teams to fly out to Idaho and back on the same airplane. The games for all the winter sports would be played out over a single weekend, with the games/events being run "tournament style" (double-headers, quadruple-headers, etc.). This would be a requirement to make the deal happen, but should be agreeable to all parties.

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In short, it's all about the travel issues, and there is a solution. The main down-side to the solution is that some Eastern and Central Time Zone basketball schools want to play twice per year (e.g., Cincy vs. Houston, etc.), and they would lose that with divisional scheduling.

However, we're talking about becoming a power conference, which would triple or quadruple our broadcasting revenues within 10-12 years. So if we have any brains, we should realize that it's worth giving up some cross-divisional games if that's going to earn us $25-$30 million/year going forward.

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I hope that summarizes the situation succinctly.

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If I were to advise the people at Boise State, here's what I would say:

Your best move would be to set up enough interviews with the media to express puzzlement over the fact that the AAC's Commissioner has made it crystal clear that they have no strategy to become a power/ autonomous conference. Yet, adding Boise is an obvious way to move toward power conference status, and in fact, it may be the ONLY way to move toward power conference status. Third, the only thing blocking it is concerns about travel - - BUT those concerns can easily be circumvented - - all the AAC needs to do is adopt divisional scheduling, which is obviously necessary for any conference that is spread out across 2/3 of the continent.

In short, the AAC is just plain too stupid or too timid and cowardly to realize that it has the key to power conference status in its trembling and quaking hands. That's the truth, and I believe that they are as stupid as they are timid (and vice versa). The point isn't to shame the AAC's leadership into reversing their decision to make it "FB-only membership or nothing," but simply to encourage them to reconsider their myopic and self-defeating decision to make the "perfect" the enemy of the "good."

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I would suggest that the monetary value in Boise (and other west coast teams) to the AAC is what monetary value they bring to ESPN. So what is that?

There is a major factor I am not seeing a lot of discussion about.

It is time slots. Games are played later. ESPN NEEDS an entertaining option for later time slots. They want someone that has been watching games for most of the day or at least afternoon to not change the channel. What is going to keep them watching for another 4 hours?

At one time Boise was an ESPN darling because they could fill that void. ESPN promoted those late games not because they were big on Boise but because they wanted viewers to keep tuned in to their channel.

An East coast-West coast tie in would do even more for them to help market those late games. Value to ESPN equates to money for the conference.

That being said not just any team will be marketable, and it has less to do with how many people are in that local TV market (although that does come into play to some extent). It is more about what team, what game, will keep the current viewers of the previous game continuing to tune in. THEN how many extra eyeballs can we add.

The value in Boise is that it has proven to be able to offer that to ESPN.

Boise would be foolish to take a FB only invite. Its degrading even to a G5 school. They are better off staying in the MWC where they are basically the king pin of the conference and where in most years they can dominate the conference in FB with an easier path to the playoff at large bid. They may make $2 million less in TV revenue but they also keep the travel headaches and expenses to a minimum too. The only way Boise to the AAC makes sense is to bring 2 more range schools for all sports to a reconfigured western AAC division. One could substitute a BYU all sports invite for one of the range schools but we all know they aren't coming. Finally would ESPN pony up at least $10 million dollars to make this happen too. Why would they when they already have the AAC on the cheap for a very, very long contract time. ESPN is better served under the current G5 / P5 system with a majority of their money going to the king pin P5 cartel.

We have reason to believe Aresco talked to BYU people about joining the
AAC. He traveled to Utah. There were multiple interiews while he was there, some on media.

Can any one post a link that suggests Aresco has as muoh as said "hello" to BSU people?

I see many negatives on inviting BSU, including:

Weather
Altitude 2,704 feet is a disadvantage to teams from 10 feet
Travel
time zone
Academics are well below AAC schools
Relatively poor state
Small area
It won't make the AAC a power conference. Nothing will.
Current AAC schools won't get recruits from Boise, but BSU would get
recruits from AAC areas. Generous aren't we?

A little birdie hinted that Boise is looking to place its Olympic sports in the Big West.

I'm on record as noting I would like to see the AAC add three schools from the Mountain West (I don't see BYU being in the mix):

Boise, San Diego State and a third program (Colorado State would likely be my preference though Air Force is intriguing).

14-team league with two seven team divisions.

(04-23-2021 10:49 AM)panite Wrote:  Boise would be foolish to take a FB only invite. Its degrading even to a G5 school. They are better off staying in the MWC where they are basically the king pin of the conference and where in most years they can dominate the conference in FB with an easier path to the playoff at large bid. They may make $2 million less in TV revenue but they also keep the travel headaches and expenses to a minimum too. The only way Boise to the AAC makes sense is to bring 2 more range schools for all sports to a reconfigured western AAC division. One could substitute a BYU all sports invite for one of the range schools but we all know they aren't coming. Finally would ESPN pony up at least $10 million dollars to make this happen too. Why would they when they already have the AAC on the cheap for a very, very long contract time. ESPN is better served under the current G5 / P5 system with a majority of their money going to the king pin P5 cartel.

I understand what you are saying but...

For ESPN it is about offering a late night product that keeps people watching. What is that value to them? They have to decide that. I am convinced no conversations are happening without their input.

It may require Later games, Friday night and Thursday night games. Those suck but it is all about the value you provide to the network. Where do they need the time slot filled? What fills that time slot that people may watch? The Big boys get the primo time slots. They get first pick. They have the most viewer power and monetize better than everyone else.

So... If you want more money you have to provide a product that is most valuable to the people paying... ie. ESPN.

We need to keep emotion out of the decision. Degrading??? BYU plays that emotion because they can afford to. The church has billions in the bank. They are all about how they think others perceive them. They can play that card while most of us can not afford to.

Now, how others perceive you, right or wrong, is how you monetize. A more visual program (sports) actually leads to increased interest and growth in the academic side. No one has seen that better than BSU and the treasure valley.

After the Fiesta Bowl win way back when the treasure valley had a flood of interest from companies that decided this might be a good place to move to. BSU was inundated with undergrad and post grad interest. Suddenly we had a flood of highly qualified interest in professorships that we needed to fill.

Success breeds success. but to get there we had to play a lot of non-traditional game days. A lot of the locals threw fits about game days and times. Games ending at midnight on a Wednesday? Got to work an Thursday. Was it worth it? We would not made the Fiesta Bowl without it in my opinion.

(04-23-2021 11:08 AM)UHCougar08 Wrote:  A little birdie hinted that Boise is looking to place its Olympic sports in the Big West.

Not me. I'd like that for several reasons but I'm not the birdie.

Boise State in the AAC would be mutually beneficial. It would improve our strength on the gridiron and help Boise with a tougher schedule. Boise State would get a more central and east coast audience when you play at Houston, at UCF, etc. It would help the league gain an additional time slot when teams play at Boise State such. Also, Boise State v UCF and others is an intriguing matchup. It all comes down to what ESPN wants.

The other issue we have is that we have major issues with the Mountain West. We were joining the Big East. The robbery by the BIGs (10 and 12) made the decision to join not look as enticing. So the MWC came back with a counter for us to return.... They came to us, not as many think that we came to them. To sweeten the pot for a return they offered us the ability to negotiate our own home games with the TV networks.... "If you think you are worth so much more than the rest of us then you monetize that on your own, separately and independently. Well... ESPN agreed and offered us more money than they were offering the rest of the of the MWC.

Now all the presidents of all the MWC schools agreed to this. So... years later and time for new TV contracts. Hair Thompson confirms to the NEW BSU administration that we would be allowed to negotiate our contract on our own again, (at least that was some of the reporting), but the MWC (all new presidents at this time... everyone of them, Do not like it and think BSU is being treated "special" for no reason. The new TV contract is negotiated behind the back of BSU and ends up with CBS sports and BSU is told they would receive the same thing everyone else is getting.... But we had a contract!!!! If our TV value had diminished to less than the average MWC team then we would have received less. No one mentions that.

But all the other conferances share and share alike, when you are down we carry you when we are down you carry us.... Except that is not how EVERYONE does it (BIG 12)... It would be nice to be in a conferance when everyone shares and shares alike but this was the option they offered and we chose to accept. We had to take them to court but the contract was already signed with CBS... so the offer to drop the case was we will give you the additional revenue difference you negotiated in the first contract.

And the other MWC presidents are still reportedly saying that next contract you WILL be treated equally. No negotiating on your own. That is a problem.

Then there is Hair Thompson... In the opinion of many of us, He is weak. We will trade you commissioners any day of the week. I know you pay him way more than we pay Thompson... in my opinion (and some others) he seems to be worth it.

One of the hardest tasks a commissioner has to accomplish is keeping all those "Academics" around the table on the same page. There will always be disagreements between the schools, just like on this board, but he has to keep them working together toward the same goals.

(04-23-2021 12:37 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  Boise State in the AAC would be mutually beneficial. It would improve our strength on the gridiron and help Boise with a tougher schedule. Boise State would get a more central and east coast audience when you play at Houston, at UCF, etc. It would help the league gain an additional time slot when teams play at Boise State such. Also, Boise State v UCF and others is an intriguing matchup. It all comes down to what ESPN wants.

I have to agree with the sports side of this.... I would love to play against AAC teams. I wish that were the only deciding factor.

(04-23-2021 12:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I'm on record as noting I would like to see the AAC add three schools from the Mountain West (I don't see BYU being in the mix):

Boise, San Diego State and a third program (Colorado State would likely be my preference though Air Force is intriguing).

14-team league with two seven team divisions.

In order to go East/West you really need more than 14. The dream would be to add Boise, SDSU, CSU, like you suggested along with BYU, UNLV and AFA football paired with Gonzaga.

Basketball would be a full round robin 16 game schedule. No divisions for football but install protected rivalry. 2 highest rated teams playing for the championship regardless of record or head to head with the winner going to the playoff.

(04-23-2021 12:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I'm on record as noting I would like to see the AAC add three schools from the Mountain West (I don't see BYU being in the mix):

Boise, San Diego State and a third program (Colorado State would likely be my preference though Air Force is intriguing).

14-team league with two seven team divisions.

Can't do it legally.

(04-23-2021 01:07 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(04-23-2021 12:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I'm on record as noting I would like to see the AAC add three schools from the Mountain West (I don't see BYU being in the mix):

Boise, San Diego State and a third program (Colorado State would likely be my preference though Air Force is intriguing).

14-team league with two seven team divisions.

In order to go East/West you really need more than 14. The dream would be to add Boise, SDSU, CSU, like you suggested along with BYU, UNLV and AFA football paired with Gonzaga.

Basketball would be a full round robin 16 game schedule. No divisions for football but install protected rivalry. 2 highest rated teams playing for the championship regardless of record or head to head with the winner going to the playoff.

14 seems like the ideal number among the P5 conferences, and it would work just fine for the AAC:

..West............................East

Houston........................Cincy
Tulsa.............................UCF
SMU..............................USF
Navy/Wichita...............Memphis
Boise St.......................Tulane
AFA/Gonzaga................Temple
SDSU (or BYU/CSU)........ECU

.

(04-23-2021 01:02 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  

(04-23-2021 12:37 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  Boise State in the AAC would be mutually beneficial. It would improve our strength on the gridiron and help Boise with a tougher schedule. Boise State would get a more central and east coast audience when you play at Houston, at UCF, etc. It would help the league gain an additional time slot when teams play at Boise State such. Also, Boise State v UCF and others is an intriguing matchup. It all comes down to what ESPN wants.

I have to agree with the sports side of this.... I would love to play against AAC teams. I wish that were the only deciding factor.

It's great to have Boise State advocates such as yourself participating in this discussion to keep the rest of us properly informed.
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(04-23-2021 01:07 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(04-23-2021 12:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I'm on record as noting I would like to see the AAC add three schools from the Mountain West (I don't see BYU being in the mix):

Boise, San Diego State and a third program (Colorado State would likely be my preference though Air Force is intriguing).

14-team league with two seven team divisions.

In order to go East/West you really need more than 14. The dream would be to add Boise, SDSU, CSU, like you suggested along with BYU, UNLV and AFA football paired with Gonzaga.

Basketball would be a full round robin 16 game schedule. No divisions for football but install protected rivalry. 2 highest rated teams playing for the championship regardless of record or head to head with the winner going to the playoff.

It would be fun to do something entirely out of the box that would shake things up. I once read a theoretical proposal for "PODS". every year regrouping teams based on their last season rankings or preseason projections. That way you were always making sure that the top teams had the strongest schedule possible and looked as good as possible to the eye test evaluators. Certain rivalries would be protected.

Geographical dispersion makes that a little more difficult but could be ameliorated by having the conference retain some of the dispersal funds set aside for travel costs for what ever team was traveling.

The biggest issue with travel is not the costs involved though. It is the "academics" complaining about missed class room time for the student athletes. Presidents of schools have to deal with a lot of that coming from the non-sports side of a school. They HAVE to give that weight if they want to keep their jobs.