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What JPreston and BVDPlas are doing with this late-season run with Ohio U. makes you wonder what a healthy/suspension free Kent State with Nuga and Pippen might have been capable of over the course of the full season.

Two different kind of tandems for sure ... and different kinds of supporting casts ... but ... don't forget Kent was leading the league in scoring when those two were healthy and in uniform together, Jacobs was just finding his niche and Beck was just rounding into form after missing the first half of the season with a broken wrist.

I guess that's what dreams are for.

Sorry to say this, but OU lapped our legacy. They have a way to find good coaches after winning seasons in almost all the sports. Most MAC schools, including us, have to limp out of a coaching change.

Agree, AlphaFlash.

If Oral Roberts and Ohio hadn't won their conference tournaments, absolutely nobody would have considered even for a second either for an at-large bid. And they knock off a #2 seed and a #4 seed, respectively. There is almost no margin of error at all for mid-majors, in basketball or football. We look back on the 2001/2002 season with rose-colored glasses. If KSU had stumbled in the MAC tournament, like if Huffman and Gates were sick or sprained their ankle, or just had a bad game, there was no certainty that they would have received an at-large bid. As I recall, it was considered a toss-up if they lost the championship game. Likewise, within mid-majors, the difference between many teams and programs is so small that seemingly little things can make one rise or fall in relation to others, like Whether a coach stays or moves on to greener pastures, whether the right coach is hired to fill the vacancy, which MAC school this or that 2-star recruit chooses, and now who stays or enters the portal. I guess my point is that you have to enjoy the Hell out of good things when they do happen.

(03-21-2021 07:44 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Agree, AlphaFlash.

If Oral Roberts and Ohio hadn't won their conference tournaments, absolutely nobody would have considered even for a second either for an at-large bid. And they knock off a #2 seed and a #4 seed, respectively. There is almost no margin of error at all for mid-majors, in basketball or football. We look back on the 2001/2002 season with rose-colored glasses. If KSU had stumbled in the MAC tournament, like if Huffman and Gates were sick or sprained their ankle, or just had a bad game, there was no certainty that they would have received an at-large bid. As I recall, it was considered a toss-up if they lost the championship game. Likewise, within mid-majors, the difference between many teams and programs is so small that seemingly little things can make one rise or fall in relation to others, like Whether a coach stays or moves on to greener pastures, whether the right coach is hired to fill the vacancy, which MAC school this or that 2-star recruit chooses, and now who stays or enters the portal. I guess my point is that you have to enjoy the Hell out of good things when they do happen.

right on point. and all these reasons you list is why every coach leaves when offered greener pastures. money is obvious reason to leave but also easier and more frequent paths to the tourney is key as well. will be curious to see if boals departs.

KSU315, in fact Heath gave as one of his reasons for leaving Kent State the fact that it is a one-bid league. Of course, he would have left anyway, but he made a good point. The MAC IS a one-bid league, except in a rare circumstance in which there is NO way whatsoever a team can be left out, which hasn't happened in 22 years. Just look at Antonio Gates - if Waters didn't leave, we wouldn't have had Heath bringing Orondo Taliaferro in, who brought Gates in. You never know what little things, even things that seem a negative at first (Waters leaving), will figure greatly in a mid-major's success Of course, such things matter in big-time programs, too, but they have a MUCH greater margin of error. I don't want to "beat a dead horse to death", so I'll provide one more example - Huffman. If even ONE D I school had offered him, he would never have visited Kent State so late. And Waters had to be talked into signing him by Mitchell, primarily. What seemed at the time a footnote - the little blurb in the paper announcing the signing of what seemed like a mere roster-filler ended up being one of the very best, if not THE best, signing in the school's basketball history.

Even some of the role players on that team were extremely rare strokes of luck. Edwards started as a walk-on. Any 7 foot shot blocker would fit well into a team as loaded, but lacking in size as that one... Just so happened that the 7 foot shot blocker we had turned out to be the only NBA player in school history.

I believe Haut started as a walk-on too. Don't remember if they were on scholarship by that season.

Good example, anti-zip. Edwards did nothing in high school, though some of that was due to injury. Wasn't his mom a professor at KSU?

Haut was in interesting case. He took a very circuitous route to KSU, as I recall. I THINK he was a "preferred walk-on" at first.

By the way, he was not the only Flash NBA player. Jim Zoet, another 7 footer, had a cup of coffee in the NBA with the Pistons. Those are the only two I'm aware of.

(03-21-2021 02:10 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Even some of the role players on that team were extremely rare strokes of luck. Edwards started as a walk-on. Any 7 foot shot blocker would fit well into a team as loaded, but lacking in size as that one... Just so happened that the 7 foot shot blocker we had turned out to be the only NBA player in school history.

I believe Haut started as a walk-on too. Don't remember if they were on scholarship by that season.

Gerwig was not highly recruited at all out of Pittsburgh but he and Edwards formed a nice inside tandem. Haut and Edwards were walkons. Eric Thomas was a solid recruit. Bryan Bedford was a good role player. Wilkins came off the bench on that E8 team as well. Interesting thing is, almost all those guys ultimately became starters.

Just shows how delicate the makeup of any team is. Also remember Gates arrival led to the departure of 6-9 junior Mike Perry. While he was no AGates, he was a solid player and starter on the 2001 NCAA team. Never knew the whole story of why he left, or what ever became of him.

Cleveland, i could be wrong, but as I recall Perry didn't come back for a 5th year because Waters left. He was really shaken up over that. In high school at Barberton Perry showed nothing that would indicate that he would end up as solid as he did. Another player in that era who opted out of a 5th year was Nate Meers, one of the best 3-point shooters they ever had. Yes, Haut was a walk-on, but as I recall he was recruited as a "preferred walk-on". I even remember two decent players who quit basketball to concentrate on scholastics - Russ Kotolac and Scott Effertz. Yeah, Gerwig wasn't that highly regarded as a recruit. He was just really big. Still, I thought he was headed for greatness until he dislocated his shoulder at Cleveland State and he was never the same after that. I think he later had a knee issue, too. And in another stroke of luck, Demetric Shaw who started at Tulane came here because his friend, Rashaun Warren, was here.

Don’t forget Mitchell and Thomas were prop 48s and could have easily not been eligible in 2002. Getting Shaw to transfer from Tulane was big too.

To be fair the whole thing was close to a miracle.

(03-21-2021 02:25 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good example, anti-zip. Edwards did nothing in high school, though some of that was due to injury. Wasn't his mom a professor at KSU?

Haut was in interesting case. He took a very circuitous route to KSU, as I recall. I THINK he was a "preferred walk-on" at first.

By the way, he was not the only Flash NBA player. Jim Zoet, another 7 footer, had a cup of coffee in the NBA with the Pistons. Those are the only two I'm aware of.

Doug Sims played in NBA in the 60's

(03-21-2021 03:59 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Cleveland, i could be wrong, but as I recall Perry didn't come back for a 5th year because Waters left. He was really shaken up over that. In high school at Barberton Perry showed nothing that would indicate that he would end up as solid as he did. Another player in that era who opted out of a 5th year was Nate Meers, one of the best 3-point shooters they ever had. Yes, Haut was a walk-on, but as I recall he was recruited as a "preferred walk-on". I even remember two decent players who quit basketball to concentrate on scholastics - Russ Kotolac and Scott Effertz. Yeah, Gerwig wasn't that highly regarded as a recruit. He was just really big. Still, I thought he was headed for greatness until he dislocated his shoulder at Cleveland State and he was never the same after that. I think he later had a knee issue, too. And in another stroke of luck, Demetric Shaw who started at Tulane came here because his friend, Rashaun Warren, was here.

I think you may be right about Waters/Perry. They were connected. And also agree about Gerwig. As I recall in that CSU game he had like 20 points at the half and maybe 30 by the time he got hurt. Still say that injury at CSU cost Kent another NCAA bid. And he was never really the same after. Also, Shaw, another guard before him, then Gates started Kent and the MAC toward being more open to accepting transfers, which was actually kind of frowned upon back then. How times have changed.

Correction on one point ... Meers was done after his sophomore year, actually before the year ended as he was suspended prior to the NIT run in 2000 and never returned. I believe it was grades. I remember this because Kent lost in the E8 of the NIT when Huffman really struggled (don't think he scored more than 7 points). Meers was his backup that year as Haut was sitting as a redshirt.

Just an aside on Huffman one quirky stat is the last game of every season (all tournament games) he failed to score 10 points. Weird.

(03-21-2021 04:02 PM)burden Wrote:  To be fair the whole thing was close to a miracle.

3 very lucrative miracles if I remember correctly.

Meers, if my memory serves me correct, opted to go on Spring Break over participating in post season basketball.

(03-21-2021 04:08 PM)luckyflash Wrote:  

(03-21-2021 02:25 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good example, anti-zip. Edwards did nothing in high school, though some of that was due to injury. Wasn't his mom a professor at KSU?

Haut was in interesting case. He took a very circuitous route to KSU, as I recall. I THINK he was a "preferred walk-on" at first.

By the way, he was not the only Flash NBA player. Jim Zoet, another 7 footer, had a cup of coffee in the NBA with the Pistons. Those are the only two I'm aware of.

Doug Sims played in NBA in the 60's

I guess I should've said the only Kent player to score more than 4 points in the NBA.

Yeah, anti-zip, I think Zoet had 2.

I'll take everybody's word about Meers. I do recall some grade issues. He had to sit out his freshman year due to a question of HS credits. All I'm sure of is that he played three years and didn't play a fourth. He couldn't do much else, but he could shoot it.

The player that always puzzled me, who I considered their version of Steve Blass, was Jeff Anderson. He was one of the best shooters in the nation his junior year and his senior year couldn't buy a bucket. His 2 point shooting percentage dropped more than 7 percentage points, his 3-point dropped 20 percentage points, and his free-throw 14. A real mystery.

(03-21-2021 05:54 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Yeah, anti-zip, I think Zoet had 2.

I'll take everybody's word about Meers. I do recall some grade issues. He had to sit out his freshman year due to a question of HS credits. All I'm sure of is that he played three years and didn't play a fourth. He couldn't do much else, but he could shoot it.

The player that always puzzled me, who I considered their version of Steve Blass, was Jeff Anderson. He was one of the best shooters in the nation his junior year and his senior year couldn't buy a bucket. His 2 point shooting percentage dropped more than 7 percentage points, his 3-point dropped 20 percentage points, and his free-throw 14. A real mystery.

You are right he did play three years ... last year was 2000, which was the NIT E8 year.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ers-1.html

Another shooter out of Stow, like Meers, that KSU signed was Geoff Byrne. He stayed only one year then transferred to somewhere in California, I think it was. I don't think he ever played after Kent State.

This thread brings back the memories.