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(03-16-2021 10:26 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:24 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Davenport or Eason would be a bigger loss btw. Mason too. But I really thought Mike would've been excited to backup Dejulius for a year and then take over.

The core needed to stay. Eason, Davenport, Saunders, Maw, and Mason. If we could lose any of them, it was Mason or MAW. This one really hurts.


Eason, Davenport, and Saunders had first team AAC potential over the course of their careers.

Disagree. MAW is better than Saunders and will be for the remainder of his time at UC.

(03-16-2021 10:20 AM)The Big O Wrote:  I'm one who thinks Brannen needs to be given more time, but if the players aren't giving him time, there isn't really much you can do. It's still very early, but we're at a tipping point where things could get really ugly really fast. I feel like you still need to give him a third season, though. Covid has really screwed things up. Who knows if Jarron Cumberland is in these guys ears or what is really motivating them to enter the portal. A little bit different situation, but I don't remember this being a problem at NKU.

If you give him a third year, how is he going to recruit? How many quality recruits are going to a program that seems to have major locker room issues and a coach is in his last year if he doesn't pull a massive turnaround?

Brannen has no shot if he's on the hot seat next year. You'd have to be willing to commit to him and guarantee him a year four and five as well, so he can try to rebuild from scratch.

But seeing as Brannen already had one chance to rebuild and completely blew it. Not to mention the second rebuild would be harder for him (he's not going to be a popular guy on the recruiting trail).

Get a new coach, give him 4/5 years and be prepared for a complete rebuild. Better get a good coach, because the next 4/5 years probably determine our basketball future.

(03-16-2021 10:28 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:26 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:24 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Davenport or Eason would be a bigger loss btw. Mason too. But I really thought Mike would've been excited to backup Dejulius for a year and then take over.

The core needed to stay. Eason, Davenport, Saunders, Maw, and Mason. If we could lose any of them, it was Mason or MAW. This one really hurts.


Eason, Davenport, and Saunders had first team AAC potential over the course of their careers.

Disagree. MAW is better than Saunders and will be for the remainder of his time at UC.

Saunders' speed and ability at the rim at the moment are both better skills than any MAW will likely develop by the time he's a senior. Saunders had far more upside than MAW, and I don't think it's all that close.

He has more upside but he couldn't even get onto the court until we had walk ons playing. MAW was a starter on a tournament team only a year ago and actually has range on his shot (Mikey was never a good shooter). I like Saunders, want him to stay, and think he would be really good here. But MAW is much further along and i'd be surprised if Saunders ever surpasses him while sitting behind DDJ. Maybe by the time MAW is a senior and Saunders a Junior.

(03-16-2021 10:32 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Saunders' speed and ability at the rim at the moment are both better skills than any MAW will likely develop by the time he's a senior. Saunders had far more upside than MAW, and I don't think it's all that close.

Yea. His play after covid break was one of the most encouraging parts of the season. He blew by people and finished at the rim. He turned it over less. If he improved his 3 point shot he was going to be an all conference player.

(03-16-2021 10:34 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  He has more upside but he couldn't even get onto the court until we had walk ons playing. MAW was a starter on a tournament team only a year ago and actually has range on his shot (Mikey was never a good shooter). I like Saunders, want him to stay, and think he would be really good here. But MAW is much further along and i'd be surprised if Saunders ever surpasses him while sitting behind DDJ. Maybe by the time MAW is a senior and Saunders a Junior.

I mean...you said MAW would be a better player by the end of his career here, which is to say he has better upside, something you then completely contradicted in this post.

I'm always more of a fan of someone with an elite skill or trait (Saunders' speed is absolutely an elite trait) over someone who we have likely seen all there is to see from. I'd prefer to have them both, but that clearly isn't going to happen. DDJ has one year left...there would've been two years with Saunders at point and MAW at the off guard, and that's a dangerous combo.

I don't think Mikey is ever going to be better than a low 30s 3-pt shooter. His bread and butter in college will always be as a wicked fast PG who can push the pace and blow by defenders. I find MAW and Madsen more valuable simply because our other key component (DDJ) can't shoot right now either. A backcourt needs guards who can shoot. Nonetheless, kinda a trivial point. This hurts no matter what.

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(03-16-2021 10:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  I'm always more of a fan of someone with an elite skill or trait (Saunders' speed is absolutely an elite trait) over someone who we have likely seen all there is to see from. I'd prefer to have them both, but that clearly isn't going to happen. DDJ has one year left...there would've been two years with Saunders at point and MAW at the off guard, and that's a dangerous combo.

I mean this is what it boils down to. You're taking a raw kid with an elite skill over someone that's proven their worth on a basketball court for nearly two whole seasons. Maybe you end up being right but Saunders isn't going to be a full time starter until his Junior year. By then MAW will be a 3-year starter entering his Senior year. The way this roster is falling apart--I take MAW in that scenario. But that's what I mean when I said that Saunders has more upside but MAW will be a better play until he leaves campus (Saunders may surpass him as a Senior, idk).

I’m not expecting any of the freshmen to be back at this point. Maybe they will, but it doesn’t look promising.

I think MAW and Mason are both better players. But we need as much young talent in the program as possible and Saunders had it set up perfectly to come be the guy in waiting after DDJ graduated. If this is it I think we have enough to build from but it feels like the whole thing is falling apart.

Could we get Jeff Wyler to step up and create Wyler-Brannen Dodge in Milford?

(03-16-2021 10:32 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:28 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:26 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:24 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Davenport or Eason would be a bigger loss btw. Mason too. But I really thought Mike would've been excited to backup Dejulius for a year and then take over.

The core needed to stay. Eason, Davenport, Saunders, Maw, and Mason. If we could lose any of them, it was Mason or MAW. This one really hurts.


Eason, Davenport, and Saunders had first team AAC potential over the course of their careers.

Disagree. MAW is better than Saunders and will be for the remainder of his time at UC.

Saunders' speed and ability at the rim at the moment are both better skills than any MAW will likely develop by the time he's a senior. Saunders had far more upside than MAW, and I don't think it's all that close.

THIS^^^^

Zach Harvey just entered the portal officially, that one feels like a pile on.

(03-16-2021 10:38 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I don't think Mikey is ever going to be better than a low 30s 3-pt shooter. His bread and butter in college will always be as a wicked fast PG who can push the pace and blow by defenders. I find MAW and Madsen more valuable simply because our other key component (DDJ) can't shoot right now either. A backcourt needs guards who can shoot. Nonetheless, kinda a trivial point. This hurts no matter what.

We are a pick-entry offense...a fast guard who has a deft touch around the rim and a solid shooting picker will make that offense hum in the drive and kick game (which is what you've seen with Saunders on the court).

This isn't an either/or scenario by the way...they both were on the court together for long stretches and it worked. Having said that, I agree with many on here that Saunders could be a 1st team all-leaguer if used correctly...MAW does not have that kind of upside. As you stated, it's a fundamental difference in how we view what is most valuable.

I see MAW as a low-calorie Jaquon Parker, worse on defense, but basically the same on offense. H can be a ball handler when necessary, but you don't want him as your point guard, can hit the occasional 3 but still misses a lot of shots he probably shouldn't, and only ever going to be a tertiary option on a good team. Saunders' speed is something you don't get a whole lot of anywhere...you find a way to use that and force teams to gameplan to stop it, the 3-ball is irrelevant for a guy like that, because he's not going to be shooting a whole lot of them if you're doing things right (which is true for how he played when he was given time).

This open transfer portal is madness. Think of how many of your favorite Bearcat teams would have never come to fruition if they knew they could commit somewhere and shut it down and go elsewhere if they couldn't crack the starting lineup.

That's just my selfish concern as a fan. The players have it much worse - a good chunk of these transfers may never see the floor again and will have problems maintaining momentum on programs to reach their potential.

How long before Tari’s name hits the portal? I give it a day...

So now Brannen and staff have to, with 0 commitments and players leaving by the hour, have to go out and convince high quality transfers to come play for UC.

This could be the beginning of a really rough time for UC basketball. People will be longing for the days of losing in the first weekend of the tournament.

(03-16-2021 10:43 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  I’m not expecting any of the freshmen to be back at this point. Maybe they will, but it doesn’t look promising.

If that happens, we'll be lucky to win 10 games next year. We will have 11 scholarships to fill, and that's a near insurmountable task, even with the transfer portal the way it is...and Brannen hasn't necessarily been great at finding effective talent by those means so far (McNeal, Sorolla, Ivanauskas, etc.). We also don't have the luxury that some other places do of having tons of talent from our area who may want to come back home. Houston has feasted on that situation.

(03-16-2021 10:52 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  How long before Tari’s name hits the portal? I give it a day...

By tonight