You do know that a lack of "wokeism" exposed the university to some serious and expensive litigation? Martin, IMO, is simply scrambling to get compliant, get a dept rocked by Covid concerns back on track, and kickstart fundraising in an attempt to get back to previous targets.

(03-02-2021 09:04 AM)Tribester Wrote:  This guy is a joke. He is more focused on inclusion diversity wokeism instead of building WINNING programs at W&M. At this point, the school might as well drop down to Division 3 so we can save money on athletic scholarships. Maybe that professor was right about canceling the football program after all.

What, specifically, led you to this perspective?

It's not fair to hold Martin accountable for anything Huge promised. I love his transparency, communication, and attention to the basics (like becoming compliant with federal law). He's doing a great job and I hope he is introduced as our permanent AD.

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(03-02-2021 09:25 AM)Tribal Wrote:  It's not fair to hold Martin accountable for anything Huge promised.

I don't think this can be restated enough.

(03-02-2021 09:25 AM)Tribal Wrote:  It's not fair to hold Martin accountable for anything Huge promised. I love his transparency, communication, and attention to the basics (like becoming compliant with federal law). He's doing a great job and I hope he is introduced as our permanent AD.

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He is everything that she was not, and I mean that as a 1000% complement. I am not for all of the diversity funds that are being pushed but I totally understand that we have Title IX issues that need to be addressed and this is certainly one of the ways to address them. And it certainly does not discourage me from contributing to the program(s) that i care most about.

Jeremy seems very approachable and appears to very much care about our College. Huge played for the name on the back of her jersey.

Huge strip mined the Athletic Department and hired a brand new regime, fired or pushed out some of our most accomplished coaches, pushed the plunger that dynamited seven sports, plagiarized Stanford's work, was censored, got canned......and people are not happy with Martin?

That's like being unhappy with the New York Fire Department after 911.

As for the 16 million shortage for Kaplan, it isn't feasible to put your hand out to save sports and recover from our Huge mistake and still ask folks to fund the rest of Kaplan. These are just simple financial decisions. We are so far in the hole right now, that we may end up in a far worse place than anyone anticipates.

I would think the practice facility is the higher priority compared to the renovation of Kaplan.
The athletes deserve increased and improved practice spaces. The fans have a decent facility now if they make a few improvements like sound system, restrooms and concessions.
Until we consistently win and until crowds return, Kaplan is fine the way it is.
In a few years it may be a registered historic landmark.

(03-02-2021 06:33 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Jeremy Martin appeared on last night's W&M Basketball Alumni/Contributor Zoom call hosted by Dane and finally spoke a little about the status of the Kaplan Arena Renovation....and, unfortunately, it remains up in the air and clouded.

Martin referred to "funding problems" delaying the project and would give no clear indication as to when construction would
begin or even if it would start. Said only "I'll get back to everyone in the future", setting no time limit on when we'd get
an official update. Did refer to the covid as halting things.

As I understand it the two substantial contributors to the project gave W&M 41 million for the reconstruction and the entire project
was estimated at 57 million dollars. Have no idea if its the extra 16 million, problems with the 41 million contributions from the two main donors, the school having second thoughts, or whatever else.

What appears apparent is that there is no start to the renovation in the immediate future or even this year.

Do we have bad vibes from Martin's somewhat non-clarifying, neutral remarks?

(03-02-2021 08:50 AM)wmmii Wrote:  We all understand that Covid has changed life and we must create new visions. However we should not rewrite history in the process. The public was told that the project was being put out to bid in the summer of 2020 and that we would break ground "December 2020".

The official announcement on 2/1/20 from our website stated:

"Construction is expected to begin in fall 2020 and conclude in fall 2022." ....

(03-02-2021 09:12 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  You do know that a lack of "wokeism" exposed the university to some serious and expensive litigation? Martin, IMO, is simply scrambling to get compliant, get a dept rocked by Covid concerns back on track, and kickstart fundraising in an attempt to get back to previous targets.

(03-02-2021 09:25 AM)Tribal Wrote:  It's not fair to hold Martin accountable for anything Huge promised. I love his transparency, communication, and attention to the basics (like becoming compliant with federal law). He's doing a great job and I hope he is introduced as our permanent AD.

So much to say here but let me start with the obvious: I am on record as having been anti-Huge, so it is a given that I agree with anti-Huge sentiments such as were expressed very well by Tribe32. However, having said that, it does not mean that Huge's successor is automatically a saint just because of comparisons to her. He has to earn his way and, so far, I have seen very, very little to engender confidence in his vision forward.

-- The bolded sentences above make it very clear that the fans still do not know anything about the timelines for Kap renovations. "Funding problems", "misunderstanding", "I'll get back to you...". That is not communication and it certainly is not transparent communication. I hear "misunderstanding" as doublespeak about whether the money is still available. Perhaps the donors pulled their funds when Huge got fired. Perhaps they pulled them more recently in frustration at the pace and from worry that their charitable dollars could be better used elsewhere until W&M got its act together. If Huge was able to convince them to donate then Martin's job is to convince them to stay the course (even if their money is still there, he needs to be vigilant to convince them to keep it there). The problem is, no one knows anything because there has been no communication. If the $41M is still there and the problem is indeed the $16M then Martin needs to communicate that so that other potential donors can be found to fill the gap. Also, re communication, don't forget that the very first announcement after Huge got fired was that Martin would hold a socially-distanced Town Hall to respond to Tribe fans' questions. That didn't happen. Instead, Martin held a one-way lecture on the state of the budget.

-- It is perfectly fair not to blame Martin for Huge's mistakes; however, it IS perfectly fair to expect him to fix them and to hold him accountable for how well he does (or does not) do that. General Grant was expected to fix McClellan et al's mistakes even though he wasn't blamed for them. There is a much more recent, current national example as well.

-- Re the "serious and expensive litigation": you can't blame Huge for that. She can probably be accused of not presenting a loud enough voice of dissent to Rowe about the direction the College was taking in admissions, but you cannot blame her for the direction itself. That is all on Rowe. It is Rowe who has progressively raised the percentage of female students every year until now it has been around 61% female for three straight years. That is what has caused the gender equity/Title IX issues. No school with 61% female student body AND a football team can expect to avoid Title IX issues. W&M was actually getting away with it until Huge dropped some sports which caused the lawsuit but, again, there would have been no Title IX lawsuit if Rowe hadn't caused the undergraduate ratios to get out of whack. We could have maintained all sports AND remained compliant if the undergraduate percentage had been closer to 52-53% female. (Speaking only to the Title IX part of the equation, not the budget issues).

-- Re "scrambling to get compliant": what is Martin doing to get compliant? All that has occurred (and he was not the driver on this; the lawsuit was) is that Peel Hawthorne is heading a working group that will come up with recommendations in April, and in August the College must announce what it will do to gain compliance with Title IX. It can already be predicted what the answer will be: W&M will add Women's Softball and possibly Rowing to increase the number of women athletes. It may drop Men's Gymnastics down to Club level to (slightly) lower the number of male athletes and to reduce the total number of sports. W&M will probably, unannounced, increase the percentage of male undergraduates in the Spring 2021 transfer portal and for Fall 2021 (this would obviously lower the target percentage for Title IX compliance). These moves are obvious; I guess Martin is "scrambling" to figure out how to start up Softball and Rowing programs.

-- It is interesting that Martin's most ardent supporters are also some of this board's most vocal football supporters. It is also interesting that as of the last communication (1-2 months ago) it was Football who had only achieved about 50% of its fundraising goal this year (Track had exceeded goal and Swimming has already raised funds for the next two years). I am trying to visualize Martin bringing down the hammer on the Football program as he had promised to do with all those "lesser" programs who were told to pay their own way.

Some recent posts on this thread are confirmation that folks have lost their common sense in this time of COVID and contentious national politics.

When a house is on fire, and when the fire threatens the entire structure, one does not go ahead with putting a planned pre-fire addition onto the burning house until (a) the fire is out, and (b) the damage is assessed.

When the interim AD assumed his current post five MONTHS ago, the W&M Athletics Department was fully engulfed in a self-inflicted five alarm fire.

In the course of fighting that fire, the interim AD restored the Tribe 7.

In the course of fighting that fire, the Tribe 7 have led the way towards the goal of self-funding.

In the course of fighting that fire, the interim AD has notified stakeholders that W&M fundraising had fallen off of a cliff in the last several years ... and THAT WAS the issue, something that was never acknowledged previously by the school.

Pay attention.

Fund-raising remains an issue for the non-Tribe 7 sports.

Martin’s response re: the Hall project makes perfect sense.

The fire still burns .... it is not yet under control. Damage assessment still hasn’t been done.

The Hall project can wait.

Criticizing an interim five months on the job ... seriously people?

Martin’s the best thing to happen to W&M athletics since Tony Shaver became the head coach almost twenty years ago... but folks didn’t understand that either, did they?

2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

(03-02-2021 12:26 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

I agree 100%... help finance through bonds (financing costs are still relatively cheap). The energy a project like this would have in the athletic department would be amazing. We would go from treading water to actually swimming forward. Delaying it only shows that there is no confidence in the future. Asking alumni to donate to a program growing as opposed to plugging an existing hole.

(03-02-2021 12:26 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

I'm not disagreeing and this isn't a rhetorical question. What's the allegation here? That the funding is there but Martin just lacks the willpower to move forward? I don't understand what he or the department stands to gain by putting off the project if the funding is right there.

There seems to be a tendency nowadays to try to paint people (both current and historical) either as totally good or totally bad, rather than as the human beings that we all are. Personally I think Martin thus far has been an enormous improvement over Ms. Huge. I would never blame him for her failings, but still I do recall that he was nearby when Pres. Rowe was signing off on some of those decisions, and probably not out of the loop. Going forward there will no doubt be some missteps, whether or not he gets the AD job long-term. He’s been dealt an incredibly tough hand; no one could play it perfectly.

As to the Kap, it seems clear that one or more funding problems have cropped up. It doesn’t make sense not to be up front about them, unless perhaps if there are ongoing discussions with a wavering major donor. Otherwise, we — the broader fan/donor base — are a potential answer to getting more funds. But we won’t pony up unless somebody tells us the score and asks us. Has the price gone up? Was the $16 million never really lined up? Make the ask!!!

It made no sense to cut the swim team for supposedly not raising funds when no one actually tried to raise them.

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

... really hope the solution to fixing the funding problem in our athletic department is not to add MORE sports...

(03-02-2021 05:02 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-02-2021 12:26 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

I'm not disagreeing and this isn't a rhetorical question. What's the allegation here? That the funding is there but Martin just lacks the willpower to move forward? I don't understand what he or the department stands to gain by putting off the project if the funding is right there.

The holes in the budget that reopened with reinstating the "Tribe 7" gave the admin cold feet to push forward with the Kaplan plan. It is bad PR to tell them that theyre on thin ice, when they cost only a million/year to operate, but then spend the 60Million on the arena at the same time. Yes, these sports have done a good job to ID donors to float them this year and the more expensive sports have not quite gotten there. That being said, this is the cost for ONE YEAR ONLY. Is the hat-in-hand year over year going to work? Are the original donors for Kaplan reconsidering the purpose of their donation to fund the sports in a more boring budgetary manner? Are these pussyfooting remarks designed to delay until things are more calm politically? It would be nice for him to say something along the lines of, "The Kaplan project will move forward, the donors are committed, but we had to readdress pressing short-term needs due to COVID and revisiting our plan for cutting sports. We will continue to work on long-term funding for these olympic sports and we believe that they should continue here for the long-term, but these donors have yet to be identified. Our timetable has changed, but our donors and the ADs office wish to continue with this bold plan for athletics in the near future, as we believe that this Kaplan project will truly enhance all athletic programs here at W&M."

To expand needed revenue overall, I would like to see we follow the approach from 2019 when we scheduled two FBS games. Football is really the only program we have that can offer quick options for added funds. We have plenty of nearby rivals and options.

I personally don’t worry about any impact on FCS playoffs. History shows if you finish in the top 3 of the CAA, you will make the field regardless of OOC results.

(03-03-2021 08:47 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(03-02-2021 05:02 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-02-2021 12:26 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

I'm not disagreeing and this isn't a rhetorical question. What's the allegation here? That the funding is there but Martin just lacks the willpower to move forward? I don't understand what he or the department stands to gain by putting off the project if the funding is right there.

The holes in the budget that reopened with reinstating the "Tribe 7" gave the admin cold feet to push forward with the Kaplan plan. It is bad PR to tell them that theyre on thin ice, when they cost only a million/year to operate, but then spend the 60Million on the arena at the same time. Yes, these sports have done a good job to ID donors to float them this year and the more expensive sports have not quite gotten there. That being said, this is the cost for ONE YEAR ONLY. Is the hat-in-hand year over year going to work? Are the original donors for Kaplan reconsidering the purpose of their donation to fund the sports in a more boring budgetary manner? Are these pussyfooting remarks designed to delay until things are more calm politically? It would be nice for him to say something along the lines of, "The Kaplan project will move forward, the donors are committed, but we had to readdress pressing short-term needs due to COVID and revisiting our plan for cutting sports. We will continue to work on long-term funding for these olympic sports and we believe that they should continue here for the long-term, but these donors have yet to be identified. Our timetable has changed, but our donors and the ADs office wish to continue with this bold plan for athletics in the near future, as we believe that this Kaplan project will truly enhance all athletic programs here at W&M."

No disrespect intended, but I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room. You mention the 7 sports costs and you are correct about the money needed, self funding, etc. The real problem is that the Tribe Club reserves have been drained. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I believe that the projections show that the non-reserved money will be gone soon. That money can only be recovered with a surplus over our existing budget. We don't have any revenue other than some money from paid games, FLO, and some conference/NCAA money.

Think about it this way. If we were 15 million short on Kaplan in terms of total budget needed, does it make sense to break ground without fully understanding where the money is coming from. People mention a debt issuance as a potential idea. Where does the money come from to pay back the debt? It isn't like the State of VA is going to do it out of their budget. They don't want to pay much as it is. If they can find the money from donations, I'm all for moving forward.

(03-03-2021 11:14 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 08:47 AM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(03-02-2021 05:02 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(03-02-2021 12:26 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  2/3 of the cost was pledged, formal renderings released and a timeline for construction exists. Yes, the project was absolutely shovel-ready. The residual donor financing is TBD, but up front would usually financed by bonds. Numerous "peer institutions" have been able to move forward in this way. Zable renovation, Alumni house expansion etc I believe happened this way. The project should be a priority as well as funding scholarships etc, not either/or. There should be a harder push and this wavering is concerning to me and shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the department to do any more than tread water.

I'm not disagreeing and this isn't a rhetorical question. What's the allegation here? That the funding is there but Martin just lacks the willpower to move forward? I don't understand what he or the department stands to gain by putting off the project if the funding is right there.

The holes in the budget that reopened with reinstating the "Tribe 7" gave the admin cold feet to push forward with the Kaplan plan. It is bad PR to tell them that theyre on thin ice, when they cost only a million/year to operate, but then spend the 60Million on the arena at the same time. Yes, these sports have done a good job to ID donors to float them this year and the more expensive sports have not quite gotten there. That being said, this is the cost for ONE YEAR ONLY. Is the hat-in-hand year over year going to work? Are the original donors for Kaplan reconsidering the purpose of their donation to fund the sports in a more boring budgetary manner? Are these pussyfooting remarks designed to delay until things are more calm politically? It would be nice for him to say something along the lines of, "The Kaplan project will move forward, the donors are committed, but we had to readdress pressing short-term needs due to COVID and revisiting our plan for cutting sports. We will continue to work on long-term funding for these olympic sports and we believe that they should continue here for the long-term, but these donors have yet to be identified. Our timetable has changed, but our donors and the ADs office wish to continue with this bold plan for athletics in the near future, as we believe that this Kaplan project will truly enhance all athletic programs here at W&M."

No disrespect intended, but I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room. You mention the 7 sports costs and you are correct about the money needed, self funding, etc. The real problem is that the Tribe Club reserves have been drained. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I believe that the projections show that the non-reserved money will be gone soon. That money can only be recovered with a surplus over our existing budget. We don't have any revenue other than some money from paid games, FLO, and some conference/NCAA money.

Think about it this way. If we were 15 million short on Kaplan in terms of total budget needed, does it make sense to break ground without fully understanding where the money is coming from. People mention a debt issuance as a potential idea. Where does the money come from to pay back the debt? It isn't like the State of VA is going to do it out of their budget. They don't want to pay much as it is. If they can find the money from donations, I'm all for moving forward.

No of course, and no disrespect received. But if Tribe Club reserves have been depleted, yet we have large donors coming outside of Tribe Club, there is clearly a disconnect between the fundraising arm of Tribe Club and that directly tied to the AD. Perhaps this is the root of the problem.

Jeremy Martin has done a terrific job since stepping into the poor situation Samantha Huge left him.

The one area he has been reticent to say anything, at least to very interested Tribe supporters, is the current
situation with the Kaplan Arena Renovation.

What he has to do is come out with a clear statement of the current status of this major undertaking. Jeramy, just let us
know clearly where this stands and, whatever the situation, people will appreciate the clafrity.

I am aware of a situation in a non-profit organization in which I am involved that the way that funds were spent created a huge issue.

Like the Tribe Club, both restricted and un-restricted donations were accepted. For some reason, un-restricted funds were spent first, even when restricted funds were available for those areas where unrestricted funds were spent and weren't.

This created a huge issue when the organization had large, overstated balances for certain applications, but no money for general operations. That couldn't be the problem we have here could it?