(02-25-2021 03:49 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  You all have to ruin every thread, don't you? Find someone on Facebook or some $hit to argue with.

Discussion Fatigue is strong with this one

(02-25-2021 04:13 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 12:10 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 11:44 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 11:15 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:34 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.

Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.

COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.

No. What's the flu have to do with excess deaths? What makes you think that those measures aren't slowing the spread if the virus? The spread in schools may be relatively low (though would you have been willing to bet on that last fall if you were an administrator) but the spread in bars is very high, thus "lockdown" measures such as cutting off alcohol sales at 10pm. You only have to look at Sweden and it's neighbors to tell if lockdowns have any appreciable effect. 12,800 deaths in Sweden, that's 1,262/M compared to it's closest neighbor Norway which has 600 deaths at 114/M.

When there are less deaths from contagious disease over a period of years, there is a group of people that would have likely passed if they had caught the disease in that period. They are considered to be the most vulnerable in a population. This is the dry tinder theory. It is just one of a multifactor explanation for high excess mortality in 2020. It is not the only explanation, but certainly is a factor.

JMU sucks in all sports and in life!

There's some of those and we might see some corrections in the next 5-10 years since most are older. But it's clearly not the case that all these people were on their deathbed. Most were robbed of years not months. I'm out, congrats on your basketball season, nice turn around with Coach B!

Wait that's all it took to drive away the ODUh fan? Could have wrapped it up a long time ago.

(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.

You through out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.

If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.

"The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time."

Bingo!

FYI, this was a known outcome from the beginning. Thus the concept of "flatten the curve"

(02-25-2021 09:29 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.

You through out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.

If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.

"The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time."

Bingo!

FYI, this was a known outcome from the beginning. Thus the concept of "flatten the curve"

The “eye test” and “common sense” outweighs factual, scientific data?

Okay.

(02-25-2021 10:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:29 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.

You throw out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.

If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.

"The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time."

Bingo!

FYI, this was a known outcome from the beginning. Thus the concept of "flatten the curve"

The “eye test” and “common sense” outweighs factual, scientific data?

Okay.

Is the data being shared by the CDC good enough for you? Have you read it? I have. The CDC data and the “eye test” align with each other but go ahead and take one sentence from a long post so you can change the context of what was shared.

Name one amateur or professional athlete that has died from Covid. Lots of positive tests. No hospitalizations nor deaths. Why is this? Could it be because they are in great physical condition and not insulin resistant?

What scientific data are you referring to? Are you saying the CDC information is wrong?

(02-26-2021 12:56 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:29 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.

You throw out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.

If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.

"The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time."

Bingo!

FYI, this was a known outcome from the beginning. Thus the concept of "flatten the curve"

The “eye test” and “common sense” outweighs factual, scientific data?

Okay.

Is the data being shared by the CDC good enough for you? Have you read it? I have. The CDC data and the “eye test” align with each other but go ahead and take one sentence from a long post so you can change the context of what was shared.

Name one amateur or professional athlete that has died from Covid. Lots of positive tests. No hospitalizations nor deaths. Why is this? Could it be because they are in great physical condition and not insulin resistant?

What scientific data are you referring to? Are you saying the CDC information is wrong?

Nice try at CYA.

Are you confident that out of over the 500k+ COVID related deaths (and counting) there are zero athletes? Amateur or professional? How many COVID deaths of people that you would describe as “athletic” would it take to make your thesis null and void? One? Two? Several hundred or a thousand? You might want to rethink your rather hyperbolic claim that no athletes have died of COVID.

As for CDC data that has guided our best attempts to understand this horrible virus, I don’t think the “eye test” is a CDC measurement.

Interpretation of scientific data (just like specialized data from other fields of professional knowledge) will almost always vary depending on the training, level of education, experience and background of the person (or persons) doing the interpreting. But making an important decision based on an “eye test”? Really? That’s how you roll with other important decisions in your life?

One of the reasons the Mayo Clinic is so highly thought of is their collaborative methods of consultation between a number of medical specialists in diagnosing and treating health needs. The CDC operates in much the same way.

“Common sense” is always appreciated, but my reading of CDC data or recommendations is not the question here. My “common sense” is of little value in deciphering highly complex scientific data. I’m not trained or educated to do that. “Common sense” only comes into play as it informs my willingness to trust and then practice CDC and other appropriate health agency guidelines when trying to protect myself and family from the virus.

As a child we might be told by a parent not to touch the stove top because it’s hot, yet, some of us will touch it anyway. “Common sense” will tell us not to touch it again, still we’ve got to deal with the initial burned fingers. An old country song by Merle Haggard comes to mind...with the lyric “I turned 21 in prison doing life with no parole...Mama always told me better”

It’s said wisdom to make the right decision comes from experience, and that experience comes from making poor decisions. It would appear that there is a pandemic of stubborn independence at play in our country over how to respond to COVID medical advice. It’s a stubbornness that clings to an immature notion that an “eye test” can guide us (some variation of I can’t see the virus, so it must not be real) or “only 10% of the country has caught it and most people recover” so I’ll take my chances.

In another thread (the one on whether we would have sports in the Fall of 2020...the thread is now locked in OT) I shared an insight from a medical pro at another university about the trajectory of COVID deaths in the U.S.
I can’t remember the exact date of my post (it was around late Spring or early Summer), and the insight from my medical pro was that there would be 300k deaths attributable to COVID by March, 2021...the anniversary of COVID’s nasty breakout. One of the responses to that post was a cry of disbelief and denial.

Most all of us are suffering from COVID fatigue, and I don’t mean to beat you up Nation, or BDK or any of the other fine JMU sports fans who are essentially “COVID Deniers”...or at the very least, in the camp that want to minimize the impact of this terrible virus. Yet, I am tired not so much of the isolation and restrictions placed on us by this disease, but on the unwillingness to accept the reality of this virus, and that if we would all just put aside our objections for a short period of time we could return to a more normal life.

End of rant.

It's almost as if countries that took this seriously from the start are back to the normal life that so many here are clamoring for. Funny how that works isnt it?

(02-26-2021 07:44 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  It's almost as if countries that took this seriously from the start are back to the normal life that so many here are clamoring for. Funny how that works isnt it?

I have European friends that are suffering greatly. Not only were they hospitalized with a severe form of covid, after recovery they are still legally restricted from even stepping outside their front door without specific permission. They have been in a strict extended lockdown for a long time. Many there are unemployed due to this. They are relatively young and not the demographic associated with severe illness. I do not envy their situation. Anyone who thinks the rest of the world is “back to normal” has not spoken with enough people outside the US.

More restrictions do not always produce better results, though common sense can help reduce the rate of spread.

(02-26-2021 05:10 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 12:56 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:29 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.

You throw out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.

If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.

"The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time."

Bingo!

FYI, this was a known outcome from the beginning. Thus the concept of "flatten the curve"

The “eye test” and “common sense” outweighs factual, scientific data?

Okay.

Is the data being shared by the CDC good enough for you? Have you read it? I have. The CDC data and the “eye test” align with each other but go ahead and take one sentence from a long post so you can change the context of what was shared.

Name one amateur or professional athlete that has died from Covid. Lots of positive tests. No hospitalizations nor deaths. Why is this? Could it be because they are in great physical condition and not insulin resistant?

What scientific data are you referring to? Are you saying the CDC information is wrong?

Nice try at CYA.

Are you confident that out of over the 500k+ COVID related deaths (and counting) there are zero athletes? Amateur or professional? How many COVID deaths of people that you would describe as “athletic” would it take to make your thesis null and void? One? Two? Several hundred or a thousand? You might want to rethink your rather hyperbolic claim that no athletes have died of COVID.

As for CDC data that has guided our best attempts to understand this horrible virus, I don’t think the “eye test” is a CDC measurement.

Interpretation of scientific data (just like specialized data from other fields of professional knowledge) will almost always vary depending on the training, level of education, experience and background of the person (or persons) doing the interpreting. But making an important decision based on an “eye test”? Really? That’s how you roll with other important decisions in your life?

One of the reasons the Mayo Clinic is so highly thought of is their collaborative methods of consultation between a number of medical specialists in diagnosing and treating health needs. The CDC operates in much the same way.

“Common sense” is always appreciated, but my reading of CDC data or recommendations is not the question here. My “common sense” is of little value in deciphering highly complex scientific data. I’m not trained or educated to do that. “Common sense” only comes into play as it informs my willingness to trust and then practice CDC and other appropriate health agency guidelines when trying to protect myself and family from the virus.

As a child we might be told by a parent not to touch the stove top because it’s hot, yet, some of us will touch it anyway. “Common sense” will tell us not to touch it again, still we’ve got to deal with the initial burned fingers. An old country song by Merle Haggard comes to mind...with the lyric “I turned 21 in prison doing life with no parole...Mama always told me better”

It’s said wisdom to make the right decision comes from experience, and that experience comes from making poor decisions. It would appear that there is a pandemic of stubborn independence at play in our country over how to respond to COVID medical advice. It’s a stubbornness that clings to an immature notion that an “eye test” can guide us (some variation of I can’t see the virus, so it must not be real) or “only 10% of the country has caught it and most people recover” so I’ll take my chances.

In another thread (the one on whether we would have sports in the Fall of 2020...the thread is now locked in OT) I shared an insight from a medical pro at another university about the trajectory of COVID deaths in the U.S.
I can’t remember the exact date of my post (it was around late Spring or early Summer), and the insight from my medical pro was that there would be 300k deaths attributable to COVID by March, 2021...the anniversary of COVID’s nasty breakout. One of the responses to that post was a cry of disbelief and denial.

Most all of us are suffering from COVID fatigue, and I don’t mean to beat you up Nation, or BDK or any of the other fine JMU sports fans who are essentially “COVID Deniers”...or at the very least, in the camp that want to minimize the impact of this terrible virus. Yet, I am tired not so much of the isolation and restrictions placed on us by this disease, but on the unwillingness to accept the reality of this virus, and that if we would all just put aside our objections for a short period of time we could return to a more normal life.

End of rant.

You make the mistake of reading a post and placing your own meaning to it. Common sense does come from education and experience by the way. Others call it street smarts. I don’t need to CYA when someone else attaches their interpretation of my post. My replies are simply an effort to accurately state what I said as I endure angry judgmental people jumping at the chance to rip others apart for their perceived opinions.

The CDC stat I referred to was 2000 deaths in people 30 and under. That age covers all high school and college age kids plus most of the pros. Don’t you think it would have been all over the news if any of those 2000 was an athlete? Don’t you think sports would have been halted altogether if this demographic was experiencing severe illness from Covid? My common sense says there would be no amateur or pro sports if this was or became the case. We all follow sports pretty closely. I haven’t heard of a Covid death on ESPN, CBS, YAHOO or my local station. Have you? If it has happened, it is highly, highly remote.

Our leaders should not be shutting down games because of positive tests in high school, college and pro athletes. I know you don’t agree with this but it is my opinion based on one years data. These folks aren’t dying or being hospitalized. The overwhelming majority are asymptomatic. We want the virus to pass among the asymptomatic group. This along with immunizations will get us to herd immunity.

The scientific data overwhelmingly shows this is a disease that hits the elderly and those that are insulin resistant. I read the CDC statistics. I watch the news reports. I have seen presentations on the subject matter all in an effort to educate myself and protect my loved ones. Everything I have learned and experienced “eye test” supports the data I see by the CDC. Yes the eye test by itself isn’t enough. I would hope you would assume that but you like to assume people are stupid and then blast them for their stupidity. I like to read/educate first then apply the eye test. What is the old saying? Believe none of what you read, half of what you hear and 100% of what you see with your own two eyes. The “science” needs to be validated with real life for me otherwise it is an educated guess just like your professional who predicted 300k deaths.

(02-26-2021 08:04 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 07:44 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  It's almost as if countries that took this seriously from the start are back to the normal life that so many here are clamoring for. Funny how that works isnt it?

I have European friends that are suffering greatly. Not only were they hospitalized with a severe form of covid, after recovery they are still legally restricted from even stepping outside their front door without specific permission. They have been in a strict extended lockdown for a long time. Many there are unemployed due to this. They are relatively young and not the demographic associated with severe illness. I do not envy their situation. Anyone who thinks the rest of the world is “back to normal” has not spoken with enough people outside the US.

More restrictions do not always produce better results, though common sense can help reduce the rate of spread.

I didnt say "rest of the world" Look at New zealand, australia, iceland, taiwan. I understand geography plays a large factor but it takes a competent government, dedicating resources and technology for testing, contact tracing etc, and a population that understands its not about me.

I mean just look at the contact tracing the NFL and even college football used to stop the spread when there were positive cases. A full season was able to be played in a sport that is the very definition of close contact

NFL might not be a good example to use here. Just check out the data for positive tests by day of the week. Magically on Sundays, hardly anyone ever reported positives. The NFL’s honesty should be held in question if you examine this anomaly.

(02-26-2021 08:58 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  NFL might not be a good example to use here. Just check out the data for positive tests by day of the week. Magically on Sundays, hardly anyone ever reported positives. The NFL’s honesty should be held in question if you examine this anomaly.

Agreed but I can only go off of what actually happened. You know what they say about assuming

Guys, Nation has crunched the numbers on the statistics that are available to anyone with eyes and a web browser. Since, very obviously, no one else has done the same, it makes his viewpoint correct. Case closed.

(02-26-2021 07:44 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  It's almost as if countries that took this seriously from the start are back to the normal life that so many here are clamoring for. Funny how that works isnt it?

what countries?

"took this seriously" What does that even mean? California took this virus pretty seriously from a top down approach. So did New York. Why arent they doing well?

(02-26-2021 08:52 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  I didnt say "rest of the world" Look at New zealand, australia, iceland, taiwan. I understand geography plays a large factor but it takes a competent government, dedicating resources and technology for testing, contact tracing etc, and a population that understands its not about me.

I mean just look at the contact tracing the NFL and even college football used to stop the spread when there were positive cases. A full season was able to be played in a sport that is the very definition of close contact

Its almost like these countries have something in common

(02-25-2021 04:50 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 03:49 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  You all have to ruin every thread, don't you? Find someone on Facebook or some $hit to argue with.

Discussion Fatigue is strong with this one

"Strong" is not a strong enough word. Fcking exhausting.

Yeah I get that. I’m very grateful to have been allowed to be vaccinated, but know that I’m lucky to be in this position. I hope everyone is able to get back to doing everything that makes life great ASAP.

Lots of sports playing this weekend! Here's today's (2/26) schedule of events:

1. Men's Basketball vs Drexel - 4 PM - FLO
2. Women's Lax vs High Point - 4 PM - just Live Stats for this one. Boo! Although their Twitter account usually has highlights of the goals
3. Women's Volleyball at UNCW - 5 PM - Hello, Stretch Internet, my old friend... CAA.tv online or the CAA.tv app on Roku.

(02-26-2021 10:50 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  Lots of sports playing this weekend! Here's today's (2/26) schedule of events:

1. Men's Basketball vs Drexel - 4 PM - FLO
2. Women's Lax vs High Point - 4 PM - just Live Stats for this one. Boo! Although their Twitter account usually has highlights of the goals
3. Women's Volleyball at UNCW - 5 PM - Hello, Stretch Internet, my old friend... CAA.tv online or the CAA.tv app on Roku.

Yes. Thanks. Go Dukes.

Here is Saturday's (2/27) Schedule:

1. Indoor Track and Field is competing in the Mason Winter Fiesta - all day event
2A. Softball has a Double header at UVA: at UVA - Noon - ACCNX
2B. Softball: vs GWU - 5:30 PM - just Live Stats/Twitter
3. Football: vs Bobby Morris - Noon - Flo/NBCSW+/etc.
4. Swimming and Diving: hosting the Duke Dog Diving Invite - Noon - follow along on Twitter
5. Volleyball: at UNCW - 1 PM - Stretch Internet/CAA.tv
6. Men's Tennis: at VCU - 1 PM - Live Stats/Twitter
7. Women's Basketball: at Drexel - 1 PM - Flo
8. Men's Soccer: at GMU - 2 PM - ESPN+

This super season is intense!