(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

As long as Moccia is AD, NMSU will not drop down to the FCS level. Moccia is willing to do the work to keep us as an FBS school; even it is as an independent. NMSU simply can't afford to drop down a division. Even losing at the FBS level, NMSU makes more money than if they were winning at the FCS level. I think Aggie fans understand that... but the losses would sting so much if our Aggies were at least competitive. Over time Martin has let the program regress and frustrated Aggie fans to no end. We needs a new coach with a new energy. A coaching change might not fix our institutional problems but it will restore a fan interest in Aggie football... for a few years. And, who knows we might actually get lucky and find a coach with a winning approach to the program.

(02-21-2021 09:23 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

As long as Moccia is AD, NMSU will not drop down to the FCS level. Moccia is willing to do the work to keep us as an FBS school; even it is as an independent. NMSU simply can't afford to drop down a division. Even losing at the FBS level, NMSU makes more money than if they were winning at the FCS level. I think Aggie fans understand that... but the losses would sting so much if our Aggies were at least competitive. Over time Martin has let the program regress and frustrated Aggie fans to no end. We needs a new coach with a new energy. A coaching change might not fix our institutional problems but it will restore a fan interest in Aggie football... for a few years. And, who knows we might actually get lucky and find a coach with a winning approach to the program.

Until and unless you fix the institutional issues you'd just be spinning your wheels with coaching changes.

(02-21-2021 09:31 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 09:23 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

As long as Moccia is AD, NMSU will not drop down to the FCS level. Moccia is willing to do the work to keep us as an FBS school; even it is as an independent. NMSU simply can't afford to drop down a division. Even losing at the FBS level, NMSU makes more money than if they were winning at the FCS level. I think Aggie fans understand that... but the losses would sting so much if our Aggies were at least competitive. Over time Martin has let the program regress and frustrated Aggie fans to no end. We needs a new coach with a new energy. A coaching change might not fix our institutional problems but it will restore a fan interest in Aggie football... for a few years. And, who knows we might actually get lucky and find a coach with a winning approach to the program.

Until and unless you fix the institutional issues you'd just be spinning your wheels with coaching changes.

First thing is NMSU needs to stop hiring "retread" head coaches (or position assistant coaches) as our head coach; who haven't proven they can lead a winning program. NMSU is not going to get a proven winning head coach on the cheap.

And, NMSU either needs to break the bank and hiring a proven winning coach; with baggage looking for a new job... the only way NMSU can get a good coach. Or, NMSU needs to take a chance on hiring a young upstart lower division head coach who is full of piss and vinegar; who has the abundance of energy to bust his butt everyday to make this program a winner; leaving no stone unturned.

Someone needs to take a defibrillator to the football program and shock it back to life. It been dying a slow death since the 1970's.

(02-21-2021 09:54 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 09:31 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 09:23 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

As long as Moccia is AD, NMSU will not drop down to the FCS level. Moccia is willing to do the work to keep us as an FBS school; even it is as an independent. NMSU simply can't afford to drop down a division. Even losing at the FBS level, NMSU makes more money than if they were winning at the FCS level. I think Aggie fans understand that... but the losses would sting so much if our Aggies were at least competitive. Over time Martin has let the program regress and frustrated Aggie fans to no end. We needs a new coach with a new energy. A coaching change might not fix our institutional problems but it will restore a fan interest in Aggie football... for a few years. And, who knows we might actually get lucky and find a coach with a winning approach to the program.

Until and unless you fix the institutional issues you'd just be spinning your wheels with coaching changes.

First thing is NMSU needs to stop hiring "retread" head coaches (or position assistant coaches) as our head coach; who haven't proven they can lead a winning program. NMSU is not going to get a proven winning head coach on the cheap.

And, NMSU either needs to break the bank and hiring a proven winning coach; with baggage looking for a new job... the only way NMSU can get a good coach. Or, NMSU needs to take a chance on hiring a young upstart lower division head coach who is full of piss and vinegar; who has the abundance of energy to bust his butt everyday to make this program a winner; leaving no stone unturned.

Someone needs to take a defibrillator to the football program and shock it back to life. It been dying a slow death since the 1970's.

Whatever y'all wind up doing, good luck.

I think for NMSU to be competitive in football it might have to come from basketball and other sports budgets. I'm not sure anyone in Aggieland would be cool with losing Jans and others for the hope of football winning 6 to 7 games 5 out 10 seasons on average.

$165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

(02-21-2021 10:32 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I think for NMSU to be competitive in football it might have to come from basketball and other sports budgets. I'm not sure anyone in Aggieland would be cool with losing Jans and others for the hope of football winning 6 to 7 games 5 out 10 seasons on average.

They have to do something to become competitive. I doubt they'd be losing hand as well but they don't necessarily have to.

(02-21-2021 10:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  $165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

Difference is, we'll put that money back into our football program, not use it to fund our basketball program.

(02-21-2021 11:01 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 10:32 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I think for NMSU to be competitive in football it might have to come from basketball and other sports budgets. I'm not sure anyone in Aggieland would be cool with losing Jans and others for the hope of football winning 6 to 7 games 5 out 10 seasons on average.

They have to do something to become competitive. I doubt they'd be losing hand as well but they don't necessarily have to.

By losing Jans I mean if he gets an offer to leave to let that happen and you replace him with a guy that want cost more than 125K max until football is figured out. But I'm not sure taking a good thing and making it bad to make another program not as bad as it once was is a good idea.

(02-21-2021 11:03 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 10:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  $165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

Difference is, we'll put that money back into our football program, not use it to fund our basketball program.

One P5 game money is used to help the athlete budget. The other is used to pay off a debt to academics.

(02-21-2021 11:35 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:01 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 10:32 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I think for NMSU to be competitive in football it might have to come from basketball and other sports budgets. I'm not sure anyone in Aggieland would be cool with losing Jans and others for the hope of football winning 6 to 7 games 5 out 10 seasons on average.

They have to do something to become competitive. I doubt they'd be losing hand as well but they don't necessarily have to.

By losing Jans I mean if he gets an offer to leave to let that happen and you replace him with a guy that want cost more than 125K max until football is figured out. But I'm not sure taking a good thing and making it bad to make another program not as bad as it once was is a good idea.

Gotcha. Then why not drop FB?

(02-21-2021 11:03 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 10:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  $165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

Difference is, we'll put that money back into our football program, not use it to fund our basketball program.

Aggie basketball essentially funds itself and doesn't draw revenue away from football. Aggie football funds itself plus the other non-revenue sports. Also, NMSU is required to pay down a multi-million dollar debt incurred about 15 years ago when a former University President (Michael Martin) decided to redirected academic funds into the athletic budget. This coincided with a time when NMSU first joined the WAC, ramped up its athletic budget to nearly 30-million, and the hiring of AD McKinley Boston, football coach Hal Mumme, and basketball coach Reggie Theus. Once The State of New Mexico found out about the misappropriation of funds years later (after Martin was hired away by LSU in 2008), it demanded that money be reimbursed back into the academic fund. This debt has been an anchor on the Athletic Department every since. And, up until this Covid era, Aggie Athletics (Mario Moccia) has been very good about paying down the debt and balancing its budget. SO, NMSU can't afford the loss of revenue generated by FBS football; as dismal as the football program is currently.

(02-21-2021 10:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  $165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

As much as you might hate to pay for a loss it wasn’t as bad as it might have been. I’m surprised any FCS team would agree to play a FBS team for 150k. The going rate seems to be 200k and up.

(02-21-2021 09:54 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 09:31 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 09:23 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

As long as Moccia is AD, NMSU will not drop down to the FCS level. Moccia is willing to do the work to keep us as an FBS school; even it is as an independent. NMSU simply can't afford to drop down a division. Even losing at the FBS level, NMSU makes more money than if they were winning at the FCS level. I think Aggie fans understand that... but the losses would sting so much if our Aggies were at least competitive. Over time Martin has let the program regress and frustrated Aggie fans to no end. We needs a new coach with a new energy. A coaching change might not fix our institutional problems but it will restore a fan interest in Aggie football... for a few years. And, who knows we might actually get lucky and find a coach with a winning approach to the program.

Until and unless you fix the institutional issues you'd just be spinning your wheels with coaching changes.

First thing is NMSU needs to stop hiring "retread" head coaches (or position assistant coaches) as our head coach; who haven't proven they can lead a winning program. NMSU is not going to get a proven winning head coach on the cheap.

And, NMSU either needs to break the bank and hiring a proven winning coach; with baggage looking for a new job... the only way NMSU can get a good coach. Or, NMSU needs to take a chance on hiring a young upstart lower division head coach who is full of piss and vinegar; who has the abundance of energy to bust his butt everyday to make this program a winner; leaving no stone unturned.

Someone needs to take a defibrillator to the football program and shock it back to life. It been dying a slow death since the 1970's.

Art Briles on line 1.

I wish you brighter whatever direction you may take.

A couple of questions though , Aggie Fans

1. When will the debt to academics be paid off? Servicing this debt seems to be a factor holding back development of the athletic department.

2. Help me make sense of the idea that you can’t afford to drop to FCS. From the discussion here you play two P5 games per year for money. FBS teams are paid a little more than double the amount of FCS teams for such games, so you’d lose 50-60% of the combined revenue. On the other hand expenses are lower for FCS teams- 63 vs 85 scholarships and lower staff salaries. Doesn’t one at least offset the other?

I understand there are other reasons for not dropping to FCS and playing in the new WAC conference, such as the loss of traditional rivalries and lower fan interest in watching FCS opponents vs Mt West. I’m just curious about the financial piece.

(02-22-2021 05:41 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  I wish you brighter whatever direction you may take.

A couple of questions though , Aggie Fans

1. When will the debt to academics be paid off? Servicing this debt seems to be a factor holding back development of the athletic department.

2. Help me make sense of the idea that you can’t afford to drop to FCS. From the discussion here you play two P5 games per year for money. FBS teams are paid a little more than double the amount of FCS teams for such games, so you’d lose 50-60% of the combined revenue. On the other hand expenses are lower for FCS teams- 63 vs 85 scholarships and lower staff salaries. Doesn’t one at least offset the other?

I understand there are other reasons for not dropping to FCS and playing in the new WAC conference, such as the loss of traditional rivalries and lower fan interest in watching FCS opponents vs Mt West. I’m just curious about the financial piece.

1. I believe before COVID it was scheduled to be paid back by 2026. I don't know how it as been changed since.

1. FBS teams are paid a lot more than double than FCS teams for P5 games. For example when we played Alabama in 2019, that game contract was worth $1.7 million. We also played Washington State for $800,000 and Ole Miss for $1.1 million. The drop from FBS to FCS would not offset the budget differences between losing the P5 contracts and saving money with scholarships and salaries. We would also lose the only big ticket games against UNM and UTEP.

As of right now we need those big money body bag games. We are set to play Kentucky and Alabama in the fall this year. Bama is paying us $1.9 million this time and UK will pay $1.2 million. I am sure things will look up when the athletic debt is paid back and we can put a couple of million from those games into the football program, but right now its a no go.

2026 is the time frame I remember as well. Until then...

(02-22-2021 08:31 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 05:41 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  I wish you brighter whatever direction you may take.

A couple of questions though , Aggie Fans

1. When will the debt to academics be paid off? Servicing this debt seems to be a factor holding back development of the athletic department.

2. Help me make sense of the idea that you can’t afford to drop to FCS. From the discussion here you play two P5 games per year for money. FBS teams are paid a little more than double the amount of FCS teams for such games, so you’d lose 50-60% of the combined revenue. On the other hand expenses are lower for FCS teams- 63 vs 85 scholarships and lower staff salaries. Doesn’t one at least offset the other?

I understand there are other reasons for not dropping to FCS and playing in the new WAC conference, such as the loss of traditional rivalries and lower fan interest in watching FCS opponents vs Mt West. I’m just curious about the financial piece.

1. I believe before COVID it was scheduled to be paid back by 2026. I don't know how it as been changed since.

1. FBS teams are paid a lot more than double than FCS teams for P5 games. For example when we played Alabama in 2019, that game contract was worth $1.7 million. We also played Washington State for $800,000 and Ole Miss for $1.1 million. The drop from FBS to FCS would not offset the budget differences between losing the P5 contracts and saving money with scholarships and salaries. We would also lose the only big ticket games against UNM and UTEP.

As of right now we need those big money body bag games. We are set to play Kentucky and Alabama in the fall this year. Bama is paying us $1.9 million this time and UK will pay $1.2 million. I am sure things will look up when the athletic debt is paid back and we can put a couple of million from those games into the football program, but right now its a no go.

Thanks. Re pay differences. I was using information I had seen about how much revenue North Texas and ACU lost when Texas A&M cancelled their original schedule last fall. UNT was set to receive 1.2 million and we lost 500k.

I did a little checking about Alabama and while they pay more for FCS games than we were set to earn, the gap is wider for FBS games. Austin Peay will make 600k vs the 1.8-1.9 the Tide will pay FBs programs. I wonder how much an FCS team earns by playing Wazzu and whether it’s closer to the 50-60% I mentioned?

Thanks for the embarrassment Tarleton. Hopefully this game gets us a new coach

NMSU is not going to go FCS. Our peers and 2 biggest rivals are UNM and UTEP. They play FBS and they stink as well. When we win 2-3 games every year, at least one of those is usually against UNM/UTEP. They are the only home game where we fill the stands. That all goes away at FCS. And the body bag games are huge for our Athletic Department bottom line.

NMSU is a basketball school. Always has been, always will be. NM is a basketball state. We live and die with basketball. That's our bread and butter. I realize that football is the cash cow and most popular sport in all of America. But in NM, basketball is king.