North Carolina Central is cutting baseball at end of the year

https://nccueaglepride.com/news/2021/2/1...hange.aspx

If not mistaken, their lineup in light of the FAMU/BC-U moves with A&T off to the Big South is the following: Norfolk State, Coppin State, UMES and Delaware State

Channelling inner DavidSt: this is the sign that NCCU is going ASUN. The Atlantic Sun was okay with UTC having no baseball so this is proof NCCU is ASUN bound.

/Qrealignment

Chicago State could join them!

That will drop them down to 4 Baseball schools (Coppin State, Delaware State, UMES, Norfolk State), which is not close to enough for that 3rd men's team sport. Football is down to the bare minimum of 6 schools (Delaware State, Morgan State, Norfolk State, Howard, NC Central, SC State).

Chicago State also dropped baseball and doesn't have football. They do not help, cannot even provide help as an affiliate.

Of note, men's golf is down to just 3 (Howard, Morgan State, NC Central), plus affiliate D-II Augusta U. who play golf in D-I.

Chicago State could be useful as a Golf associate, allowing the MEAC to sponsor for both genders. But this doesn't help the team sport count.

Only Howard plays men's soccer (moving men's and women's soccer to the NEC, along with women's lacrosse, women's golf and men's and women's swimming and diving), so starting that sport is off the table.

************************

Howard has one foot in the NEC. If men's golf isn't started one can easily see Howard adding that to their NEC portfolio. It would be an easy walk frankly for them to join the NEC.

Delaware State has also talked with the NEC, although that was likely just an inquiry. At a minimum one could see the Hornets moving baseball, women's soccer, women's lacrosse (independent) and women's golf (independent) over to the NEC given the MEAC probably won't sponsor any of those.

I think you'll see schools looking for affiliate memberships for soon to be orphaned sports

The MEAC looks headed to Great West status if they cannot find a couple baseball schools in the next two years. At the point I'd expect a complete break up. The celebration bowl is the one thing holding it together.

I wonder which of the 8 MEAC schools will be the first to pull out, signaling the beginning of the end?

at this point I think they need to sit down, figure out who has a reasonable chance at finding a D1 home, make arrangements for everyone else to enter the D2 CIAA, and make some phone calls to Liberty and the C-USA East schools to see how much they would pay for the shell and the autobid of the MEAC.

If they can get $1M apiece from 10 schools who want the charter that’s a nice golden parachute for each remaining MEAC school as they try and find their landing spot.

(02-12-2021 01:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  That will drop them down to 4 Baseball schools (Coppin State, Delaware State, UMES, Norfolk State), which is not close to enough for that 3rd men's team sport. Football is down to the bare minimum of 6 schools (Delaware State, Morgan State, Norfolk State, Howard, NC Central, SC State).

Chicago State also dropped baseball and doesn't have football. They do not help, cannot even provide help as an affiliate.

Of note, men's golf is down to just 3 (Howard, Morgan State, NC Central), plus affiliate D-II Augusta U. who play golf in D-I.

Chicago State could be useful as a Golf associate, allowing the MEAC to sponsor for both genders. But this doesn't help the team sport count.

Only Howard plays men's soccer (moving men's and women's soccer to the NEC, along with women's lacrosse, women's golf and men's and women's swimming and diving), so starting that sport is off the table.

************************

Howard has one foot in the NEC. If men's golf isn't started one can easily see Howard adding that to their NEC portfolio. It would be an easy walk frankly for them to join the NEC.

Delaware State has also talked with the NEC, although that was likely just an inquiry. At a minimum one could see the Hornets moving baseball, women's soccer, women's lacrosse (independent) and women's golf (independent) over to the NEC given the MEAC probably won't sponsor any of those.

I think you'll see schools looking for affiliate memberships for soon to be orphaned sports

The MEAC looks headed to Great West status if they cannot find a couple baseball schools in the next two years. At the point I'd expect a complete break up. The celebration bowl is the one thing holding it together.

If the MEAC loses a football schools they are in deep trouble.

The Big South could take NC Central, SC State, and/or Norfolk State. The NEC could take Howard, Morgan State, and/or Delaware St.

Best case scenario for those left behind is the SWAC allows them in as a group so they can operate under a intradivison only outside of Championship tournaments

Howard has the best chance, followed by Norfolk State, North Carolina Central and Delaware State in no particular order. Is South Carolina State financially/academically stable now? I know there were questions not that terribly long ago. Morgan State is probably the weakest of the football schools. Coppin State and UMES might need a miracle if the MEAC dies.

So let's say Howard to the NEC, North Carolina Central, Norfolk State and possibly South Carolina State to the Big South, which now needs to fortify football with the ASUN sponsoring it. Morgan State, Coppin State, UMES probably have to accept D2 at that point. Delaware State for the sake of this discussion go down to 2 as well, though they'd stand a better chance at hanging on in the NEC.

At this point, you might be better off (presuming all principals agree) to reestablish the MEAC as a D2 conference and then redistribute the D2 HBCUs into three conferences: MEAC (Mid-Atlantic), CIAA (Carolinas) and SIAC (Southeast).

MEAC: Lincoln (Pa.)*, Morgan State*, Coppin State, Maryland-Eastern Shore, Bowie State*, Virginia State*, Virginia Union*, Elizabeth City State* (Delaware State)
CIAA: Shaw*, St. Augustine's*, Fayetteville State*, Winston-Salem State*, Johnson C. Smith*, Claffin, Benedict*, Allen (South Carolina State)
SIAC: Albany State*, Savannah State*, Clark-Atlanta*, Paine, Fort Valley State*, Morehouse*, Tuskgee*, Spring Hill, Miles*, Lane*, LeMoyne-Owen, Kentucky State*, Central State (Ohio)*
*-football

The SIAC is probably always going to have a big footprint; there's no obvious way to split it into two.

Bear in mind that the Big South already will have 12 BB members come July. And even without KSU and UNA, they will have 7 FB members. I don't know how willing they are to take on MEAC charity cases. Maybe NCCU and NSU, if only to bolster their FB numbers. I suspect at least NC A&T and Hampton would be in favor of those adds. SCSU has an outside chance of an invite, but if they're to avoid dropping to D2, they may have better luck approaching the A-Sun.

Howard of course has options, the NEC being the most obvious. For DSU it's probably NEC or bust (D2) -- more likely the latter. Morgan, Coppin, and UMES have no realistic options other than D2 if the MEAC falls apart.

I like your idea of making 3 HBCU conferences in D2 if several MEAC schools have to drop.

(02-12-2021 02:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Bear in mind that the Big South already will have 12 BB members come July. And even without KSU and UNA, they will have 7 FB members. I don't know how willing they are to take on MEAC charity cases. Maybe NCCU and NSU, if only to bolster their FB numbers. I suspect at least NC A&T and Hampton would be in favor of those adds. SCSU has an outside chance of an invite, but if they're to avoid dropping to D2, they may have better luck approaching the A-Sun.

Howard of course has options, the NEC being the most obvious. For DSU it's probably NEC or bust (D2) -- more likely the latter. Morgan, Coppin, and UMES have no realistic options other than D2 if the MEAC falls apart.

I like your idea of making 3 HBCU conferences in D2 if several MEAC schools have to drop.

Fair point on the BSC's basketball roster, but there's a few things at play here:

1. After A&T's arrival and the ASUN starts sponsorship, the Big South will be down to five full members and two geographically isolated affiliates. There's not a lot of stability there, especially since it's pretty obvious that Robert Morris and Monmouth are there until they can find somewhere that fits them better.

2. If the SoCon loses schools to the ASUN, as some have speculated, they may look to the Big South to backfill. Not enough to endanger their conference status, of course, but enough that adding two MEAC schools to fortify their football won't make them oversized either.

3. Adding Norfolk State and NCCU also gives them a little boost in inventory with rivalry games against Hampton and A&T now included. That's not a huge deal for a media deal that's pennies to the FBS's dollars, but every little bit helps. Plus it further entrenches them in Hampton Roads and North Carolina's I-85 corridor. And if I may tap into my cynical side, having four HBCUs is good optics and helps get their games on TV during MLK weekend and possibly Black History Month.

Howard is sitting comfortably. They know they have a home in the NEC I’d they need it.

I agree that Delaware St is hoping to ride coat tails into the NEC if things go south.

NC Central and Norfolk St would make for a nice insurance policy for Big South. Such a move would give them 4 in VA, 6 in NC, and 4 in SC.

I also concur that SC St, Morgan St, UMES, and Coppin St are all screwed. I don’t think it necessary to form a whole new HBCU D2 conferences. I think the CIAA could accommodate all the new comers.

(02-12-2021 04:05 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 02:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Bear in mind that the Big South already will have 12 BB members come July. And even without KSU and UNA, they will have 7 FB members. I don't know how willing they are to take on MEAC charity cases. Maybe NCCU and NSU, if only to bolster their FB numbers. I suspect at least NC A&T and Hampton would be in favor of those adds. SCSU has an outside chance of an invite, but if they're to avoid dropping to D2, they may have better luck approaching the A-Sun.

Howard of course has options, the NEC being the most obvious. For DSU it's probably NEC or bust (D2) -- more likely the latter. Morgan, Coppin, and UMES have no realistic options other than D2 if the MEAC falls apart.

I like your idea of making 3 HBCU conferences in D2 if several MEAC schools have to drop.

Fair point on the BSC's basketball roster, but there's a few things at play here:

1. After A&T's arrival and the ASUN starts sponsorship, the Big South will be down to five full members and two geographically isolated affiliates. There's not a lot of stability there, especially since it's pretty obvious that Robert Morris and Monmouth are there until they can find somewhere that fits them better.

2. If the SoCon loses schools to the ASUN, as some have speculated, they may look to the Big South to backfill. Not enough to endanger their conference status, of course, but enough that adding two MEAC schools to fortify their football won't make them oversized either.

3. Adding Norfolk State and NCCU also gives them a little boost in inventory with rivalry games against Hampton and A&T now included. That's not a huge deal for a media deal that's pennies to the FBS's dollars, but every little bit helps. Plus it further entrenches them in Hampton Roads and North Carolina's I-85 corridor. And if I may tap into my cynical side, having four HBCUs is good optics and helps get their games on TV during MLK weekend and possibly Black History Month.

Exactly right.

If the Asun expansion with UTC is successful and the SoCon takes Campbell and/or Gardner Webb as football schools, then the Big South will need some remaining MEAC football schools to preserve their own football league

Any idea why Baltimore has 2 different HBCU state schools? Seems superfluous to me to operate Coppin St and Morgan St independently.

(02-12-2021 04:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Any idea why Baltimore has 2 different HBCU state schools? Seems superfluous to me to operate Coppin St and Morgan St independently.

Morgan State started as a private school that Maryland bought in 1939 and made public. I guess they serve distinct enough purposes and populations to be viable, though Morgan is twice as big, it appears.

(02-12-2021 02:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the MEAC loses a football schools they are in deep trouble.

The Big South could take NC Central, SC State, and/or Norfolk State. The NEC could take Howard, Morgan State, and/or Delaware St.

Best case scenario for those left behind is the SWAC allows them in as a group so they can operate under a intradivison only outside of Championship tournaments

"Could" is the operative word. But that does not mean would or even inclined to.

Howard to the NEC seems very plausible.
The Big South picking up an MEAC football refugee or two as an associate is somewhat plausible.

The NEC has 10 schools and 8 for football, the Big South has 12 and 7 for football. Neither is in need of an additional school. Howard however is of such value I could see the NEC adding them as an 11th -- which in turn makes a 12th possible.

Frankly I think a Great West like thing is the future. The NCAA will be loathe to take away AQs (MBB, WBB, WVB, SB) from a oldand historic HBCU conference. Football AQ isn't exercised and anyway doesn't depend on a full conference (e.g., MVFC) and there have been softball only conferences even in this decade with an AQ.

What I think will happen is the NCAA will give the MEAC a waiver and rewrite the rules to somehow accommodate their situation. They will create a loophole. We see language loopholes for the old Big East and the WAC lying around in the ByLaws. And that is ultimately what I think will happen.

You guys are way off the mark if you think the NCAA wants to crack down on any blue blood set of schools or get the bad press for picking on a set of HBCU schools. At all costs they want to avoid doing that.

(02-12-2021 07:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 02:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the MEAC loses a football schools they are in deep trouble.

The Big South could take NC Central, SC State, and/or Norfolk State. The NEC could take Howard, Morgan State, and/or Delaware St.

Best case scenario for those left behind is the SWAC allows them in as a group so they can operate under a intradivison only outside of Championship tournaments

"Could" is the operative word. But that does not mean would or even inclined to.

Howard to the NEC seems very plausible.
The Big South picking up an MEAC football refugee or two as an associate is somewhat plausible.

The NEC has 10 schools and 8 for football, the Big South has 12 and 7 for football. Neither is in need of an additional school. Howard however is of such value I could see the NEC adding them as an 11th -- which in turn makes a 12th possible.

Frankly I think a Great West like thing is the future. The NCAA will be loathe to take away AQs (MBB, WBB, WVB, SB) from a oldand historic HBCU conference. Football AQ isn't exercised and anyway doesn't depend on a full conference (e.g., MVFC) and there have been softball only conferences even in this decade with an AQ.

What I think will happen is the NCAA will give the MEAC a waiver and rewrite the rules to somehow accommodate their situation. They will create a loophole. We see language loopholes for the old Big East and the WAC lying around in the ByLaws. And that is ultimately what I think will happen.

You guys are way off the mark if you think the NCAA wants to crack down on any blue blood set of schools or get the bad press for picking on a set of HBCU schools. At all costs they want to avoid doing that.

In the immediate future unlikely. But ya never know if the dominoes fall a certain way with this ASun expansion.

I don't think they will accommodate the MEAC permanently other than give them a longer than normal grace period.

It would be nice if the MEAC and Big South could rearrange along football/non-football lines. The four Big South football schools go to the MEAC. The non-football MEAC schools head to the Big South.

Big South (10)
Coppin State, UMES, Radford, Longwood, Liberty, Presbyterian, USC Upstate, Winthrop, UNC Asheville, High Point

MEAC (10/12)
North - Delaware State, Morgan State, Howard, Norfolk State, Monmouth (football only), Robert Morris (football only)
South - NC Central, SC State, NC A&T, Campbell, Charleston Southern, Gardner-Webb

From Baseball America...

BCU and FAMU have long been the MEAC’s baseball powerhouses and losing them, especially to the SWAC, is a blow. All the departures have put the MEAC in a difficult position. By July 1, 2021, the conference will only have four baseball-playing members, two less than is required for an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.

When a conference falls one team below the minimum number of members in a given sport, it is automatically given a two-year waiver to find a solution. But that automatic waiver does not apply if a conference is two teams short. As it stands, the future of the MEAC as a baseball conference is now in doubt.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/...e-preview/

(02-12-2021 02:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Bear in mind that the Big South already will have 12 BB members come July. And even without KSU and UNA, they will have 7 FB members. I don't know how willing they are to take on MEAC charity cases. Maybe NCCU and NSU, if only to bolster their FB numbers. I suspect at least NC A&T and Hampton would be in favor of those adds. SCSU has an outside chance of an invite, but if they're to avoid dropping to D2, they may have better luck approaching the A-Sun.

Howard of course has options, the NEC being the most obvious. For DSU it's probably NEC or bust (D2) -- more likely the latter. Morgan, Coppin, and UMES have no realistic options other than D2 if the MEAC falls apart.

I like your idea of making 3 HBCU conferences in D2 if several MEAC schools have to drop.

There are some schools at the Northeast 10 Conference are looking to moving to D1 from D2. Bentley, New Haven and Southern New Hampshire. I think Southern New Hampshire is out of running because their financial issues and enrollment is down. NEC would look to adding Bentley and New Haven first before adding any MEAC schools.

(02-12-2021 02:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 01:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  That will drop them down to 4 Baseball schools (Coppin State, Delaware State, UMES, Norfolk State), which is not close to enough for that 3rd men's team sport. Football is down to the bare minimum of 6 schools (Delaware State, Morgan State, Norfolk State, Howard, NC Central, SC State).

Chicago State also dropped baseball and doesn't have football. They do not help, cannot even provide help as an affiliate.

Of note, men's golf is down to just 3 (Howard, Morgan State, NC Central), plus affiliate D-II Augusta U. who play golf in D-I.

Chicago State could be useful as a Golf associate, allowing the MEAC to sponsor for both genders. But this doesn't help the team sport count.

Only Howard plays men's soccer (moving men's and women's soccer to the NEC, along with women's lacrosse, women's golf and men's and women's swimming and diving), so starting that sport is off the table.

************************

Howard has one foot in the NEC. If men's golf isn't started one can easily see Howard adding that to their NEC portfolio. It would be an easy walk frankly for them to join the NEC.

Delaware State has also talked with the NEC, although that was likely just an inquiry. At a minimum one could see the Hornets moving baseball, women's soccer, women's lacrosse (independent) and women's golf (independent) over to the NEC given the MEAC probably won't sponsor any of those.

I think you'll see schools looking for affiliate memberships for soon to be orphaned sports

The MEAC looks headed to Great West status if they cannot find a couple baseball schools in the next two years. At the point I'd expect a complete break up. The celebration bowl is the one thing holding it together.

If the MEAC loses a football schools they are in deep trouble.

The Big South could take NC Central, SC State, and/or Norfolk State. The NEC could take Howard, Morgan State, and/or Delaware St.

Best case scenario for those left behind is the SWAC allows them in as a group so they can operate under a intradivison only outside of Championship tournaments

No Division I conference would take Morgan St., Delaware St., Coppin St. or Maryland Eastern Shore. Doubtful even the SWAC would take South Carolina St. Howard has a decent shot simply because of their academic prestige. NCCU and Norfolk have to hope someone is interested.

(02-12-2021 10:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 02:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 01:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  That will drop them down to 4 Baseball schools (Coppin State, Delaware State, UMES, Norfolk State), which is not close to enough for that 3rd men's team sport. Football is down to the bare minimum of 6 schools (Delaware State, Morgan State, Norfolk State, Howard, NC Central, SC State).

Chicago State also dropped baseball and doesn't have football. They do not help, cannot even provide help as an affiliate.

Of note, men's golf is down to just 3 (Howard, Morgan State, NC Central), plus affiliate D-II Augusta U. who play golf in D-I.

Chicago State could be useful as a Golf associate, allowing the MEAC to sponsor for both genders. But this doesn't help the team sport count.

Only Howard plays men's soccer (moving men's and women's soccer to the NEC, along with women's lacrosse, women's golf and men's and women's swimming and diving), so starting that sport is off the table.

************************

Howard has one foot in the NEC. If men's golf isn't started one can easily see Howard adding that to their NEC portfolio. It would be an easy walk frankly for them to join the NEC.

Delaware State has also talked with the NEC, although that was likely just an inquiry. At a minimum one could see the Hornets moving baseball, women's soccer, women's lacrosse (independent) and women's golf (independent) over to the NEC given the MEAC probably won't sponsor any of those.

I think you'll see schools looking for affiliate memberships for soon to be orphaned sports

The MEAC looks headed to Great West status if they cannot find a couple baseball schools in the next two years. At the point I'd expect a complete break up. The celebration bowl is the one thing holding it together.

If the MEAC loses a football schools they are in deep trouble.

The Big South could take NC Central, SC State, and/or Norfolk State. The NEC could take Howard, Morgan State, and/or Delaware St.

Best case scenario for those left behind is the SWAC allows them in as a group so they can operate under a intradivison only outside of Championship tournaments

No Division I conference would take Morgan St., Delaware St., Coppin St. or Maryland Eastern Shore. Doubtful even the SWAC would take South Carolina St. Howard has a decent shot simply because of their academic prestige. NCCU and Norfolk have to hope someone is interested.

Of the remaining MEAC schools, I only see Howard, Norfolk St, and North Carolina Central as having legitimate options to join another Division I conference. The others might if there’s a need. I liked the idea of OVC remnants (if there’s more defections) joining with the remaining MEAC schools plus Chicago St.