(01-25-2021 05:57 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move

Can't do that. MVFC doesn't offer OLY. ASUN does. YSU couldn't be in ASUN for FB and Oly on Horizon since ASUN offers all sports.

Nothing prevents a conference from having football only affiliates—

Ex. UC Davis and Cal Poly keep their Olympic sports in the Big West and their football in the Big Sky.

I know over heard mentioned either by one of the UCA AD videos or Ted Gumbart, or somewhere, I cant remember, that there is a possibility of a football associate or two. Maybe that will be announced with the official announcement... who knows?

But if it's just the 5, then it will have to be in the Big South until a 6th or associate members are made.

The Big South will then have 12 total, I've been told about the possibility of divisions and how it would play out.

West
UCA, UNA, JSU, KSU, EKU, Gardner Webb

East
Monmouth, RMU, Hampton, NCA&T, Campbell, Charleston Southern.

(01-25-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:57 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move

Can't do that. MVFC doesn't offer OLY. ASUN does. YSU couldn't be in ASUN for FB and Oly on Horizon since ASUN offers all sports.

Nothing prevents a conference from having football only affiliates—

Ex. UC Davis and Cal Poly keep their Olympic sports in the Big West and their football in the Big Sky.

Youngstown could make the football only move from the single sport MVFC to being a football affiliate of the ASun, but im not sure why they would?

Do you think Bellarmine and Lipscomb to the OVC, effectively making EKU and J’ville St a trade?

Also, what’s your mindset if you’re one of those 2 or the FL schools and you don’t do scholarship football? Gummbart is paving the way for a future where your athletic program doesn’t fit in with the ones he’s trying to bring in.

(01-25-2021 08:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Do you think Bellarmine and Lipscomb to the OVC, effectively making EKU and J’ville St a trade?

Also, what’s your mindset if you’re one of those 2 or the FL schools and you don’t do scholarship football? Gummbart is paving the way for a future where your athletic program doesn’t fit in with the ones he’s trying to bring in.

I think WIU would be a shoein because of their geography and a willing and able D1 football school.

I also think Belmont goes to bat for Lipscomb and is successful. There aren't any other realistic football adds after WIU.

Robert Morris may be able to be swayed to join as an affiliate if the OVC asked.

(01-25-2021 09:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Do you think Bellarmine and Lipscomb to the OVC, effectively making EKU and J’ville St a trade?

Also, what’s your mindset if you’re one of those 2 or the FL schools and you don’t do scholarship football? Gummbart is paving the way for a future where your athletic program doesn’t fit in with the ones he’s trying to bring in.

I think WIU would be a shoein because of their geography and a willing and able D1 football school.

I also think Belmont goes to bat for Lipscomb and is successful. There aren't any other realistic football adds after WIU.

Robert Morris may be able to be swayed to join as an affiliate if the OVC asked.

Belmont is going to advocate for bringing competition into Nashville?

Belmont will say thanks-- but no thanks, to Lipscomb.

Belmont might advocate for Lipscomb if the alternative is Western Illinois. That could go either way.

I dont think Lipscomb has any interest in the OVC... and other than playing Belmont.....oh wait, they do that anyway...


If Lipscomb joined the OVC, that puts 3 OVC schools in Nashville.... that's not good for any parties involved, schools or conference....

In the ASUN, yes, travel to Florida is long, but the conference works it well. The benefits is, it is very easy to recruit kids when you tell them how many times you get to go to Florida. (But that's about to change) another benefit is recruiting Florida.

The Markets in the ASUN are better than the markets in the OVC.... they ain't givin that up just for Belmont.

They are a couple of hours from Louisville (Bellarmine) EKU isnt much further, they are 2 hrs from UNA, JSU is just a little longer, not far from Atlanta (KSU).

The (Bit that's about to change)

The ASUN will go to divisions... North and South, Lipscomb will not have to take a plane to Florida as often when it happens. But they still get to go to Florida. That is a recruiting tool....


So, I have been wrong before... but I dont think Lipscomb gives two craps about the OVC...

(01-25-2021 11:03 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 09:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Do you think Bellarmine and Lipscomb to the OVC, effectively making EKU and J’ville St a trade?

Also, what’s your mindset if you’re one of those 2 or the FL schools and you don’t do scholarship football? Gummbart is paving the way for a future where your athletic program doesn’t fit in with the ones he’s trying to bring in.

I think WIU would be a shoein because of their geography and a willing and able D1 football school.

I also think Belmont goes to bat for Lipscomb and is successful. There aren't any other realistic football adds after WIU.

Robert Morris may be able to be swayed to join as an affiliate if the OVC asked.

Belmont is going to advocate for bringing competition into Nashville?

Belmont and Lipscomb seem to really get along. They shared a conference together for a long time and still played each other home and home non conference. Belmont is a unique cat.

With the ASun trending towards FCS football, the OVC may be a better home with shorter trips and their old buddy Belmont to keep the focus on basketball

Neither Belmont, Lipscomb nor Tenn State are going to bring you the Nashville market, so why would Belmont or Tenn State care if Lipscomb were added? If they are competing for fans, students or players it will continue no matter the conference. Any potential member of those groups could careless if your in the ASUN, Big South or OVC. More fans in the stands will make your events more attractive and close opponents are the key to lower level conferences.

As a Belmont and Tennessee State fan, a follower of Lipscomb and a resident of Nashville, ... my take:

Lipscomb would like to be reunited with Belmont — and vice versa. As solohawks noted, the two universities have a friendly rivalry (in sports and academics).

Having said that, it seems Lipscomb has adapted nicely to the ASun and would be fine staying put. But it might leave for the OVC if invited. In contrast, I don't see Belmont having any desire to move to the ASun.

Belmont is a unusual animal for both the OVC and the South in general. It is quickly emerging as an "academic player" to some extent (with a school of medicine now planned). BU now has about 8,500 students and is under construction with an on-campus 11-story, 600-bed residential tower (it already has one such building). There simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but have 1. a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program; 2. a diversity of academic offerings and 3. a large and vibrant city as home. In short (and notwithstanding travel considerations), Belmont is an odd fit for the OVC.

(01-26-2021 09:18 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Belmont is a unusual animal for both the OVC and the South in general. It is quickly emerging as an "academic player" to some extent (with a school of medicine now planned). BU now has about 8,500 students and is under construction with an on-campus 11-story, 600-bed residential tower (it already has one such building). There simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but have 1. a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program; 2. a diversity of academic offerings and 3. a large and vibrant city as home. In short (and notwithstanding travel considerations), Belmont is an odd fit for the OVC.

I disagree with the sentiment that southern schools are an odd ball out by not having Football. Plenty of Oly-centric universities in the south. However, that's why they'd fit in a bit better with the SoCon. SoCon has worked with plenty of Southern Oly only schools and were 9/12 with College of Charleston, UNCG, and Davidson. Right now Belmont is an associate member for Men's Soccer. The SoCon has 9/10 membership right now (UNCG - no FB). A 9/11 membership wouldn't be that much different by playing 20 conference games rather than 18. They could always snag two Oly only school and go back to their old 9/12 format (Like a combo of Belmont and UNCW/Radford/UNCA/Winthrop/etc.)

(01-25-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:57 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move

Can't do that. MVFC doesn't offer OLY. ASUN does. YSU couldn't be in ASUN for FB and Oly on Horizon since ASUN offers all sports.

Nothing prevents a conference from having football only affiliates—

Ex. UC Davis and Cal Poly keep their Olympic sports in the Big West and their football in the Big Sky.

Muskie,

UC Davis and Cal Poly are also full members of the Big Sky, equity partners. Youngstown State is a full member, equity partner of the MVFC (note the "F" this is conference is not part of the MVC, it is independent but associated).

I think you are confused about the difference between full members and associates. Associates are contract members, with terms that expire, and like a contract worker you are not obliged to renew when the contract expires (e.g., Chicago State and the WAC). Even though Cal Poly, UC Davis and Youngstown State are single sport members, they are permanent full members with all the rights associated with that. They cannot be booted without cause.

You are asking Youngstown State to give up the security of full membership for a contract position, to assume the status that Chicago State had in the WAC. That just isn't going to fly. The same is true of those crazy ideas to "rid" the Big Sky of Cal Poly and UC Davis. It's not happening, it wont even be entertained by those schools.

(01-26-2021 09:40 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 09:18 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Belmont is a unusual animal for both the OVC and the South in general. It is quickly emerging as an "academic player" to some extent (with a school of medicine now planned). BU now has about 8,500 students and is under construction with an on-campus 11-story, 600-bed residential tower (it already has one such building). There simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but have 1. a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program; 2. a diversity of academic offerings and 3. a large and vibrant city as home. In short (and notwithstanding travel considerations), Belmont is an odd fit for the OVC.

I disagree with the sentiment that southern schools are an odd ball out by not having Football. Plenty of Oly-centric universities in the south. However, that's why they'd fit in a bit better with the SoCon. SoCon has worked with plenty of Southern Oly only schools and were 9/12 with College of Charleston, UNCG, and Davidson. Right now Belmont is an associate member for Men's Soccer. The SoCon has 9/10 membership right now (UNCG - no FB). A 9/11 membership wouldn't be that much different by playing 20 conference games rather than 18. They could always snag two Oly only school and go back to their old 9/12 format (Like a combo of Belmont and UNCW/Radford/UNCA/Winthrop/etc.)

I think Belmont would be an EXCELLENT addition to the SoCon and would fit in perfectly. They seem to really enjoy the limited travel costs, as they turned down a "promotion" to the MVC based on travel costs.

The SoCon's travel is a little better and its private dominated, as opposed to the public/private split the MVC has setup, so perhaps the SoCon might be of interest to Belmont.

If the SoCon is looking for a 12th to go with Belmont, I would certainly hope UNCW would try to get that slot.

(01-26-2021 09:40 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 09:18 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Belmont is a unusual animal for both the OVC and the South in general. It is quickly emerging as an "academic player" to some extent (with a school of medicine now planned). BU now has about 8,500 students and is under construction with an on-campus 11-story, 600-bed residential tower (it already has one such building). There simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but have 1. a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program; 2. a diversity of academic offerings and 3. a large and vibrant city as home. In short (and notwithstanding travel considerations), Belmont is an odd fit for the OVC.

I disagree with the sentiment that southern schools are an odd ball out by not having Football. Plenty of Oly-centric universities in the south. However, that's why they'd fit in a bit better with the SoCon. SoCon has worked with plenty of Southern Oly only schools and were 9/12 with College of Charleston, UNCG, and Davidson. Right now Belmont is an associate member for Men's Soccer. The SoCon has 9/10 membership right now (UNCG - no FB). A 9/11 membership wouldn't be that much different by playing 20 conference games rather than 18. They could always snag two Oly only school and go back to their old 9/12 format (Like a combo of Belmont and UNCW/Radford/UNCA/Winthrop/etc.)

To be clear, I did not note that there are not many schools located in the South that don't offer football and quality Olympic sports.

Specifically, I noted here simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but do offer — and in addition to a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program — a diversity of academic offerings and a large and vibrant city as home.

Big difference.

I do agree that Belmont would fit rather well in the SoCon.

(01-26-2021 09:40 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 09:18 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Belmont is a unusual animal for both the OVC and the South in general. It is quickly emerging as an "academic player" to some extent (with a school of medicine now planned). BU now has about 8,500 students and is under construction with an on-campus 11-story, 600-bed residential tower (it already has one such building). There simply are not many universities in the South that don't sponsor football but have 1. a strong all-around Olympic sports athletics program; 2. a diversity of academic offerings and 3. a large and vibrant city as home. In short (and notwithstanding travel considerations), Belmont is an odd fit for the OVC.

I disagree with the sentiment that southern schools are an odd ball out by not having Football. Plenty of Oly-centric universities in the south. However, that's why they'd fit in a bit better with the SoCon. SoCon has worked with plenty of Southern Oly only schools and were 9/12 with College of Charleston, UNCG, and Davidson. Right now Belmont is an associate member for Men's Soccer. The SoCon has 9/10 membership right now (UNCG - no FB). A 9/11 membership wouldn't be that much different by playing 20 conference games rather than 18. They could always snag two Oly only school and go back to their old 9/12 format (Like a combo of Belmont and UNCW/Radford/UNCA/Winthrop/etc.)

If the ASUN would add one non-football school, who would be your top 3 candidates?

(01-25-2021 04:06 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Missouri State will not leave the MVC for an inferior basketball conference.

My thoughts exactly. The MVC is a damn fine conference that puts teams in the final 4. Missouri State has been in the sweet 16 not too long ago. I can’t remember exactly when....but anyway even after losing Creighton and Wichita St they still have good schools with big gyms...

(01-26-2021 12:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 07:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:57 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move

Can't do that. MVFC doesn't offer OLY. ASUN does. YSU couldn't be in ASUN for FB and Oly on Horizon since ASUN offers all sports.

Nothing prevents a conference from having football only affiliates—

Ex. UC Davis and Cal Poly keep their Olympic sports in the Big West and their football in the Big Sky.

Muskie,

UC Davis and Cal Poly are also full members of the Big Sky, equity partners. Youngstown State is a full member, equity partner of the MVFC (note the "F" this is conference is not part of the MVC, it is independent but associated).

I think you are confused about the difference between full members and associates. Associates are contract members, with terms that expire, and like a contract worker you are not obliged to renew when the contract expires (e.g., Chicago State and the WAC). Even though Cal Poly, UC Davis and Youngstown State are single sport members, they are permanent full members with all the rights associated with that. They cannot be booted without cause.

You are asking Youngstown State to give up the security of full membership for a contract position, to assume the status that Chicago State had in the WAC. That just isn't going to fly. The same is true of those crazy ideas to "rid" the Big Sky of Cal Poly and UC Davis. It's not happening, it wont even be entertained by those schools.

I’m fully aware of the nuances of the MVFC vs MVFC and the unusual deal that UC Davis and Cal Poly have in the Big Sky. There’s no reason why Youngstown St can’t demand the same special arrangement that Cal Poly and UC Davis have with the Big Sky with the ASUN. If the ASUN wants them that badly they’ll offer the Penguins terms that have them cozy and secure.

(01-26-2021 01:56 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:06 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Missouri State will not leave the MVC for an inferior basketball conference.

My thoughts exactly. The MVC is a damn fine conference that puts teams in the final 4. Missouri State has been in the sweet 16 not too long ago. I can’t remember exactly when....but anyway even after losing Creighton and Wichita St they still have good schools with big gyms...

Yep. 6 of the current 10 members have made the Sweet 16 since 1998. The league has the #11 and #28 teams in NET right now and is on the bubble for a 2-bid league. It also has an iconic conference tournament that’s a manageable drive in an alumni-rich market for all 10 members.

No one’s leaving the MVC for the ASUN.