(01-18-2021 03:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 02:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:45 PM)Realignment Wrote:  It's still a Top 25 job in all of College Football.

much closer to 25 than it is 10 even. And there are what 66 P5 schools so being around #25 is pretty much right in the middle. Hardly premiere.

Its a top 15 job. Prior to the latest performance nosedive, they regularly competed for the highest attendance in all college football. Now they are down to average a mere 85,000 or so.

The last time they were nationally relevant was before today’s recruits were born. That’s not a top 15 job by any stretch of the imagination.

It's like the Indiana basketball head coaching job. It pays really well but is incredibly tough because there are a lot of loud boosters who have unrealistic expectations of winning big every year even though things are not the way they were in the program 20, 30, or 40 years ago or whenever they won really big.

And good luck to anyone who takes that job before Tennessee hires an AD, in which case the new coach will have no idea whether the new AD will have his back, or will be trying to knife him in the back to curry favor with those boosters.

They’re gonna hire the AD before the coach, at least that’s what they’re saying. But yeah, the fans still think highly of the program, despite the 20 year decline.

(01-18-2021 03:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:32 PM)Realignment Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:26 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Oh! Do tell! And who takes this job? It's a premiere job in the SEC.

I don't think it's a premiere job at all in the SEC any longer. I don't know that it's a top half job any longer.

Tennessee's 10 year trailing average Sagarin rating puts them at #40 in the FBS. The only SEC schools with a worse rating are Kentucky and Vanderbilt, though the Vols are about on a par with Ole Miss and Arkansas by that measure.

To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

Alabama in the 10 years prior to Nick Saban 67-55 and only 5 seasons with winning records. And when you drop forfeits, its 50-55 with 4 seasons with winning records.

Yet they were always a top 10 job.

Alabama in those 10 years finished in the top 11 3 times- 8th 2x and 11th once.

Tennessee in the last 10 years 60-62. With 2 times in the 21-25. Tennessee hasn't finished top 11 since 2001.

Also Alabama has a whole lot more history than Tennessee ever has. Alabama had 7 national titles before Saban took over in the poll era. Tennessee has 2.

UTN is not a top 25 job anymore IMO. Yes you have the money, but what you don't have are:

Time: New coaches are expected to have the Vols competing with the like of UF and UGA in 3 years. If not, year 4 is the hot seat and year 5 is lame duck.
Talent: The Vols used to feast on talent from GA and FL as there isn't much top talent within the state. The rise of Clemson and a resurgent Georgia have cut UTN historical talent sources.

(01-18-2021 04:15 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  UTN is not a top 25 job anymore IMO. Yes you have the money, but what you don't have are:

Time: New coaches are expected to have the Vols competing with the like of UF and UGA in 3 years. If not, year 4 is the hot seat and year 5 is lame duck.
Talent: The Vols used to feast on talent from GA and FL as there isn't much top talent within the state. The rise of Clemson and a resurgent Georgia have cut UTN historical talent sources.

yep. And you have Florida, Georgia, and Alabama every single season. And like 22-25 you have LSU, Texas A&M, Miss St, and Auburn as your 8th conference opponent. That's some years 4 top 10 opponents.

...you also have great facilities including a gigantic stadium that can provide some serious home field advantage. Think Penn State.

Tennessee isn't a top 25 job because they hired three underwhelming coaches in a row? Get a better coach and you have a higher ceiling. Obviously the coaches since Fulmer have not been top-25 head coaches. All the resources are there for Tennessee to be a perennial top-25.

(01-18-2021 06:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  ...you also have great facilities including a gigantic stadium that can provide some serious home field advantage. Think Penn State.

Tennessee isn't a top 25 job because they hired three underwhelming coaches in a row? Get a better coach and you have a higher ceiling. Obviously the coaches since Fulmer have not been top-25 head coaches. All the resources are there for Tennessee to be a perennial top-25.

compared to what they're up against in the SEC they aren't the same. They might be a top 25 job- but it's in the 20-25 range and not in the top 10.

(01-18-2021 06:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  ...you also have great facilities including a gigantic stadium that can provide some serious home field advantage. Think Penn State.

Tennessee isn't a top 25 job because they hired three underwhelming coaches in a row? Get a better coach and you have a higher ceiling. Obviously the coaches since Fulmer have not been top-25 head coaches. All the resources are there for Tennessee to be a perennial top-25.

Strongly disagree. That job is a place you go to make some dough and get fired after three years because of unrealistic expectations. Yes, Tennessee has a lot of passionate fans and big brand, but that only takes you so far. Penn State, despite all these resources, still has only won their conference a handful of times and hasn’t even sniffed the playoffs. Penn State has an easier road than Tennessee because they have great recruiting grounds and only have to get past one elite tier program in Ohio State. Tennessee has, at minimum, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida every year.

It isn’t impossible to win at Tennessee but times have moved on and they may find themselves forever wandering waiting for the golden days to return like Nebraska. It is essential for a coach to find success that they be given time, support, and flexibility. Tennessee doesn’t offer any of those as you are just as likely to have the AD pull the rug from under you your second year in. Unless I’m looking to cash in or a proud alumnus, I wouldn’t touch that school as coach with a 20 ft pole.

(01-18-2021 06:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  ...you also have great facilities including a gigantic stadium that can provide some serious home field advantage. Think Penn State.

Tennessee isn't a top 25 job because they hired three underwhelming coaches in a row? Get a better coach and you have a higher ceiling. Obviously the coaches since Fulmer have not been top-25 head coaches. All the resources are there for Tennessee to be a perennial top-25.

Again, resources isn't the issue. The way UTN has treated the past 3 coaches, regardless of pedigree, doesn't engender goodwill amongst top head coaches and their agents.

Can’t imagine that failure line in the letter to Pruitt will engender goodwill to prospective coaches.

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

being a top 21-25 job isn't a premiere job.

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

The recent coaching hires state otherwise. While the Vols certainly have the money, is that alone enough to lure the likes of James Franklin, Luke Fickell or Scott Campbell to Knoxville?

(01-18-2021 08:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

The recent coaching hires state otherwise. While the Vols certainly have the money, is that alone enough to lure the likes of James Franklin, Luke Fickell or Scott Campbell to Knoxville?

Not right now. The program has become a dumpster fire and it sad to see. I always pull for them and watching them bungle everything so bad is shocking.

(01-18-2021 08:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

The recent coaching hires state otherwise. While the Vols certainly have the money, is that alone enough to lure the likes of James Franklin, Luke Fickell or Scott Campbell to Knoxville?

Don't see how they could get Franklin under any circumstances. If Franklin is doing well at Penn State, the only Big Ten team he has to worry about is Ohio State. At Tennessee, even if the next staff does a really good job, they still have to worry about 5 or 6 SEC heavyweights.

(01-18-2021 04:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 03:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:32 PM)Realignment Wrote:  Oh! Do tell! And who takes this job? It's a premiere job in the SEC.

I don't think it's a premiere job at all in the SEC any longer. I don't know that it's a top half job any longer.

Tennessee's 10 year trailing average Sagarin rating puts them at #40 in the FBS. The only SEC schools with a worse rating are Kentucky and Vanderbilt, though the Vols are about on a par with Ole Miss and Arkansas by that measure.

To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

Alabama in the 10 years prior to Nick Saban 67-55 and only 5 seasons with winning records. And when you drop forfeits, its 50-55 with 4 seasons with winning records.

Yet they were always a top 10 job.

Alabama in those 10 years finished in the top 11 3 times- 8th 2x and 11th once.

Tennessee in the last 10 years 60-62. With 2 times in the 21-25. Tennessee hasn't finished top 11 since 2001.

Also Alabama has a whole lot more history than Tennessee ever has. Alabama had 7 national titles before Saban took over in the poll era. Tennessee has 2.

Tennessee claims 7 or 8. Seems like whoever won that Alabama-Tennessee game claimed an MNC.

(01-18-2021 08:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 03:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think it's a premiere job at all in the SEC any longer. I don't know that it's a top half job any longer.

Tennessee's 10 year trailing average Sagarin rating puts them at #40 in the FBS. The only SEC schools with a worse rating are Kentucky and Vanderbilt, though the Vols are about on a par with Ole Miss and Arkansas by that measure.

To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

Alabama in the 10 years prior to Nick Saban 67-55 and only 5 seasons with winning records. And when you drop forfeits, its 50-55 with 4 seasons with winning records.

Yet they were always a top 10 job.

Alabama in those 10 years finished in the top 11 3 times- 8th 2x and 11th once.

Tennessee in the last 10 years 60-62. With 2 times in the 21-25. Tennessee hasn't finished top 11 since 2001.

Also Alabama has a whole lot more history than Tennessee ever has. Alabama had 7 national titles before Saban took over in the poll era. Tennessee has 2.

Tennessee claims 7 or 8. Seems like whoever won that Alabama-Tennessee game claimed an MNC.

I was using the poll era. If you go to all of them it'd be 17-7 before Saban got there.

(01-18-2021 07:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

being a top 21-25 job isn't a premiere job.

There aren't 20 better jobs. Missouri? Arizona? Iowa? North Carolina? List them.
There are about 10 clearly better. Tennessee is in the middle of that second 10.

Tennessee is one of 18 schools to win an AP MNC since 1984. They are one of only 21 to win one since 1960 (Georgia, Pitt and BYU 84 or prior). Oregon outside of that group is the only school that might be considered top 20. And do you really think Oregon is a better job than Tennessee? Is Pitt? Is BYU? That puts them #18 at the worst.

(01-18-2021 08:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 08:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 03:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  Tennessee's 10 year trailing average Sagarin rating puts them at #40 in the FBS. The only SEC schools with a worse rating are Kentucky and Vanderbilt, though the Vols are about on a par with Ole Miss and Arkansas by that measure.

To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

Alabama in the 10 years prior to Nick Saban 67-55 and only 5 seasons with winning records. And when you drop forfeits, its 50-55 with 4 seasons with winning records.

Yet they were always a top 10 job.

Alabama in those 10 years finished in the top 11 3 times- 8th 2x and 11th once.

Tennessee in the last 10 years 60-62. With 2 times in the 21-25. Tennessee hasn't finished top 11 since 2001.

Also Alabama has a whole lot more history than Tennessee ever has. Alabama had 7 national titles before Saban took over in the poll era. Tennessee has 2.

Tennessee claims 7 or 8. Seems like whoever won that Alabama-Tennessee game claimed an MNC.

I was using the poll era. If you go to all of them it'd be 17-7 before Saban got there.

I went to the stadium and couldn't believe all the "National Championship" flags they were flying.

(01-18-2021 09:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 07:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  To the extent that it could be called a premier job, it's only because they are in the SEC, not because their performance warrants it.

The Tennessee job remains a premier job not just because it's in the SEC, but because of their long pedigree of success and the 100,000 fans who fill the stadium.

It's a premier job, despite the lousy performance of the past years.

being a top 21-25 job isn't a premiere job.

There aren't 20 better jobs. Missouri? Arizona? Iowa? North Carolina? List them.
There are about 10 clearly better. Tennessee is in the middle of that second 10.

Tennessee is one of 18 schools to win an AP MNC since 1984. They are one of only 21 to win one since 1960 (Georgia, Pitt and BYU 84 or prior). Oregon outside of that group is the only school that might be considered top 20. And do you really think Oregon is a better job than Tennessee? Is Pitt? Is BYU? That puts them #18 at the worst.

Sure there are. If it's so great then explain why the last three head coaches were Derek Dooley, Butch Jones, and Jeremy Pruitt.

When I think of a top 15 job you need to have access to talent, money, good boosters, tradition and some recent success.

In no particular order Ohio State, Texas, ND, Michigan, PSU, Wisky, UGA, UF, Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, LSU, USC, TAMU

A next tier or perhaps the bottom of the top 25 jobs in no particular order, Auburn, Tennessee, FSU, Miami, Oregon, Washington, Iowa, Louisville, Michigan State, and UCLA

Then there is a vast middling middle of places that are not top 25 jobs, but they don't suck - NW, Neb, UNC, NCSU, GT, VT, Pitt, ISU, Utah, South Carolina, Kentucky, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Cal, MSU, Colorado, Arizona, Illinois, Minnesota, MD, TCU, and Purdue.

Then there is the bottom 10 or so that have major issues due to fan base size, academics, isolation, role of basketball, etc. I put Duke, WF, BC, Vandy, Syracuse, Washington State, Oregon State, Rutgers, Kansas, TT, Baylor, KSU, and Indiana in this group for their football job.