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A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #461
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 05:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:17 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(01-11-2021 04:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Kansas moved to the Big Ten then it does make sense for Texas and Texas Tech to move to the SEC together.

I also think it makes sense for ESPN to grab a school like TCU and put them in the ACC if Notre Dame is willing to join in football. The ACC would probably snub West Virginia and they wouldn't be valuable to anyone else.

However...let us consider what Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 could cause as far as a ripple effect.

Texas and Texas Tech would have a safe home in the SEC. Oklahoma and Kansas would fit pretty well with the Big Ten. But this sort of maneuver would still put a lot of pressure on Notre Dame and the ACC as a whole to some degree.

ESPN controls the destiny of the ACC, but they also want Big Ten rights. The package from the Big Ten is coming open about the same time the Big 12 GOR ends. That's strategic, of course, but we should also consider FOX's diminished position. They will still want content, but they've given up on pursuing certain properties. They've reduced their own platform and they've sold off the very studios that would have made a streaming service viable.

The ACC is in an inferior economic position without question and if both the SEC and Big Ten get another raise with significant powers coming on board then the leaders of the ACC will have to consider giving up the ghost. They have no means of making up the gap as things stand now and the addition of Notre Dame in football is only going to do so much. That's compounded by the length of the ACC contract.

So let's consider that one of the reasons that ESPN made the ACC sign such a long term deal is to have leverage over them. At this stage, ESPN could make those schools do just about anything because there's no help coming otherwise.

The ACC powers will desperately want an outlet. ESPN will be happy to give them one provided they do exactly what ESPN wants.

If you moved Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Virginia Tech to the SEC then you have a very solid 20.

If you moved Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke to the Big Ten then you have another very solid 20.

FWIW, I played with a divisional split of the two groups. I had a very hard time coming up with any reasonable scenario that splits the Alabamian programs, as that split complicated many other areas. Therefore, I had to keep the two together, then pair LSU with them. Georgia and Georgia Tech together is a no-brainer, especially when you also can pair GT with Vanderbilt and Tennessee. Putting all the former B8 and SWC programs together is also another obvious idea. None of the original SEC members would end up in a division with former SWC and B8 programs, which is about as fair as I could come up with.

On the Big Ten, I had connect the plains programs with one of the recruiting areas, so I paired Northwestern with Nebraska and Oklahoma. The Illini is paired with the upper lakes programs. Each division is to have at least two historical programs but that proved to be nearly impossible: separating the Michigans and Wisconsin/Minnesota make no sense, so I had to put the two pairs together, thus necessarily split Michigan and Ohio State. Therefore, not only did I split Michigan/Ohio State but also the Illinois programs and ND kept away from the Michigans and Indiana public schools.

Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Northwestern
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
Notre Dame, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia

Texas Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M
Mississippi, Mississippi State, Louisiana State, Alabama, Auburn
Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, Georgia Tech, Tennessee
Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina, Kentucky, Virginia Tech

In the past when a group got too big to manage, it divided, stronger entities were formed and the lesser programs were left with the original structure and then faded away. Such was the case with the old Southern Conference and would be with any number of teams over 16.....heck that number might actually be 14, which is why school Presidents are reluctant to expand.

Perhaps the key would be to start with a playoff number (say 8 teams) and work on forming conferences of 8 or so teams rather than 16, 18, 20 or 24.
Each champion would enter the tournament. Seven game round robin conference schedules would leave plenty of room for OOC rivalries without overloading the schedule.

If 8 were not feasible in some markets, the number of schools per conference could actually go as high as 10/11 as long as the conference was willing to give up scheduling flexibility. (The PAC could actually stay in tact as an 11 team conference if necessary, but in doing so making it more difficult for any individual school to become champion and participating in the playoff).

Smaller compact conferences would be easier for fans and schools because they would be more regional and better for the media giants that paid the bills as the conferences would have less power and therefore easier to control.

When money didn't keep them together, that was true.

But obviously no one is moving backwards to 8 team leagues or the like. The natural progression is consolidation of money and power...for better or for worse.
01-13-2021 04:25 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #462
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
Just a thought based on Thamel's piece from last night...

If leagues want more conference games(and it is the most efficient way to increase payouts without sharing them with other leagues) then they need to think about large scale expansions.

Forget 16...move to 20.

Divide up into 4 divisions. Play 4 from your home division, rotate 2 from each of the other divisions, and there you have 10 conference games. You could have conference semis if you want with the 4 division winners.

The SEC should add 6.

Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State, and West Virginia
01-13-2021 04:51 PM
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Post: #463
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 04:51 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Just a thought based on Thamel's piece from last night...

If leagues want more conference games(and it is the most efficient way to increase payouts without sharing them with other leagues) then they need to think about large scale expansions.

Forget 16...move to 20.

Divide up into 4 divisions. Play 4 from your home division, rotate 2 from each of the other divisions, and there you have 10 conference games. You could have conference semis if you want with the 4 division winners.

The SEC should add 6.

Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State, and West Virginia

You’re thinking a bit too small—if the SEC goes beyond 16 they should go after both the Big 12’s best and the ACC’s best.
01-13-2021 04:59 PM
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Post: #464
A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
Football Derives revenue....Do you see Alabama splitting the loot with Football also Ran’s Kansas and Texas Tech ...???


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01-13-2021 05:55 PM
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Post: #465
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 05:55 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Football Derives revenue....Do you see Alabama splitting the loot with Football also Ran’s Kansas and Texas Tech ...???


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They do for KY, Vanderbilt and Arkansas
01-13-2021 06:42 PM
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Post: #466
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 06:42 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:55 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Football Derives revenue....Do you see Alabama splitting the loot with Football also Ran’s Kansas and Texas Tech ...???


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They do for KY, Vanderbilt and Arkansas

Hey, you had better check Kentucky and Arkansas's positions in Gross Total Revenue. They ain't Vandy. Kentucky and Arkansas are 17th and 19th nationally surpassing every school in the Big 12 save for Texas and Oklahoma.
01-13-2021 06:53 PM
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michael.stevens.3110 Offline
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Post: #467
A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


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01-13-2021 07:03 PM
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Post: #468
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 06:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 06:42 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:55 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Football Derives revenue....Do you see Alabama splitting the loot with Football also Ran’s Kansas and Texas Tech ...???


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They do for KY, Vanderbilt and Arkansas

Hey, you had better check Kentucky and Arkansas's positions in Gross Total Revenue. They ain't Vandy. Kentucky and Arkansas are 17th and 19th nationally surpassing every school in the Big 12 save for Texas and Oklahoma.

Thank you, JR. The only SEC programs to sneeze at right now are Vandy and, to a much lesser extent, Mizzou. Everyone else is earning their keep in terms of generating revenue. Texas, Oklahoma, maybe Florida State... basically everyone else would be selling ice to eskimos for the SEC to consider adding them at this point (yes, that includes Clemson since this conversation is about revenue generation). That's not to say other schools do not earn more revenue right now than some SEC schools, but those three are the only Big 12 and ACC schools who meet or surpass the current SEC school average annual revenue without counting the upcoming ESPN deal for the old CBS game of the week. If you factor in those numbers, you are left with only Texas and Oklahoma for sure as a revenue booster. I think this is a pretty cut and dry argument from the SEC's perspective.
01-13-2021 08:07 PM
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RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 07:03 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


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That is the beauty, though, of the SEC schools' relationship with each other. We are the only conference where everyone gets a full share from day one and there is no penalty for leaving the conference. It is as close to a gentleman's agreement as you get these days because no one wants to leave, and that is why the gatekeeper is so hard to bypass for new additions. I'm sure they have fiery disagreements at times, but the SEC does a great job of presenting a united front on items that matter.
01-13-2021 08:12 PM
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Post: #470
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 04:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:17 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(01-11-2021 04:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Kansas moved to the Big Ten then it does make sense for Texas and Texas Tech to move to the SEC together.

I also think it makes sense for ESPN to grab a school like TCU and put them in the ACC if Notre Dame is willing to join in football. The ACC would probably snub West Virginia and they wouldn't be valuable to anyone else.

However...let us consider what Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 could cause as far as a ripple effect.

Texas and Texas Tech would have a safe home in the SEC. Oklahoma and Kansas would fit pretty well with the Big Ten. But this sort of maneuver would still put a lot of pressure on Notre Dame and the ACC as a whole to some degree.

ESPN controls the destiny of the ACC, but they also want Big Ten rights. The package from the Big Ten is coming open about the same time the Big 12 GOR ends. That's strategic, of course, but we should also consider FOX's diminished position. They will still want content, but they've given up on pursuing certain properties. They've reduced their own platform and they've sold off the very studios that would have made a streaming service viable.

The ACC is in an inferior economic position without question and if both the SEC and Big Ten get another raise with significant powers coming on board then the leaders of the ACC will have to consider giving up the ghost. They have no means of making up the gap as things stand now and the addition of Notre Dame in football is only going to do so much. That's compounded by the length of the ACC contract.

So let's consider that one of the reasons that ESPN made the ACC sign such a long term deal is to have leverage over them. At this stage, ESPN could make those schools do just about anything because there's no help coming otherwise.

The ACC powers will desperately want an outlet. ESPN will be happy to give them one provided they do exactly what ESPN wants.

If you moved Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Virginia Tech to the SEC then you have a very solid 20.

If you moved Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke to the Big Ten then you have another very solid 20.

FWIW, I played with a divisional split of the two groups. I had a very hard time coming up with any reasonable scenario that splits the Alabamian programs, as that split complicated many other areas. Therefore, I had to keep the two together, then pair LSU with them. Georgia and Georgia Tech together is a no-brainer, especially when you also can pair GT with Vanderbilt and Tennessee. Putting all the former B8 and SWC programs together is also another obvious idea. None of the original SEC members would end up in a division with former SWC and B8 programs, which is about as fair as I could come up with.

On the Big Ten, I had connect the plains programs with one of the recruiting areas, so I paired Northwestern with Nebraska and Oklahoma. The Illini is paired with the upper lakes programs. Each division is to have at least two historical programs but that proved to be nearly impossible: separating the Michigans and Wisconsin/Minnesota make no sense, so I had to put the two pairs together, thus necessarily split Michigan and Ohio State. Therefore, not only did I split Michigan/Ohio State but also the Illinois programs and ND kept away from the Michigans and Indiana public schools.

Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Northwestern
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
Notre Dame, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia

Texas Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M
Mississippi, Mississippi State, Louisiana State, Alabama, Auburn
Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, Georgia Tech, Tennessee
Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina, Kentucky, Virginia Tech

In the past when a group got too big to manage, it divided, stronger entities were formed and the lesser programs were left with the original structure and then faded away. Such was the case with the old Southern Conference and would be with any number of teams over 16.....heck that number might actually be 14, which is why school Presidents are reluctant to expand.

Perhaps the key would be to start with a playoff number (say 8 teams) and work on forming conferences of 8 or so teams rather than 16, 18, 20 or 24.
Each champion would enter the tournament. Seven game round robin conference schedules would leave plenty of room for OOC rivalries without overloading the schedule.

If 8 were not feasible in some markets, the number of schools per conference could actually go as high as 10/11 as long as the conference was willing to give up scheduling flexibility. (The PAC could actually stay in tact as an 11 team conference if necessary, but in doing so making it more difficult for any individual school to become champion and participating in the playoff).

Smaller compact conferences would be easier for fans and schools because they would be more regional and better for the media giants that paid the bills as the conferences would have less power and therefore easier to control.

When money didn't keep them together, that was true.

But obviously no one is moving backwards to 8 team leagues or the like. The natural progression is consolidation of money and power...for better or for worse.

When leagues get too big, they break up. As the Pac's predecessor, the MVC, the Southern Conference (when they lost the SEC schools and when they lost the ACC schools), the Big East, the MWC. In fact, only the Big 10 among the P5 isn't a product of a breakup.
01-13-2021 08:18 PM
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Post: #471
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-12-2021 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-11-2021 06:34 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I would prefer Texas and Oklahoma be in the same conference together and the Red River Rivalry remain a conference game. You can say they'd never cancel the game even if they weren't in the same conference but if I said in 2010 that Texas and Texas A&M would no longer play would you have believed me? What's stopping Texas from blackballing Oklahoma the way they blackballed A&M, especially if Oklahoma leaves the Big 12 before UT? Who needs Oklahoma/Texas more? The only way to guarantee they play is for them to play in the same conference.

I know it would be better financially for the Big 10 if OU/UT were in the B1G but geographically they fit better in the SEC and if they were there then Texas and Texas A&M would play again.

Texas may have blackballed A&M in the early days, but they've regretted it. You can tell they are the more eager to renew that series because their home schedule has suffered without it. A&M, for their part, no longer needs that game so they've decided to stick it to UT, it appears.

One day they will play again, maybe in the SEC at that, but I doubt Texas makes the same mistake twice.

If Oklahoma moved to the SEC then ironically, Texas would still need that game more. OU would have a nice complement of home games every year. Texas is the bigger money maker, but you can't make a habit of pissing off everyone you do business with. Eventually, it catches up with you.

Nobody at UT thinks about A&M.
The schools do play in other sports where it is convenient.
01-13-2021 08:21 PM
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RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 07:03 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


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I assume you are talking about AllTideUP's plan. Tech is only profitable to the SEC if they are paired with Texas and then they diminish the overall profit that Texas adds, but it is workable. Kansas adds value to one of our deficit areas and are AAU and if paired with Oklahoma the tandem would still add profit, just not as much as Oklahoma alone, but it has some other advantages. One of those is it restores the rivalry for Missouri in addition to upgrading the SEC's hoop profile and providing a natural rival for Kentucky most years.

Obviously the ideal is Texas and Oklahoma as that would add over 4.5 million per school in payouts to the SEC's members. But UT/TTU or OU/KU would likely add about 2.5 million per school. But that's how you can even talk about it. On their own they don't get a look.
01-13-2021 08:23 PM
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RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
As for out of conference, you have been drinking aggy koolaid.
Some of the future Texas opponents:
2021 Arkansas
2022 Alabama
2023 Alabama
2024 Michigan
2025 Ohio St.
2026 Ohio St.
2027 Michigan
2028 Georgia
2029 Georgia
2030 Florida
2031 Florida
2032 Arizona St.
2033 Arizona St.
01-13-2021 08:25 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #474
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 08:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:25 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 05:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:17 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(01-11-2021 04:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Kansas moved to the Big Ten then it does make sense for Texas and Texas Tech to move to the SEC together.

I also think it makes sense for ESPN to grab a school like TCU and put them in the ACC if Notre Dame is willing to join in football. The ACC would probably snub West Virginia and they wouldn't be valuable to anyone else.

However...let us consider what Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12 could cause as far as a ripple effect.

Texas and Texas Tech would have a safe home in the SEC. Oklahoma and Kansas would fit pretty well with the Big Ten. But this sort of maneuver would still put a lot of pressure on Notre Dame and the ACC as a whole to some degree.

ESPN controls the destiny of the ACC, but they also want Big Ten rights. The package from the Big Ten is coming open about the same time the Big 12 GOR ends. That's strategic, of course, but we should also consider FOX's diminished position. They will still want content, but they've given up on pursuing certain properties. They've reduced their own platform and they've sold off the very studios that would have made a streaming service viable.

The ACC is in an inferior economic position without question and if both the SEC and Big Ten get another raise with significant powers coming on board then the leaders of the ACC will have to consider giving up the ghost. They have no means of making up the gap as things stand now and the addition of Notre Dame in football is only going to do so much. That's compounded by the length of the ACC contract.

So let's consider that one of the reasons that ESPN made the ACC sign such a long term deal is to have leverage over them. At this stage, ESPN could make those schools do just about anything because there's no help coming otherwise.

The ACC powers will desperately want an outlet. ESPN will be happy to give them one provided they do exactly what ESPN wants.

If you moved Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Virginia Tech to the SEC then you have a very solid 20.

If you moved Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke to the Big Ten then you have another very solid 20.

FWIW, I played with a divisional split of the two groups. I had a very hard time coming up with any reasonable scenario that splits the Alabamian programs, as that split complicated many other areas. Therefore, I had to keep the two together, then pair LSU with them. Georgia and Georgia Tech together is a no-brainer, especially when you also can pair GT with Vanderbilt and Tennessee. Putting all the former B8 and SWC programs together is also another obvious idea. None of the original SEC members would end up in a division with former SWC and B8 programs, which is about as fair as I could come up with.

On the Big Ten, I had connect the plains programs with one of the recruiting areas, so I paired Northwestern with Nebraska and Oklahoma. The Illini is paired with the upper lakes programs. Each division is to have at least two historical programs but that proved to be nearly impossible: separating the Michigans and Wisconsin/Minnesota make no sense, so I had to put the two pairs together, thus necessarily split Michigan and Ohio State. Therefore, not only did I split Michigan/Ohio State but also the Illinois programs and ND kept away from the Michigans and Indiana public schools.

Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Northwestern
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
Notre Dame, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia

Texas Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M
Mississippi, Mississippi State, Louisiana State, Alabama, Auburn
Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, Georgia Tech, Tennessee
Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina, Kentucky, Virginia Tech

In the past when a group got too big to manage, it divided, stronger entities were formed and the lesser programs were left with the original structure and then faded away. Such was the case with the old Southern Conference and would be with any number of teams over 16.....heck that number might actually be 14, which is why school Presidents are reluctant to expand.

Perhaps the key would be to start with a playoff number (say 8 teams) and work on forming conferences of 8 or so teams rather than 16, 18, 20 or 24.
Each champion would enter the tournament. Seven game round robin conference schedules would leave plenty of room for OOC rivalries without overloading the schedule.

If 8 were not feasible in some markets, the number of schools per conference could actually go as high as 10/11 as long as the conference was willing to give up scheduling flexibility. (The PAC could actually stay in tact as an 11 team conference if necessary, but in doing so making it more difficult for any individual school to become champion and participating in the playoff).

Smaller compact conferences would be easier for fans and schools because they would be more regional and better for the media giants that paid the bills as the conferences would have less power and therefore easier to control.

When money didn't keep them together, that was true.

But obviously no one is moving backwards to 8 team leagues or the like. The natural progression is consolidation of money and power...for better or for worse.

When leagues get too big, they break up. As the Pac's predecessor, the MVC, the Southern Conference (when they lost the SEC schools and when they lost the ACC schools), the Big East, the MWC. In fact, only the Big 10 among the P5 isn't a product of a breakup.

A hundred years ago, absolutely.

How many of those leagues had a monetary reason to stay aligned? How many of those leagues were generating billions of dollars in media revenue?

Even the most recent addition to that list, the Mountain West, broke away in order to re-emphasize the original members of the WAC. Nobody was paying that league a ton of money to operate at 16. They had no motivation to endure structural issues.

Even in the case of the MWC, what happened? A handful of teams ascended to the upper echelon and most of those schools are right back in the same conference.
01-14-2021 04:29 AM
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Post: #475
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  As for out of conference, you have been drinking aggy koolaid.
Some of the future Texas opponents:
2021 Arkansas
2022 Alabama
2023 Alabama
2024 Michigan
2025 Ohio St.
2026 Ohio St.
2027 Michigan
2028 Georgia
2029 Georgia
2030 Florida
2031 Florida
2032 Arizona St.
2033 Arizona St.

I don't really get what your point is.

How many quality games does Texas have in Austin? I'm talking about rivalry games that the fans really show up for? Or games against perennial powers that might not inspire acrimony, but they certainly get the fans fired up? The non-conference games are great, but you can't play a ton of them every single year.

The Oklahoma game is in Dallas where it should be, but the Austin slate is not what they were used to for several years.

When Del Conte was interviewed last year, he certainly seemed to be the more eager to play A&M again. I can understand why because every team coming through Austin...and I'm talking about the conference slate here, the games that make up the bulk of the home schedule...is considered a middle or lower tier brand.

Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia

How many of those games fire up the average Texas fan?
01-14-2021 04:36 AM
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Post: #476
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-13-2021 08:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:03 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


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I assume you are talking about AllTideUP's plan. Tech is only profitable to the SEC if they are paired with Texas and then they diminish the overall profit that Texas adds, but it is workable. Kansas adds value to one of our deficit areas and are AAU and if paired with Oklahoma the tandem would still add profit, just not as much as Oklahoma alone, but it has some other advantages. One of those is it restores the rivalry for Missouri in addition to upgrading the SEC's hoop profile and providing a natural rival for Kentucky most years.

Obviously the ideal is Texas and Oklahoma as that would add over 4.5 million per school in payouts to the SEC's members. But UT/TTU or OU/KU would likely add about 2.5 million per school. But that's how you can even talk about it. On their own they don't get a look.

Oklahoma seems to be the linchpin. They have the most motivation to move. If they do then Texas might follow.

But as for the other schools, if we move to a 10 game conference schedule then we could add a few extra schools and I think it would alter the economics a little bit.

20 teams playing 10 games would be 100 conference football games. Everything is under the same roof.

16 teams playing 8 games would be 64. If you move to 9 games then it's 72. Take those teams and go to 10 and it's 80.

Not every game is equally valuable obviously, but seems like we have a lot to gain in terms of inventory even if we added a small number of lesser brands.
01-14-2021 04:47 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #477
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-14-2021 04:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 08:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:03 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


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I assume you are talking about AllTideUP's plan. Tech is only profitable to the SEC if they are paired with Texas and then they diminish the overall profit that Texas adds, but it is workable. Kansas adds value to one of our deficit areas and are AAU and if paired with Oklahoma the tandem would still add profit, just not as much as Oklahoma alone, but it has some other advantages. One of those is it restores the rivalry for Missouri in addition to upgrading the SEC's hoop profile and providing a natural rival for Kentucky most years.

Obviously the ideal is Texas and Oklahoma as that would add over 4.5 million per school in payouts to the SEC's members. But UT/TTU or OU/KU would likely add about 2.5 million per school. But that's how you can even talk about it. On their own they don't get a look.

Oklahoma seems to be the linchpin. They have the most motivation to move. If they do then Texas might follow.

But as for the other schools, if we move to a 10 game conference schedule then we could add a few extra schools and I think it would alter the economics a little bit.

20 teams playing 10 games would be 100 conference football games. Everything is under the same roof.

16 teams playing 8 games would be 64. If you move to 9 games then it's 72. Take those teams and go to 10 and it's 80.

Not every game is equally valuable obviously, but seems like we have a lot to gain in terms of inventory even if we added a small number of lesser brands.

Then the question becomes: does Oklahoma give up rivalries for money? The only SEC schools that Oklahoma has any history with are Missouri and to a much lesser extent, Texas A&M.
Oklahoma has a somewhat unique problem re: rivalry games. The Sooners have been so dominant in their own conference that they have seldom been challenged by any of their traditional rivals. They have a 90-18-7 record against Oklahoma State and their closest challenger, Nebraska (45-38-3) ran off to the B1G.
If Oklahoma takes the SEC's money the chance of continuing their gaudy won-loss record sinks like a stone.
01-14-2021 05:44 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #478
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
Divide 'em up where they actually make sense:


Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Rutgers, Pitt, Notre Dame, Michigan, Michigan State
Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa

Maryland, West Virginia, Kentucky, Louisville, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Miami
UVa, Virginia Tech, Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, NCSU, Clemson, South Carolina

Florida, FSU, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, MSU, LSU
Oklahoma, OSU, Texas, A&M, Baylor, TCU, TT, Arkansas,

Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, KSU, Colorado
Utah, BYU, Arizona State, Arizona, USC, UCLA
Cal, Stanford, Oregon, OSU, Washington, WSU
01-14-2021 06:38 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #479
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-14-2021 05:44 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 04:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 08:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 07:03 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Those schools have been in the SEC for years ....I cant imagine paying Kansas or Texas Tech the same as Alabama


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I assume you are talking about AllTideUP's plan. Tech is only profitable to the SEC if they are paired with Texas and then they diminish the overall profit that Texas adds, but it is workable. Kansas adds value to one of our deficit areas and are AAU and if paired with Oklahoma the tandem would still add profit, just not as much as Oklahoma alone, but it has some other advantages. One of those is it restores the rivalry for Missouri in addition to upgrading the SEC's hoop profile and providing a natural rival for Kentucky most years.

Obviously the ideal is Texas and Oklahoma as that would add over 4.5 million per school in payouts to the SEC's members. But UT/TTU or OU/KU would likely add about 2.5 million per school. But that's how you can even talk about it. On their own they don't get a look.

Oklahoma seems to be the linchpin. They have the most motivation to move. If they do then Texas might follow.

But as for the other schools, if we move to a 10 game conference schedule then we could add a few extra schools and I think it would alter the economics a little bit.

20 teams playing 10 games would be 100 conference football games. Everything is under the same roof.

16 teams playing 8 games would be 64. If you move to 9 games then it's 72. Take those teams and go to 10 and it's 80.

Not every game is equally valuable obviously, but seems like we have a lot to gain in terms of inventory even if we added a small number of lesser brands.

Then the question becomes: does Oklahoma give up rivalries for money? The only SEC schools that Oklahoma has any history with are Missouri and to a much lesser extent, Texas A&M.
Oklahoma has a somewhat unique problem re: rivalry games. The Sooners have been so dominant in their own conference that they have seldom been challenged by any of their traditional rivals. They have a 90-18-7 record against Oklahoma State and their closest challenger, Nebraska (45-38-3) ran off to the B1G.
If Oklahoma takes the SEC's money the chance of continuing their gaudy won-loss record sinks like a stone.

What rivalries would Oklahoma give up if they left the Big 12? Oklahoma only has two significant rivalries in the conference I'm aware of, Texas and Oklahoma State, and the assumption is if they went to the SEC at least one of them would come along (possibly both if the SEC went to 18 teams). If Oklahoma said yes to the SEC and Texas said no, everyone tells me Oklahoma and Texas would still play so I would assume Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would go to the SEC and Oklahoma would still play Ok State and UT every year. Would Okie miss playing Kansas and Kansas State? Oklahoma fans on CSNBBS can tell me. I can't imagine they'll miss playing West Virginia. If the SEC took OU and UT, it's possible Oklahoma and Oklahoma State no longer play (like Texas and Texas A&M) but that's to OU's benefit. Oklahoma State would be completely irrelevant if they did. At least Penn State has the opportunity to play Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh. Oklahoma gains absolutely nothing playing in Stillwater (unless there's more people living in Stillwater than I think there are).
01-14-2021 06:39 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #480
RE: A Sober Look at the Potential Realignment of 2024
(01-14-2021 04:36 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  As for out of conference, you have been drinking aggy koolaid.
Some of the future Texas opponents:
2021 Arkansas
2022 Alabama
2023 Alabama
2024 Michigan
2025 Ohio St.
2026 Ohio St.
2027 Michigan
2028 Georgia
2029 Georgia
2030 Florida
2031 Florida
2032 Arizona St.
2033 Arizona St.

I don't really get what your point is.

How many quality games does Texas have in Austin? I'm talking about rivalry games that the fans really show up for? Or games against perennial powers that might not inspire acrimony, but they certainly get the fans fired up? The non-conference games are great, but you can't play a ton of them every single year.

The Oklahoma game is in Dallas where it should be, but the Austin slate is not what they were used to for several years.

When Del Conte was interviewed last year, he certainly seemed to be the more eager to play A&M again. I can understand why because every team coming through Austin...and I'm talking about the conference slate here, the games that make up the bulk of the home schedule...is considered a middle or lower tier brand.

Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia

How many of those games fire up the average Texas fan?

And this is exactly why Texas needs to be in a better conference and the networks need to push for it. Tell Texas they'll be paid a lot more if they join a better conference and they won't be getting a lot if they stay with a bunch of "middle or lower tier brand"s.
01-14-2021 06:41 AM
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