IF WAC goes back to the FBS level would UTEP and UNM join the WAC? I'm wondering b/c of how UTEP is an outlierin CUSA and both UNM and NMSU are feeling the Covid budget crunch and having this trio together with schools in TX and Utah I think they would all benefit more than their current situations.

Not going to happen. Both UNM and UTEP have gone to great lengths to keep NMSU out of the same conferences as they resided. UNM wants to be the flag ship of New Mexico; always being in a better conference than NMSU. And, UTEP went as far as leaving the WAC for CUSA when the WAC still had Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada, Louisiana Tech, Hawaii, Utah State, San Jose State in order to not be in the same conference as the newly added Aggies. They missed being in the same conference (the WAC) by one year.

(12-19-2020 10:52 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Not going to happen. Both UNM and UTEP have gone to great lengths to keep NMSU out of the same conferences as they resided. UNM wants to be the flag ship of New Mexico; always being in a better conference than NMSU. And, UTEP went as far as leaving the WAC for CUSA when the WAC still had Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada, Louisiana Tech, Hawaii, Utah State, San Jose State in order to not be in the same conference as the newly added Aggies. They missed being in the same conference (the WAC) by one year.

That is not true. UTEP left the WAC for CUSA to be with Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulsa; not to get away from NMSU. That is 100% Aggie folklore.

It will never happen. Plus the MWC is way, way ahead of the WAC in football. It would a huge step down to join the WAC.

MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

(12-19-2020 03:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

If what many of us suspect is underway, the WAC is preparing for the split of the P5 and G5. In that scenario, the WAC will be positioned to join the G5 in a new division, playing their former FBS status as a bargaining chip. WAC will still be considered less desirable than the MWC and CUSA, making little incentive for UNM or UTEP to move to the WAC. The exception might be if there is a coordinated effort to create geographically compact conferences. BUT, that is a lot of IFs.

(12-19-2020 03:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

If what many of us suspect is underway, the WAC is preparing for the split of the P5 and G5. In that scenario, the WAC will be positioned to join the G5 in a new division, playing their former FBS status as a bargaining chip. WAC will still be considered less desirable than the MWC and CUSA, making little incentive for UNM or UTEP to move to the WAC. The exception might be if there is a coordinated effort to create geographically compact conferences. BUT, that is a lot of IFs.

The G5 football programs are way ahead of all WAC schools, except for maybe NMSU. Tarleton and Dixie haven’t even played a FCS game yet! They’re not ready to compete with Cincinnati and UCF yet. Are you kidding me?

(12-19-2020 10:33 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  IF WAC goes back to the FBS level would UTEP and UNM join the WAC? I'm wondering b/c of how UTEP is an outlierin CUSA and both UNM and NMSU are feeling the Covid budget crunch and having this trio together with schools in TX and Utah I think they would all benefit more than their current situations.

If you were to redraw conferences, UNM/NMSU/UTEP with a bunch of Texas schools + Tulsa would make a lot of sense.

But UNM has 50+ years of wanting to orientate itself with Colorado St, Wyoming, UNLV, San Diego St, etc. Never mind wanting to be “above” NMSU/UTEP. So there’s no scenario where you see UNM joining today’s WAC.

UTEP is possible, but it would take the CUSA/SBELT TX schools wanting to join forces with the WAC FB schools in FBS.

ACU
UNT
Texas St
Rice
Lamar
SFA
SHSU
UTSA
UTEP
NMSU

(12-19-2020 05:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

If what many of us suspect is underway, the WAC is preparing for the split of the P5 and G5. In that scenario, the WAC will be positioned to join the G5 in a new division, playing their former FBS status as a bargaining chip. WAC will still be considered less desirable than the MWC and CUSA, making little incentive for UNM or UTEP to move to the WAC. The exception might be if there is a coordinated effort to create geographically compact conferences. BUT, that is a lot of IFs.

The G5 football programs are way ahead of all WAC schools, except for maybe NMSU. Tarleton and Dixie haven’t even played a FCS game yet! They’re not ready to compete with Cincinnati and UCF yet. Are you kidding me?

Neither is UTEP. Top G5 programs are indeed way ahead of all WAC schools without exception. Lower level G5 schools not so much.

Simply put, UTEP isn’t Cincinnati. UTEP did manage to edge both Stephen F Austin and ACU this fall but both games were decided in the last 5 minutes.

If UTEP were in a league with current WAC schools they would struggle to finish third or fourth. Sam Houston would dominate.

(12-19-2020 09:08 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 05:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

If what many of us suspect is underway, the WAC is preparing for the split of the P5 and G5. In that scenario, the WAC will be positioned to join the G5 in a new division, playing their former FBS status as a bargaining chip. WAC will still be considered less desirable than the MWC and CUSA, making little incentive for UNM or UTEP to move to the WAC. The exception might be if there is a coordinated effort to create geographically compact conferences. BUT, that is a lot of IFs.

The G5 football programs are way ahead of all WAC schools, except for maybe NMSU. Tarleton and Dixie haven’t even played a FCS game yet! They’re not ready to compete with Cincinnati and UCF yet. Are you kidding me?

Neither is UTEP. Top G5 programs are indeed way ahead of all WAC schools without exception. Lower level G5 schools not so much.

Simply put, UTEP isn’t Cincinnati. UTEP did manage to edge both Stephen F Austin and ACU this fall but both games were decided in the last 5 minutes.

If UTEP were in a league with current WAC schools they would struggle to finish third or fourth. Sam Houston would dominate.

UTEP is a lot closer than any WAC FCS team. They have a 50k seat stadium and a full allotment of scholarships. They might be one of the worst, but they would beat all Southland teams on a regular basis. Wouldn’t win them all, but they would win most.

(12-19-2020 09:48 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 09:08 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 05:01 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:51 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 03:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  MWC and CUSA might be light years ahead of the WAC but UNM isn't FBS level quality nor is UTEP

If what many of us suspect is underway, the WAC is preparing for the split of the P5 and G5. In that scenario, the WAC will be positioned to join the G5 in a new division, playing their former FBS status as a bargaining chip. WAC will still be considered less desirable than the MWC and CUSA, making little incentive for UNM or UTEP to move to the WAC. The exception might be if there is a coordinated effort to create geographically compact conferences. BUT, that is a lot of IFs.

The G5 football programs are way ahead of all WAC schools, except for maybe NMSU. Tarleton and Dixie haven’t even played a FCS game yet! They’re not ready to compete with Cincinnati and UCF yet. Are you kidding me?

Neither is UTEP. Top G5 programs are indeed way ahead of all WAC schools without exception. Lower level G5 schools not so much.

Simply put, UTEP isn’t Cincinnati. UTEP did manage to edge both Stephen F Austin and ACU this fall but both games were decided in the last 5 minutes.

If UTEP were in a league with current WAC schools they would struggle to finish third or fourth. Sam Houston would dominate.

UTEP is a lot closer than any WAC FCS team. They have a 50k seat stadium and a full allotment of scholarships. They might be one of the worst, but they would beat all Southland teams on a regular basis. Wouldn’t win them all, but they would win most.

I’m not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. UTEP hasn’t done well against FCS teams in recent years. They barely beat a hapless Houston Baptist team, were blown out by a slightly above average Northern Arizona squad, and escaped with narrow wins this year over two below average new to the WAC teams. Sam Houston is better than any of these teams most years and would easily beat UTEP year in year out.

Sure, UTEP would probably beat ACU and SFA as FCS teams. Give these two schools the extra 20 plus scholarships they would need to play in a WAC FBS conference and the result would be very different.

UTEp’s wins this year against these teams relied on wearing down the opposition with superior numbers and pulling out a win late in fourth quarter With an equal number of scholarship athletes that wouldn’t happen.

UTEP doesn’t play in a 13k seat stadium and is already a FBS team. Of course they’re above SHSU at everything. They might not be good, but they’re “closer” to competing with the Top of G5 than Sam Houston State is, don’t be ridiculous.

(12-20-2020 10:02 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  UTEP doesn’t play in a 13k seat stadium and is already a FBS team. Of course they’re above SHSU at everything. They might not be good, but they’re “closer” to competing with the Top of G5 than Sam Houston State is, don’t be ridiculous.

We seem to be talking about two separate issues- facilities and performance.

UTEP has a great football stadium owing to its relationship to the Sun Bowl. It’s much nicer and considerably larger than Sam Houston’s stadium.
You are right. It would be ridiculous to compare the two.

UTEP’s athletic budget is also much closer to better G5 teams than Sam Houston’s. Again, it would be ridiculous to compare the two.

However, when you look at performance, Sam Houston has done a lot more with its meager resources than has UTEP. I’ll stand by my statement that SHSU would beat UTEP most years in football and hold up better against top tier G5 teams than would UTEP.

(12-20-2020 10:50 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(12-20-2020 10:02 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  UTEP doesn’t play in a 13k seat stadium and is already a FBS team. Of course they’re above SHSU at everything. They might not be good, but they’re “closer” to competing with the Top of G5 than Sam Houston State is, don’t be ridiculous.

We seem to be talking about two separate issues- facilities and performance.

UTEP has a great football stadium owing to its relationship to the Sun Bowl. It’s much nicer and considerably larger than Sam Houston’s stadium.
You are right. It would be ridiculous to compare the two.

UTEP’s athletic budget is also much closer to better G5 teams than Sam Houston’s. Again, it would be ridiculous to compare the two.

However, when you look at performance, Sam Houston has done a lot more with its meager resources than has UTEP. I’ll stand by my statement that SHSU would beat UTEP most years in football and hold up better against top tier G5 teams than would UTEP.

That’s your opinion and I am not talking about performance between the two teams. The WAC football teams are not ready to be in FBS. Maybe in 10 years, it’s definitely not soon.

(12-19-2020 08:42 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-19-2020 10:33 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  IF WAC goes back to the FBS level would UTEP and UNM join the WAC? I'm wondering b/c of how UTEP is an outlierin CUSA and both UNM and NMSU are feeling the Covid budget crunch and having this trio together with schools in TX and Utah I think they would all benefit more than their current situations.

If you were to redraw conferences, UNM/NMSU/UTEP with a bunch of Texas schools + Tulsa would make a lot of sense.

But UNM has 50+ years of wanting to orientate itself with Colorado St, Wyoming, UNLV, San Diego St, etc. Never mind wanting to be “above” NMSU/UTEP. So there’s no scenario where you see UNM joining today’s WAC.

UTEP is possible, but it would take the CUSA/SBELT TX schools wanting to join forces with the WAC FB schools in FBS.

ACU
UNT
Texas St
Rice
Lamar
SFA
SHSU
UTSA
UTEP
NMSU

Why would the WAC teams want this? I thought the whole point of them joining was to get out of Texas more.

The FBS schools would definitely not want anything to do with this.

Utep and UNMs administration think they are superior to NMSU. Generally speaking the fan bases appreciate the rivalry. Its almost always one of if not the top crowd for all sports when we play each other. However, during the pandemic we can see the administrations of the two schools attitude toward the rivalry by not scheduling us. They will do whatever it takes not to put themselves in their eyes at the same level as NMSU even though the basketball series has been completely dominated by NMSU and the UNM/NMSU series in both football and basketball has been even the last ten years. To demonstrate how delusion UNMs admin is they applied for the Big 12 and one of the reasons they gave was their football jumbotron is awesome. Laughable stuff. They don't add they are suing their last two sponsors and that they run a deficit in the athletics department budget every single year. The final answer to your question 87. None. If it makes to much sense UNM and Uteps admin is too stupid to do it.
https://d3el53au0d7w62.cloudfront.net/wp...22-1-1.pdf

What would make the most sense is to adopt the model used by European soccer....reshuffle schools periodically based on performance over several years. The worst performers from P5 conferences drop down to G5 and the best G5’s move up. G5 schools with the worst records move down, replaced by the best FCS has to offer.

Goodbye Vanderbilt or Kansas, hello Boise State and Cincinnati. Goodbye UTEP and UMAss, hello North Dakota State and James Madison. And so forth.

It will never happen though. Because pride.

(12-21-2020 11:52 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  What would make the most sense is to adopt the model used by European soccer....reshuffle schools periodically based on performance over several years. The worst performers from P5 conferences drop down to G5 and the best G5’s move up. G5 schools with the worst records move down, replaced by the best FCS has to offer.

Goodbye Vanderbilt or Kansas, hello Boise State and Cincinnati. Goodbye UTEP and UMAss, hello North Dakota State and James Madison. And so forth.

It will never happen though. Because pride.

With the conference structure and each school having multiple sports the relegation model does not work. If only one sport was involved, then it could make sense.