Moving the C-USA schools to the WAC to reform an FBS conference because it is already an established conference. It would be hard to start a new conference from scratch with these rules right now.

Dang guys, after a decade of these rumors I'm starting to wonder when this will happen.

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

For any “new” conference, these 9 schools (or any 9 schools) would need to pay an exit fee and then forego the college football playoff money and safety of the basketball autobid for the uncertainty of this alignment. These 9 (or many other combinations) leave C-USA with 9 members and the Sunbelt with 7 football schools. Both leagues might backfill with more FCS schools looking to move up to FBS.

And the G6 is born. Would the existing G5 conferences be willing to share the CFP dollars with a new conference?

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

Thats kinda the idea I was thinking would be very attractive to LaTech, S Miss, and UAB. I could see a couple of outliers being included simply because they are hard to leave out from a quality stand point. For instance, you could even include AppSt and Marshall---that pair offers nice quality and work as travel partners when you go there. Its possible those schools would rather be in the high quality core youve put together rather than being forced to make the best of whatever is left over on the east coast.

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

why would Louisiana stop using its branding to make tech happy. Louisiana has gotten the major players in college sports to agree with the branding. Just because older fans and in state schools dont want to agree does not matter.

(11-17-2020 01:27 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  Dang guys, after a decade of these rumors I'm starting to wonder when this will happen.

Tuesday

tHe WoRLd iS oUrS!

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

I could definitely see that happening, except FIU instead of FAU. I think FAU has more in common with the eastern schools.

(11-17-2020 03:48 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

why would Louisiana stop using its branding to make tech happy. Louisiana has gotten the major players in college sports to agree with the branding. Just because older fans and in state schools dont want to agree does not matter.

I didn't say or imply that they would. That's just one of the many reasons this would never happen. The reality is that CUSA's exit fees are so high that none of its members can afford to leave, and their revenues and future prospects so weak that no new schools would want to join. And even if they did, CUSA couldn't afford to invite them because it would reduce every member's share if they did.

So, just like P5 realignment is highly unlikely, so is G5 realignment, and for many of the same reasons (though on a somewhat smaller scale). But since this is a Realignment Board, we at least have to pretend some is possible or we'd have nothing to talk about.

(11-17-2020 07:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 03:48 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

why would Louisiana stop using its branding to make tech happy. Louisiana has gotten the major players in college sports to agree with the branding. Just because older fans and in state schools dont want to agree does not matter.

I didn't say or imply that they would. That's just one of the many reasons this would never happen. The reality is that CUSA's exit fees are so high that none of its members can afford to leave, and their revenues and future prospects so weak that no new schools would want to join. And even if they did, CUSA couldn't afford to invite them because it would reduce every member's share if they did.

So, just like P5 realignment is highly unlikely, so is G5 realignment, and for many of the same reasons (though on a somewhat smaller scale). But since this is a Realignment Board, we at least have to pretend some is possible or we'd have nothing to talk about.

I think the heart of that idea is fine and different from other ideas, which is what this board is about. a league more central based and then expanded out has value. But you are giving la tech too much power in your version. tech dont like Louisiana's branding, but could not stop a realignment because of it, if everyone else in the group wanted to realign la tech would agree to keep from being left out and deal with the Louisiana branding similar to how ulm has.

I will also add to your original list: GSU is a good add.

FAU
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas
Georgia State

(11-17-2020 02:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 01:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly, the three teams I could see examining a break away are never at the center of any league people propose. I could easily see Southern Miss, UAB, and LaTech acting in concert to create a more compact league with the triangle formed by those 3 schools as its geographic center. Id be curious what such a league might look like. In other words, instead of those teams forming the western or eastern edge of of a more compact western or eastern conference---the league would be actually centered on LaTech, S Miss, and UAB.

One version of that I had toyed with was:

FAU
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
Rice
North Texas

But to get LaTech to agree, ULL would probably have to agree to stop calling itself "Louisiana".

Thats kinda the idea I was thinking would be very attractive to LaTech, S Miss, and UAB. I could see a couple of outliers being included simply because they are hard to leave out from a quality stand point. For instance, you could even include AppSt and Marshall---that pair offers nice quality and work as travel partners when you go there. Its possible those schools would rather be in the high quality core youve put together rather than being forced to make the best of whatever is left over on the east coast.

S. Miss, LT, UAB, MT, WK, Rice, N. Tex & Arkansas St.

I strongly suspect any split will be resource based, since a big problem with CUSA is a number of schools are operating on a much smaller budget and some with very small student populations that makes them struggle to compete, although they have historical legacy (i.e., USM, LTU -- USM cancelling before covid all those home games converting them to revenue game is directly related to this issue). UTEP has the resources, but has not been lighting anything up, and are an outlier geographically. The Florida schools are shoe string budget and have no fan base (well FIU soccer). Eliminating these five already gets you down to 9 schools.

Looking at it from the other end, 6 schools are in the upper half of the conference in both football and basketball resources: UTEP, North Texas, Rice, UAB, ODU, Middle Tennessee. Marshall and Charlotte are lower middle in Football, with Marshall in the upper group in Basketball, Charlotte again lower middle. UTSA is upper budget in football, as is FIU, but also like FIU are bottom in Basketball and other Olympic Sports -- both are behind San Jose State in all sports to put their budgets in perspective. UTSA had a big splash when they started but their support fell off to much lower levels after the first two years, and we see their true level is not very high. WKU is the opposite, with very shoe string football but high end Basketball and other sports budgets. Of these schools Marshall would be the best

So working the top down
(UTEP ... I presume out due to geography)
1 Rice
2 North Texas
3 Old Dominion
4 UAB
5 Middle Tennessee
6 Marshall

That is your resource based break away. You need one more, so you can choose between Charlotte and WKU or both even.

Liberty and James Madison, fit in the resource levels nicely, but not at the top, just lower half. Louisiana comes top of the SBC for resources. App State however has a good fan base and Georgia State potential (but I'm skeptical of urban commuter start ups like UTSA and UNCC, which have not shown much). Texas State is also middling. Georgia Southern also has a decent following but are again a small school on a small budget like USM and LTU, and that raises questions about the ability to develop long term as the other schools grow their budgets.

Mind you none of these budgets are huge, but there is a considerable difference between the top group with $10-13m football budgets and $2.8-4.0m basketball budgets against the bottom schools with $6-8m Football budgets and $1.6-2.3m basketball budgets. The middle schools are between these extremes. Men's Basketball budgets give you an idea of the depth pf support for Olympic sports (exception being FIU soccer).

My 10 would thus be:

North Texas
Rice
Louisiana Lafaytette (SBC -- needed also to fill the western side geographic hole)
Alabama-Birmingham
Middle Tennessee
Marshall
Old Dominion
James Madison (FCS move up from CAA)
Liberty (Independent and ASUN)

Western Kentucky or Charlotte (need a 7th CUSA and a 10th school)

Appalachian State would be my fall back if James Madison wont move up, or failing that both WKU and Charlotte. This also gives me an option if Liberty is not accepted by the Presidents.

The league is still the whole of the South, but losing El Paso and Miami trims the edges. You also remove the schools with lower resource, which is important long run as you push to ramp up budgets another 25-30% to be more competitive with AAC schools.

I really don't see the point in a strictly regional reshuffle as it does not attempt to address the program power and growth issues. You can achieve better travel by sticking to almost division only scheduling.

A resource based break away would leave CUSA with 6 or 7 schools (could be 7 initially, much like the MWC waited a year to add TCU so as not to risk legal issues of the majority leaving ... WKU or Charlotte could be the "wait a year" school), and takes only 1 or 2 from the SBC, not threatening them. The question is, will the remnant raid the SBC or will the SBC raid the remnant; that would happen, but which way?

This isn't a popular take, but I think it's closer to reality. But these days it require a TV package in place (think new Big East) to make it worth the risk. I don't see that, so likely just griping continues.

Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

(11-20-2020 06:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

Thank you.

If the WAC invites all the Western schools everybody would be happy. That would put them at 6 members, plus Tx St makes 7. NMSU is already WAC, just add Arkansas State and ULL and you’re at 10.

OR...........Asun invites all the Eastern schools. Either way works.

Better for WKU if it’s the Asun route since it allows WKU to play in Louisville in the 18k seat Freedom Hall every season (Bellarmine)

(11-20-2020 06:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

That vastly INCREASES travel for Texas schools. I doubt the Texas schools would have any interest in the widely spread out WAC. If the Texas schools are left behind on a Texas island, there is no reason for them to go all the way to the WAC to get FCS level schools when plenty of FCS or better expansion options exist in much closer proximity. The 4 Texas schools could look at FBS schools left behind in any CUSA/SB reorganization as well as Texas/Louisiana/Ark/Alabama FCS schools that might make sense. Either of those options would be better for Texas schools than a desperate bid to join the WAC. When it comes to the WAC, there's simply nothing in it for the Texas schools.

(11-20-2020 07:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-20-2020 06:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

That vastly INCREASES travel for Texas schools. I doubt the Texas schools would have any interest in the widely spread out WAC. If the Texas schools are left behind on a Texas island, there is no reason for them to go all the way to the WAC to get FCS level schools when plenty of FCS or better expansion options exist in much closer proximity. The 4 Texas schools could look at FBS schools left behind in any CUSA/SB reorganization as well as Texas/Louisiana/Ark/Alabama FCS schools that might make sense. Either of those options would be better for Texas schools than a desperate bid to join the WAC. When it comes to the WAC, there's simply nothing in it for the Texas schools.

Why not use the WAC? There’s literally only 1 other FBS team over there. They could easily put a very nice Gulf-centric conference together.

NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Rice
UNT
TXST
ULL
ULM
LaTech (even though I would HATE to lose Tech)

(11-20-2020 07:58 PM)BKTopper Wrote:  

(11-20-2020 07:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-20-2020 06:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

That vastly INCREASES travel for Texas schools. I doubt the Texas schools would have any interest in the widely spread out WAC. If the Texas schools are left behind on a Texas island, there is no reason for them to go all the way to the WAC to get FCS level schools when plenty of FCS or better expansion options exist in much closer proximity. The 4 Texas schools could look at FBS schools left behind in any CUSA/SB reorganization as well as Texas/Louisiana/Ark/Alabama FCS schools that might make sense. Either of those options would be better for Texas schools than a desperate bid to join the WAC. When it comes to the WAC, there's simply nothing in it for the Texas schools.

Why not use the WAC? There’s literally only 1 other FBS team over there. They could easily put a very nice Gulf-centric conference together.

Because you'd be stuck with its existing olympic members. Remember--there is no such thing as a football only FBS league. FBS football must be sponsored by a all sports league and at least 8 members of the sponsored FBS league must play olympic sports against one another in the sponsoring olympic sports league. The travel for olympics would be ridiculous. It would be one thing if you were traveling to play BYU or USC---but there's no reason to travel that far for teams that are simply no different (perhaps even inferior to in some ways) from similar schools in much closer proximity.

If the current WAC membership wants to leave and sell its corporate shell for a one time fee---then that might be worth considering. Otherwise, Texas schools would be better off creating a league that is designed around their needs.

(11-20-2020 07:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-20-2020 06:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, stop putting the Texas schools with the east coast schools. That is the problem with C-USA right now. The 4 Texas schools can go to the WAC to help reform an FBS conference.

That vastly INCREASES travel for Texas schools. I doubt the Texas schools would have any interest in the widely spread out WAC. If the Texas schools are left behind on a Texas island, there is no reason for them to go all the way to the WAC to get FCS level schools when plenty of FCS or better expansion options exist in much closer proximity. The 4 Texas schools could look at FBS schools left behind in any CUSA/SB reorganization as well as Texas/Louisiana/Ark/Alabama FCS schools that might make sense. Either of those options would be better for Texas schools than a desperate bid to join the WAC. When it comes to the WAC, there's simply nothing in it for the Texas schools.

Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Abilene Christian are rumored going to the WAC. West Texas A&M is rumored to join along with Angelo State. Chicago State is looking to leave for cost like the Horizon. Seattle wants WCC. That would leave California Baptist. WAC is looking mostly to be a Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado and Texas conference. They were looking at Central Arkansas to join.

How about a new twist?
North
Western kentucky
Marshall
James madison
Liberty
Old dominion
VCU-non football
South
Middle Tennessee
Charlotte
Appalachain state
East carolina
Coastal carolina
Davidson-non football
Tight regional conference and great basketball, baseball, and right now 3 teams in top 25 with app st right behind. Makes a lot of sense to me.