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College Basketball Tiers
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #181
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(09-30-2020 10:13 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2020 02:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(09-28-2020 02:02 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(09-28-2020 01:04 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(09-28-2020 12:39 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I personally don't believe in the "vacated" title punishment by the NCAA. You can take away a trophy, rip down a banner, erase the wins from the record books, but it doesn't take away the memory, per se, of a team's accomplishments. However, since the NCAA is the official governing body, it is what it is. I don't agree with it, but there needs to be some basis for determining on-court postseason success.

I think it giving tiers to programs, not only the number of championships a program has won is considered, but when they won is also a big consideration. UConn, for this reason alone, will never be a blue blood, simply because all of their elite level success has occurred within the past 25 years. Louisville has been steady for much longer and with more consistency. However, once again, UConn still has more national championships (condensed or not), so more value needs to be placed there. St. John's, for example, has five NIT Championship victories (four which occurred between 1943 and 1965); if we add those on, like we are discussing right here given the time-frame, then St. John's would have as many nationally recognized championships as Indiana or Duke.

All strong points, particularly the "when" a team won a title (NCAA or NIT).

Clearly, Louisville and UConn are in the tier below the four to six blue bloods and are extremely close in stature. An argument could be made for "ranking" one slightly above the other, with you giving the slight edge to UConn and me to UL. And then I would have St. John's (and your Marquette Warrriors, for example) in the third tier (a prestigious grouping also). Obviously, any program in the first three tiers (about 25 to 35 programs total) is outstanding.

Louisville and UConn have very different backgrounds, but they are both elite and are somewhat knocking at the ceiling...trying to enter the next level.

Louisville has been elite for generations. They are somewhat in the shadow of the Kentucky Wildcats, which hurts their status. Yet they have had great players since the 1950s and 1960s...for example, Wes Unseld and Butch Beard were great in college and the pros. They have won multiple championships under two long-tenured hall-of-fame coaches. Louisville is now a destination for great coaches...lots of resources, opportunities and a great tradition.

UConn was one of the top 2 or 3 programs for a couple of decades. From 1994 until 2014, Jim Calhoun built great teams that excelled at tournament time. It’s too early to tell whether UConn can maintain an elite level...it’s been rough during the past half dozen years.


I predict UConn hoops is about to elevate itself significantly. However, that could come at the expense of a fellow Big East program or two.

UConn simply has more resources (fans, money, history/tradition, fertile NE recruiting area, facilities, etc.) than most of the other Big East programs.

Do they have the money?

They have been bleeding Red for years. The hoops fanbase obviously will be reengerized this year. How many fans are allowed will affect everyone's bottom line.

If Hurley fails it could set back UConn for a decade.


The boosters could donate more money than otherwise. But your point is a good one.
09-30-2020 11:13 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #182
RE: College Basketball Tiers
Those posters who keep trying to "nominate" UConn as some kind of a "blue blood" program haven't been paying attention.

There are only five consensus blue blood BB schools that everyone has agreed on, given that the definition of "blue blood" is "noble in birth." In order to be considered "noble in birth," it is necessary for a program to have had a truly remarkable level of success (top tier with respect to multiple NCAA bids & multiple AP Top 20 finishes) dating back to 1959 or earlier.

1) UCLA (10 NCAA championships, 47 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1949)
2) Kentucky (6 NCAA championships; 58 NCAA bids; 43 top 25 teams since 1949)
3) UNC (6 NCAA championships, 50 NCAA bids; 50 top 25 teams since 1956)
4) Duke (5 NCAA championships; 43 NCAA bids; 47 top 25 teams since 1952)
5) Kansas (5 National championships; 48 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1950)

.

Tne next three teams are close enough to the top tier group to be considered BB "blue bloods" by fairly sizable number of fans:

6) Louisville (39 NCAA bids; 33 top 25 teams since 1952)
7) Indiana (39 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1950)
8) Syracuse (40 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1973)

NOTE: Syracuse would be considered the least "blue blood" team in this group, due to not having a Final AP top 25 team until 1973.

The next group of teams have had fewer NCAA bids, but a similar number of final AP top 25 teams:

9) Arizona (33 NCAA bids; 26 top 25 teams since 1948)
10) Illinois (30 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1949)
11) Michigan State (33 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1957)
12) Villanova (38 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1949)
13) Cincinnati (33 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1951)
14) Notre Dame (36 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1953)
15) Maryland (27 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1954)
16) Ohio State (29 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1949)
17) Michigan (25 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1964)

Many CBB fans would be disinclined to argue that there are more than 18 or 20 true CBB "blue blood" schools.

=============================================

So the rest of the schools that have been mentioned as possible "blue blood programs" but are not considered to be "consensus blue blood schools" would include the following:

18) Utah (29 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1949)
19) Marquette (33 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1955)
20) Purdue (30 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1955)
21) Oklahoma (29 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1949)
22) NC State (25 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
23) Oklahoma State (28 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)

=============================================

Even fewer CBB fans would suggest that there are more than 23 true CBB "blue blood programs.

Since none of these schools have had more than 16 AP Final top 25 teams, few would consider any of the following to be "blue blood" schools:


24) West Virginia (29 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1952)
25) Wake Forest (23 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1953)
26) New Mexico (15 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1968)
27) Oklahoma (32 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1979)
28) Kansas State (31 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
29) St. John's (29 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
30) Memphis (20 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1957)
31) Georgetown (30 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1980)
32) Arkansas (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1977)
33) Connecticut (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1989 (the year after NCAA-violator HC Calhoun assumed control)

Note: Because "blue blood" status is not conferred to the more "nouveau riche" schools that accumulated most of their success in the past 2 or 3 decades, and because all of UConn's final AP top-25 ranked teams coached by disgraced Head Coaches Calhoun and Ollie, who were found guilty of severe NCAA recruiting violations over a two-decade period, UConn comes no where close to being considered a "blue blood" BB program from the standpoint of the NCAA. UConn never had a team in the final AP top 25 until 1989 (decades after the vast majority of the other teams listed above).

The bottom line is that all but a few of the UConn men's basketball accomplishments were attributable to a systematic pattern of recruiting violations by their Head Coaches between 1988 and 2014, and that the only people who think that Connecticut even deserves to be mentioned in the conversation about the BB "blue blood" schools - - despite being a "Johnny-come-lately," are people who believe that there is nothing wrong with cheating to win basketball games.
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2020 03:59 PM by jedclampett.)
10-03-2020 03:38 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #183
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(10-03-2020 03:38 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  Those posters who keep trying to "nominate" UConn as some kind of a "blue blood" program haven't been paying attention.

There are only five consensus blue blood BB schools that everyone has agreed on, given that the definition of "blue blood" is "noble in birth." In order to be considered "noble in birth," it is necessary for a program to have had a truly remarkable level of success (top tier with respect to multiple NCAA bids & multiple AP Top 20 finishes) dating back to 1959 or earlier.

1) UCLA (10 NCAA championships, 47 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1949)
2) Kentucky (6 NCAA championships; 58 NCAA bids; 43 top 25 teams since 1949)
3) UNC (6 NCAA championships, 50 NCAA bids; 50 top 25 teams since 1956)
4) Duke (5 NCAA championships; 43 NCAA bids; 47 top 25 teams since 1952)
5) Kansas (5 National championships; 48 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1950)

.

Tne next three teams are close enough to the top tier group to be considered BB "blue bloods" by fairly sizable number of fans:

6) Louisville (39 NCAA bids; 33 top 25 teams since 1952)
7) Indiana (39 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1950)
8) Syracuse (40 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1973)

NOTE: Syracuse would be considered the least "blue blood" team in this group, due to not having a Final AP top 25 team until 1973.

The next group of teams have had fewer NCAA bids, but a similar number of final AP top 25 teams:

9) Arizona (33 NCAA bids; 26 top 25 teams since 1948)
10) Illinois (30 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1949)
11) Michigan State (33 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1957)
12) Villanova (38 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1949)
13) Cincinnati (33 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1951)
14) Notre Dame (36 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1953)
15) Maryland (27 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1954)
16) Ohio State (29 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1949)
17) Michigan (25 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1964)

Many CBB fans would be disinclined to argue that there are more than 18 or 20 true CBB "blue blood" schools.

=============================================

So the rest of the schools that have been mentioned as possible "blue blood programs" but are not considered to be "consensus blue blood schools" would include the following:

18) Utah (29 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1949)
19) Marquette (33 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1955)
20) Purdue (30 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1955)
21) Oklahoma (29 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1949)
22) NC State (25 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
23) Oklahoma State (28 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)

=============================================

Even fewer CBB fans would suggest that there are more than 23 true CBB "blue blood programs.

Since none of these schools have had more than 16 AP Final top 25 teams, few would consider any of the following to be "blue blood" schools:


24) West Virginia (29 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1952)
25) Wake Forest (23 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1953)
26) New Mexico (15 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1968)
27) Oklahoma (32 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1979)
28) Kansas State (31 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
29) St. John's (29 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
30) Memphis (20 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1957)
31) Georgetown (30 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1980)
32) Arkansas (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1977)
33) Connecticut (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1989 (the year after NCAA-violator HC Calhoun assumed control)

Note: Because "blue blood" status is not conferred to the more "nouveau riche" schools that accumulated most of their success in the past 2 or 3 decades, and because all of UConn's final AP top-25 ranked teams coached by disgraced Head Coaches Calhoun and Ollie, who were found guilty of severe NCAA recruiting violations over a two-decade period, UConn comes no where close to being considered a "blue blood" BB program from the standpoint of the NCAA. UConn never had a team in the final AP top 25 until 1989 (decades after the vast majority of the other teams listed above).

The bottom line is that all but a few of the UConn men's basketball accomplishments were attributable to a systematic pattern of recruiting violations by their Head Coaches between 1988 and 2014, and that the only people who think that Connecticut even deserves to be mentioned in the conversation about the BB "blue blood" schools - - despite being a "Johnny-come-lately," are people who believe that there is nothing wrong with cheating to win basketball games.

I hate to break it to you, but an overwhelming majority of these top programs you list have had serious scandals and/or penalties for cheating throughout the years. UConn, while penalized and sanctioned and various points throughout history - including over the past several years - has never had to forfeit a national championship, a Final Four or an Elite Eight appearance. It has one Sweet 16 appearance taken away (it still has 17 other appearances). Louisville has had a whopping 123 regular season and tournament games vacated, including a national championship and a Final Four. Michigan has had 113 games taken away that covered eight seasons (1992-1999). Syracuse had 106 games taken away between 2004 and 2012. Ohio State had 82 taken away between 1999 and 2002. Memphis had its national championship appearance taken away and lost all 38 games from that season. SMU, thanks to Larry Brown, had its entire season taken out in 2014.

In addition, Kentucky had the Death Penalty levied against it in the 50's; UNC has had its scandals, so has Kansas, so has Duke, so has Indiana. Other programs that have had games vacated over the years include Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, California, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Maryland, UMass, Minnesota, Purdue, Texas Tech, UCLA and USC, among many others.

If you are going to call out cheating and its senseless call to win basketball games, you might want to take a step back and expand your scope beyond UConn to see the history of transgressions throughout college basketball history.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2020 10:42 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
10-05-2020 10:42 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #184
RE: College Basketball Tiers
Kentucky's death penalty was because the players were shaving points.
10-05-2020 11:30 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #185
RE: College Basketball Tiers
UConn is just as guilty as the rest of the big boys.

The problem is the NCAA doesn't apply rules and punishment evenly. It is very personality driven.
10-05-2020 01:55 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #186
RE: College Basketball Tiers
The UConn rant is a whole lot of misplaced energy. Who cares about some ticky tack violations committed under CKO's reign when the current LSU coach, Bill Self, and plenty others are on wire taps admitting to pay players six figure sums? UConn's recent violations weren't that egregious. In fact the only reason they came to life is because UConn self reported in an attempt to get out of paying CKO his buyout. UConn isn't any dirtier than UNC, Duke, UK, KU, Indiana, UCLA, Louisville, or any other major program.
10-05-2020 04:17 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #187
RE: College Basketball Tiers
I looked at the NCAA infractions web-site for the first 100 major infractions listed for power 5 universities. Some findings and observations:

ACC - 11 out of 15 universities with major infractions...total of 20 major infractions
B12 - 8 out of 10 universities...with 18 major infractions
BIG - 11 of 14 universities...with 17 major infractions
PAC - 9 of 12 universities...23 major infractions
SEC - 11 of 14 universities...22 major infractions

The conclusion, most universities have major infractions...and this was just a sampling from about one-quarter of the pages listing major infractions. Academic and athletic profile doesn’t prohibit universities from NCAA major infractions...outstanding academic universities that compete at different stations of D1 (such as Stanford, Yale and Penn) have major infractions.
10-05-2020 05:27 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #188
RE: College Basketball Tiers
Thinking more on it, I think a team is a blue blood if it's been an elite level type program as long as most viewers (primarily focused on older viewers) remember. It's not something you can get to or fall out of in a decade, but as more and more college fans view a team as being a good before they were born, the more they will think of a team as a blue blood. On the flip side, if too much of your success starts falling outside of living memory, you start to lose that status. Instead it is thought of more as a history fact that a team was once a power more than anything special with the program.

Unlike other things in the sport though, the perception of teams being blue blood type of programs is generated more from older fans than younger ones. I think if your 40-60 year olds view a program that way, it tends to be viewed like that. Gradually those fans get older and the perception will die out if success is not maintained at an acceptable level.
10-05-2020 06:27 PM
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Post: #189
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(10-05-2020 06:27 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Thinking more on it, I think a team is a blue blood if it's been an elite level type program as long as most viewers (primarily focused on older viewers) remember. It's not something you can get to or fall out of in a decade, but as more and more college fans view a team as being a good before they were born, the more they will think of a team as a blue blood. On the flip side, if too much of your success starts falling outside of living memory, you start to lose that status. Instead it is thought of more as a history fact that a team was once a power more than anything special with the program.

Unlike other things in the sport though, the perception of teams being blue blood type of programs is generated more from older fans than younger ones. I think if your 40-60 year olds view a program that way, it tends to be viewed like that. Gradually those fans get older and the perception will die out if success is not maintained at an acceptable level.

Excellent Post!
10-06-2020 11:27 AM
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BatonRougeEscapee Offline
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Post: #190
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(10-05-2020 01:55 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  UConn is just as guilty as the rest of the big boys.

The problem is the NCAA doesn't apply rules and punishment evenly. It is very personality driven.

Schools whose punishments were excessive (in alphabetical order):
Louisville, Memphis

Schools let off the hook: Kansas (Darrell Arthur was just as ineligible in that game as D. Rose), UNC

Feel free to add to the list but so far it seems blue bloods get treated a little differently by the National Communists Against Athletes (Shout out to The Boz)
10-06-2020 11:37 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #191
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(10-05-2020 06:27 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Thinking more on it, I think a team is a blue blood if it's been an elite level type program as long as most viewers (primarily focused on older viewers) remember. It's not something you can get to or fall out of in a decade, but as more and more college fans view a team as being a good before they were born, the more they will think of a team as a blue blood. On the flip side, if too much of your success starts falling outside of living memory, you start to lose that status. Instead it is thought of more as a history fact that a team was once a power more than anything special with the program.

Unlike other things in the sport though, the perception of teams being blue blood type of programs is generated more from older fans than younger ones. I think if your 40-60 year olds view a program that way, it tends to be viewed like that. Gradually those fans get older and the perception will die out if success is not maintained at an acceptable level.

That is an accurate description, considering that the modern era of CBB and CFB began in the 1930s, when the first NCAA tournament and most of the major bowl games began.

Perhaps a day will come, a century from now, when some of today's consensus "blue blood" programs will eventually end up being described as "former blue blood programs," but for right now, it's hard to predict with any degree of confidence that an Indiana or UCLA will ever be called a "former blue blood BB school."
10-08-2020 07:33 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #192
RE: College Basketball Tiers
CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
11-19-2020 08:18 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #193
RE: College Basketball Tiers
Could somebody who is so inclined do a breakdown by conference?
11-19-2020 09:56 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #194
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

The author developed a real complex formula to calculate an order for best programs. His top 5 programs stand-out for having many more points than the next tier. These top 5 seem to be the universal “blue bloods”.

The points formula calculates performance evenly over the past 80 years. Would probably be better if success over the past 40 years (since the NCAA tournament was expanded) was weighted more heavily.
11-19-2020 10:30 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #195
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-19-2020 10:30 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

The author developed a real complex formula to calculate an order for best programs. His top 5 programs stand-out for having many more points than the next tier. These top 5 seem to be the universal “blue bloods”.

The points formula calculates performance evenly over the past 80 years. Would probably be better if success over the past 40 years (since the NCAA tournament was expanded) was weighted more heavily.

I disagree, because the CBS article is focusing on the GREATEST TEAMS OF ALL-TIME.

The issue is that success over the past 40 years is not as compelling as "all-time" success AND WHAT EVERYONE WANTS THE MOST IS TO BE ONE OF THE GREATEST TEAMS OF "ALL-TIME" (i.e., the truest of the true "blue bloods").

Anyone who wants to compile a list of the greatest teams over the past 40 years is, of course, free to do so, as could anyone who wants to compile a list of the greatest over the past 10 or 20 or 30 years, or over the past 50 or 75 years, or since the first NCAA tournament was held. But all of these are arbitrary dates, and all of them will only capture a segment of the audience (e.g., the past 40 years list would appeal mainly to people who are 16 to 50 years old).

The farther back the list goes in time, the more interesting it tends to be.

Why? Because most people are fascinated with the history of the game, and all the interesting and wonderful things that happened in those fabled times.

Also, because the older that you get, the more fascinated you're going to be with our nation's history. I guarantee it!
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2020 04:39 AM by jedclampett.)
11-20-2020 04:30 AM
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Post: #196
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

My Cincinnati Bearcats come in at #10.

Here are the metrics used by CBS:


NCAA Tournament championships (20 points)
Final Four appearances without a national title (10 points)
Regular-season titles (5 points)
Elite Eights without making the Final Four (3 points)
NIT titles (3 points)
NCAA Tournament bids (2 points)
Wins (0.5 points)
Losses (-0.5 points)
Wins over ranked opponents (0.5 points)
Weeks ranked (0.1 point)
Top-10 NBA picks (5 points)
11-30 NBA picks (3 points)
31-60 NBA picks (1 point)

The top 25

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
6. Louisville
7. Indiana
8. UConn
9. Villanova
10. Cincinnati
11. Syracuse
12. Ohio State
13. Arizona
14. Michigan State
15. Illinois
16. Utah
17. St. John's
18. Michigan
19. North Carolina St
20. Georgetown
21. Western Kentucky
22. Arkansas
23. Notre Dame
24. Temple
25. Oklahoma St
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2020 05:10 AM by CliftonAve.)
11-20-2020 05:02 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #197
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-20-2020 05:02 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

My Cincinnati Bearcats come in at #10.

Here are the metrics used by CBS:


NCAA Tournament championships (20 points)
Final Four appearances without a national title (10 points)
Regular-season titles (5 points)
Elite Eights without making the Final Four (3 points)
NIT titles (3 points)
NCAA Tournament bids (2 points)
Wins (0.5 points)
Losses (-0.5 points)
Wins over ranked opponents (0.5 points)
Weeks ranked (0.1 point)
Top-10 NBA picks (5 points)
11-30 NBA picks (3 points)
31-60 NBA picks (1 point)

The top 25

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
6. Louisville
7. Indiana
8. UConn
9. Villanova
10. Cincinnati
11. Syracuse
12. Ohio State
13. Arizona
14. Michigan State
15. Illinois
16. Utah
17. St. John's
18. Michigan
19. North Carolina St
20. Georgetown
21. Western Kentucky
22. Arkansas
23. Notre Dame
24. Temple
25. Oklahoma St

I would still place North Carolina ahead of Kentucky.

No one has pissed away more talent than John Calipari the last decade. One title with nearly 40 McDonald’s All Americans. That’s nearly 4 per team per season and he has one title to show for it.

The NCAA and the sports media kisses Calipari’s backside when someone should be calling Calipari out for underachieving.
11-20-2020 05:26 AM
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Post: #198
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-20-2020 05:02 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

My Cincinnati Bearcats come in at #10.

Here are the metrics used by CBS:


NCAA Tournament championships (20 points)
Final Four appearances without a national title (10 points)
Regular-season titles (5 points)
Elite Eights without making the Final Four (3 points)
NIT titles (3 points)
NCAA Tournament bids (2 points)
Wins (0.5 points)
Losses (-0.5 points)
Wins over ranked opponents (0.5 points)
Weeks ranked (0.1 point)
Top-10 NBA picks (5 points)
11-30 NBA picks (3 points)
31-60 NBA picks (1 point)

The top 25

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
6. Louisville
7. Indiana
8. UConn
9. Villanova
10. Cincinnati
11. Syracuse
12. Ohio State
13. Arizona
14. Michigan State
15. Illinois
16. Utah
17. St. John's
18. Michigan
19. North Carolina St
20. Georgetown
21. Western Kentucky
22. Arkansas
23. Notre Dame
24. Temple
25. Oklahoma St

I know they used a formula which I appreciate but I’d have as #4/5/6/7/8: Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, Louisville, Michigan St.
11-20-2020 06:48 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-20-2020 05:26 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(11-20-2020 05:02 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

My Cincinnati Bearcats come in at #10.

Here are the metrics used by CBS:


NCAA Tournament championships (20 points)
Final Four appearances without a national title (10 points)
Regular-season titles (5 points)
Elite Eights without making the Final Four (3 points)
NIT titles (3 points)
NCAA Tournament bids (2 points)
Wins (0.5 points)
Losses (-0.5 points)
Wins over ranked opponents (0.5 points)
Weeks ranked (0.1 point)
Top-10 NBA picks (5 points)
11-30 NBA picks (3 points)
31-60 NBA picks (1 point)

The top 25

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
6. Louisville
7. Indiana
8. UConn
9. Villanova
10. Cincinnati
11. Syracuse
12. Ohio State
13. Arizona
14. Michigan State
15. Illinois
16. Utah
17. St. John's
18. Michigan
19. North Carolina St
20. Georgetown
21. Western Kentucky
22. Arkansas
23. Notre Dame
24. Temple
25. Oklahoma St

I would still place North Carolina ahead of Kentucky.

No one has pissed away more talent than John Calipari the last decade. One title with nearly 40 McDonald’s All Americans. That’s nearly 4 per team per season and he has one title to show for it.

The NCAA and the sports media kisses Calipari’s backside when someone should be calling Calipari out for underachieving.


C-Jim,

I'm a North Carolina fan, but I would not be so quick to reverse UK and UNC. Based on the formula the journalist used, Kentucky simply came out on top. I'm cool with that.

As to Cal, I often feel he unfairly gets a bad rap and has not "underachieved" as much as you and other fans contend. But that's subjective, admittedly.
11-20-2020 09:15 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #200
RE: College Basketball Tiers
(11-19-2020 08:18 PM)schmolik Wrote:  CBS Sports ranked their best teams

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-all-time/

1. Kentucky
2. North Carolina
3. Duke
4. UCLA
5. Kansas

Solid breakdown of programs, with quality metrics in rankings creating tiers. My one critique would be the usage of conference championships be weighted as heavily. For example, Western Kentucky, which has one recognized Final Four/Elite Eight appearance in 1940, has a whopping 33 conference championships between the Ohio Valley and Sun Belt going back to the 30's, which easily bumps them into the top-25.

Conversely, many basketball programs were independent for long periods including, but not limited to, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Marquette, Notre Dame, DePaul, Dayton, Xavier, Memphis, Cincinnati and Louisville. Even others like Miami, Virginia Tech and West Virginia were independent for a number of years.

In my opinion, many programs were unfairly penalized for not being in a conference, thus being able to compete for a conference championship which artificially inflated a number of other programs' rankings.
11-20-2020 11:48 AM
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