I would buy UC and sell on BYU. This will probably be the only year that a unbeaten G5 team would have a legitimate shot at the playoff. I am assuming that Alabama and Ohio State will run the table. Also, a one loss Clemson or unbeaten ND gets in. I can’t see a B12 champion getting a bid. I think if comes down to an unbeaten PAC-12 champion (Oregon?) or an unbeaten UC team, I think the Bearcats might get the 4th playoff slot. And the committee would be able to say that the system allows a G5 team to earn their way into a playoff.

(11-18-2020 02:23 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 08:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:04 PM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Not only did BK leave Cincy before their biggest bowl in history, he took all of the assistants with him, leaving Cincy to be coached by grad assistants & player coaches. That was a bush league move that will forever taint his image.

I understand why a Cincy fan would be upset, but I'm not sure how Kelly could have handled it any differently, given that Notre Dame wanted him to be there immediately. And we all would have taken the ND job and would have started immediately if they insisted, so it's IMO a non-starter to say he should have stayed.

Him leaving the bowl like he did is a major sore spot for UC fans. As the poster mentioned, we were left with a skeleton coaching staff made up of grad assistants and in some cases player's dad to face off against Florida's staff Urban Meyer, DC Charlie Strong, and OC Steve Addazio. To this this day, this game is thrown in UC's face by people with an agenda that this bowl loss should preclude us from ever playing in a meaningful bowl game again.

FWIW, if a program went in to a bowl game even more demoralized than Cincy that year, it was Florida, as they were going through that bizarro situation with Urban Meyer being hospitalized after losing the SEC CCG, then resigning, then sort of saying he was coming back but not quite, etc. It was a really weird situation. The whole Florida program was discombobulated.

Truth is, Cincy was just no match athletically for Florida. Florida had 10 draft picks that year, most of any team, including 3 first rounders and 3 second rounders. They were a fully loaded Urban Meyer death star, probably the best team in the 16 years of the BCS not to play in the BCS title game. Cincy had 3 draft picks, none before the 4th round. The only teams that were better than them were Alabama and arguably Texas, and probably not Texas. The SEC CCG that year was between the two best teams in the country. TCU and Boise wouldn't have fared any better against them.

Urban Meyer had a medical condition. Kelly packed his bags and left his team high and dry after probably preaching to them all season about teamwork, accountability, loyalty blah blah blah

As A ND fan Kelly leaving Cincy the way he left a bad taste in mouth.

What was he supposed to do?

“Ah, no thanks Notre Dame. We’re going to do this MY way. Because after all, I just took lowly Cincinnati to a big time bowl!”

Come back to reality, friend. The Notre Dame job is one of the best of all time and he would have been foolish to try and stick around.

Mack Brown left Carolina for Texas, and the Heels still won the bowl game. People need to stop crying because their team got smoked on the national stage.

^ UNC played a 7-5 Virginia Tech team. UC played against the a team that had lost one game in two years; which included Tebow, Aaron Hernandez, the Pouncy Brothers, Carlos Dunlap, Joe Haden, Janoris Jenkins, Brandon Spikes and several other guys that were great college football players and went on to play on Sundays in the NFL. That team took most of its schedule to the woodshed that year. Hardly comparable.

I think you just helped illustrate Quo’s point.

(11-18-2020 04:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^ UNC played a 7-5 Virginia Tech team. UC played against the a team that had lost one game in two years; which included Tebow, Aaron Hernandez, the Pouncy Brothers, Carlos Dunlap, Joe Haden, Janoris Jenkins, Brandon Spikes and several other guys that were great college football players and went on to play on Sundays in the NFL. That team took most of its schedule to the woodshed that year. Hardly comparable.

Good post. Nobody really complained when BJ left for UT and UC beat Duke with a skeleton crew coaching staff. 2009 was another matter, and BK showed up to the UC Football dinner at the Westin with a police escort expecting the team to congratulate him.....as the news had just broke that ND hired him. Like rubbing salt into the wound.

(11-18-2020 04:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think you just helped illustrate Quo’s point.

I don’t entirely disagree with him. Nobody was beating Florida that year except Alabama.. and if there was a rematch that year for the NC I think Florida would have won.

BK leaving most likely did not change the fact UC lost that game. However, they might have put on a better showing. The point I made is that the game is a sore spot because people still bring up the outcome today- despite the fact there have been bigger blowouts before and after.

(11-18-2020 04:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think you just helped illustrate Quo’s point.

Are you the UC hater? There is 1 UNC poster who hates UC. Can't remember if that is you or someone else?

(11-18-2020 05:04 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 04:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think you just helped illustrate Quo’s point.

Are you the UC hater? There is 1 UNC poster who hates UC. Can't remember if that is you or someone else?

If by hater you mean the poster that doesn’t want the ACC to expand with Cincinnati or any other school, then yes. If you mean the poster who is a fan of John Brannen, then yes. If you mean the poster who actually owns an old school Danny Fortson jersey, then yes. I be that hater, matey.

(11-18-2020 05:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 05:04 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 04:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think you just helped illustrate Quo’s point.

Are you the UC hater? There is 1 UNC poster who hates UC. Can't remember if that is you or someone else?

If by hater you mean the poster that doesn’t want the ACC to expand with Cincinnati or any other school, then yes. If you mean the poster who is a fan of John Brannen, then yes. If you mean the poster who actually owns an old school Danny Fortson jersey, then yes. I be that hater, matey.

Must be somebody else.

If we ever (not likely to happen) totally commit to the ACC I hope and believe Cincy is a logical choice for 16.

(11-18-2020 04:27 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 02:23 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 08:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I understand why a Cincy fan would be upset, but I'm not sure how Kelly could have handled it any differently, given that Notre Dame wanted him to be there immediately. And we all would have taken the ND job and would have started immediately if they insisted, so it's IMO a non-starter to say he should have stayed.

Him leaving the bowl like he did is a major sore spot for UC fans. As the poster mentioned, we were left with a skeleton coaching staff made up of grad assistants and in some cases player's dad to face off against Florida's staff Urban Meyer, DC Charlie Strong, and OC Steve Addazio. To this this day, this game is thrown in UC's face by people with an agenda that this bowl loss should preclude us from ever playing in a meaningful bowl game again.

FWIW, if a program went in to a bowl game even more demoralized than Cincy that year, it was Florida, as they were going through that bizarro situation with Urban Meyer being hospitalized after losing the SEC CCG, then resigning, then sort of saying he was coming back but not quite, etc. It was a really weird situation. The whole Florida program was discombobulated.

Truth is, Cincy was just no match athletically for Florida. Florida had 10 draft picks that year, most of any team, including 3 first rounders and 3 second rounders. They were a fully loaded Urban Meyer death star, probably the best team in the 16 years of the BCS not to play in the BCS title game. Cincy had 3 draft picks, none before the 4th round. The only teams that were better than them were Alabama and arguably Texas, and probably not Texas. The SEC CCG that year was between the two best teams in the country. TCU and Boise wouldn't have fared any better against them.

Urban Meyer had a medical condition. Kelly packed his bags and left his team high and dry after probably preaching to them all season about teamwork, accountability, loyalty blah blah blah

As A ND fan Kelly leaving Cincy the way he left a bad taste in mouth.

What was he supposed to do?

“Ah, no thanks Notre Dame. We’re going to do this MY way. Because after all, I just took lowly Cincinnati to a big time bowl!”

Come back to reality, friend. The Notre Dame job is one of the best of all time and he would have been foolish to try and stick around.

Mack Brown left Carolina for Texas, and the Heels still won the bowl game. People need to stop crying because their team got smoked on the national stage.

Honor his commitment to coach the Cincy football team

He got them to the big show and was offered one of the most coveted coaching jobs in ALL of sports, surely you know that? If Notre Dame wanted him to hit the ground running after the Weis disaster, then it’s totally understandable not coaching the bowl game. It’s been happening every single season at much less prestigious gigs for as long as I can remember.

(11-18-2020 02:23 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 08:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:04 PM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Not only did BK leave Cincy before their biggest bowl in history, he took all of the assistants with him, leaving Cincy to be coached by grad assistants & player coaches. That was a bush league move that will forever taint his image.

I understand why a Cincy fan would be upset, but I'm not sure how Kelly could have handled it any differently, given that Notre Dame wanted him to be there immediately. And we all would have taken the ND job and would have started immediately if they insisted, so it's IMO a non-starter to say he should have stayed.

Him leaving the bowl like he did is a major sore spot for UC fans. As the poster mentioned, we were left with a skeleton coaching staff made up of grad assistants and in some cases player's dad to face off against Florida's staff Urban Meyer, DC Charlie Strong, and OC Steve Addazio. To this this day, this game is thrown in UC's face by people with an agenda that this bowl loss should preclude us from ever playing in a meaningful bowl game again.

FWIW, if a program went in to a bowl game even more demoralized than Cincy that year, it was Florida, as they were going through that bizarro situation with Urban Meyer being hospitalized after losing the SEC CCG, then resigning, then sort of saying he was coming back but not quite, etc. It was a really weird situation. The whole Florida program was discombobulated.

Truth is, Cincy was just no match athletically for Florida. Florida had 10 draft picks that year, most of any team, including 3 first rounders and 3 second rounders. They were a fully loaded Urban Meyer death star, probably the best team in the 16 years of the BCS not to play in the BCS title game. Cincy had 3 draft picks, none before the 4th round. The only teams that were better than them were Alabama and arguably Texas, and probably not Texas. The SEC CCG that year was between the two best teams in the country. TCU and Boise wouldn't have fared any better against them.

Urban Meyer had a medical condition. Kelly packed his bags and left his team high and dry after probably preaching to them all season about teamwork, accountability, loyalty blah blah blah

As A ND fan Kelly leaving Cincy the way he left a bad taste in mouth.

How else could Kelly have left? Of course he preached teamwork, accountability, etc. all season long - because all season long he didn't know he was leaving.

It's simple - a coach is committed to you, until the moment he isn't, at which point he changes his tune. We'd all do the same.

I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

We'd have to know the situation. A coach can ask to remain, as Frost did with UCF and Smart did with Georgia, and maybe they say "yes" like UNL and Georgia did. But what if Kelly had told ND he wanted to stay with Cincy through the bowl game and they said "no, we need you now"? Then we would all leave then and there.

To make your case, you'd have to know that the Irish indicated that Kelly could wait until after the Sugar Bowl and Kelly decided to leave early anyway. But we do not know that.

As for recruits, I seriously doubt how Kelly left Cincy impacted that in 2011, much less 2021. Kelly is hardly the first coach to leave a team before the season was over, had happened before, has happened again, will happen again.

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

Is the gold buried next to you Arch?

(11-19-2020 10:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

We'd have to know the situation. A coach can ask to remain, as Frost did with UCF and Smart did with Georgia, and maybe they say "yes" like UNL and Georgia did. But what if Kelly had told ND he wanted to stay with Cincy through the bowl game and they said "no, we need you now"? Then we would all leave then and there.

To make your case, you'd have to know that the Irish indicated that Kelly could wait until after the Sugar Bowl and Kelly decided to leave early anyway. But we do not know that.

As for recruits, I seriously doubt how Kelly left Cincy impacted that in 2011, much less 2021. Kelly is hardly the first coach to leave a team before the season was over, had happened before, has happened again, will happen again.

We do not know what was discussed but observing Kelly over the years I doubt he pushed hard if at all to coach Cincy in the bowl game. I would like to think ND would have admired Kelly's request to finish the season with Cincy but again I was not privy to the conversations. They could have announced Kelly as the new hire like Nebraska did with Frost so that Kelly could start recruiting for ND but coach Cincy for the bowl game.

(11-19-2020 10:51 AM)Statefan Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

Is the gold buried next to you Arch?

You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: those with loaded guns ... and those who dig. ... You dig."

(11-19-2020 11:58 AM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(11-19-2020 10:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

We'd have to know the situation. A coach can ask to remain, as Frost did with UCF and Smart did with Georgia, and maybe they say "yes" like UNL and Georgia did. But what if Kelly had told ND he wanted to stay with Cincy through the bowl game and they said "no, we need you now"? Then we would all leave then and there.

To make your case, you'd have to know that the Irish indicated that Kelly could wait until after the Sugar Bowl and Kelly decided to leave early anyway. But we do not know that.

As for recruits, I seriously doubt how Kelly left Cincy impacted that in 2011, much less 2021. Kelly is hardly the first coach to leave a team before the season was over, had happened before, has happened again, will happen again.

We do not know what was discussed but observing Kelly over the years I doubt he pushed hard if at all to coach Cincy in the bowl game. I would like to think ND would have admired Kelly's request to finish the season with Cincy but again I was not privy to the conversations. They could have announced Kelly as the new hire like Nebraska did with Frost so that Kelly could start recruiting for ND but coach Cincy for the bowl game.

Sure, Notre Dame could have allowed Kelly to coach Cincy in the bowl game. But they had no obligation to, and it is understandable that they would want him to jump in to recruiting right away. But Kelly couldn't control that, and if the Irish insisted that he come now, there's no way anyone should have expected him to refuse.

(11-19-2020 12:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-19-2020 11:58 AM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  

(11-19-2020 10:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 10:53 PM)Arch Stanton Wrote:  I don't think we would all do the same. Frost and Fleck both stayed and coached their undefeated teams in a New Years Day Bowl. I know coaches leave to take better jobs all the time but in this case leaving an undefeated team about to play in New Years Day Bowl was not the right thing to do IMO. Kirby Smart stayed as DC after he took the Ga job.

I would like to think that Kelly would have gotten more recruits by demonstrating loyalty and stayed to coach Cincy for the bowl game.

We'd have to know the situation. A coach can ask to remain, as Frost did with UCF and Smart did with Georgia, and maybe they say "yes" like UNL and Georgia did. But what if Kelly had told ND he wanted to stay with Cincy through the bowl game and they said "no, we need you now"? Then we would all leave then and there.

To make your case, you'd have to know that the Irish indicated that Kelly could wait until after the Sugar Bowl and Kelly decided to leave early anyway. But we do not know that.

As for recruits, I seriously doubt how Kelly left Cincy impacted that in 2011, much less 2021. Kelly is hardly the first coach to leave a team before the season was over, had happened before, has happened again, will happen again.

We do not know what was discussed but observing Kelly over the years I doubt he pushed hard if at all to coach Cincy in the bowl game. I would like to think ND would have admired Kelly's request to finish the season with Cincy but again I was not privy to the conversations. They could have announced Kelly as the new hire like Nebraska did with Frost so that Kelly could start recruiting for ND but coach Cincy for the bowl game.

Sure, Notre Dame could have allowed Kelly to coach Cincy in the bowl game. But they had no obligation to, and it is understandable that they would want him to jump in to recruiting right away. But Kelly couldn't control that, and if the Irish insisted that he come now, there's no way anyone should have expected him to refuse.

Nobody expected him to refuse if ND gave him the ultimatum to come now or forget the job because almost always coaches look out only for themselves but of course he could have refused the offer.

I suspect that ND would have agreed to let Kelly stay given that they were desperate for a good coach to run and rebuild the program but of course this is speculation on my part.

Look at Steve McNair he committed to Alcorn State when nobody else recruited him. When he grew and had a great senior HS season every P5 recruited him. He kept his commitment and attended Alcorn State.