(11-16-2020 04:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 02:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Push it to May Madness. Vaccines will be out by then.

I like that for two reasons. 1) The vaccine as you mentioned. 2) A trial run to push the tournament past March. I like the idea of making college basketball a one-semester sport. The season (normally) starts too early, and gets drowned in the ocean of football. Move the season out a month or two, and play the heart of the season after the CFP.

For a "trial run" meaning you'd like to make men's basketball a one-semester sport permanently, you'd really hurt spring sports like baseball, softball, etc. unless you delay those sports and then they end way into the summer (I have heard baseball wants to do that anyway). If you pushed men's/women's basketball back 6-8 weeks, the tournament runs into final exam/graduation season in many schools on semester schedules. Right now the middle of the season does include December which includes final exams in most schools but December is early in the season and is mostly non conference games. There's a difference between having non conference games and "championship" games during "finals week".

Like it or not, college athletics has three "seasons" so someone has to cross in the middle.

(11-16-2020 03:56 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Could they compress the schedule to two weeks?

Reduce the field to 64 teams, eliminate the First Four.

1st Round: Th/F March 25-26
2nd Round: Sa/Su March 27-28
Sweet 16: M/T March 29-30
Elite 8: W/Th March 31-April 1
Final 4 and National Championship as scheduled, Sa April 3, M April 5.

I would suggest having the top 16 seeds host the first two rounds on March 23-24. Winners advance to Indianapolis, where they quarantine for ten days before playing a four day Sweet Sixteen tournament between April 8-11. They can all attend classes online while they are in quarantine. Each team gets to practice at a different venue during their quarantine period so they can't contaminate another team. If any players test positive for 3 consecutive days, their team is out of the tournament.


EDIT: After further thought, why give an advantage to the very best teams in a way that would be viewed as unfair? If there aren't going to be any fans present anyway, let's have those first two rounds on the home court of the lowest 16 seeds. Then nobody can complain about bias in favor of the bluebloods.

(11-16-2020 11:44 AM)sctvman Wrote:  That plus Lucas Oil Stadium and high school gyms. Definitely no shortage of venues in the Indianapolis area.

(11-16-2020 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:44 AM)sctvman Wrote:  That plus Lucas Oil Stadium and high school gyms. Definitely no shortage of venues in the Indianapolis area.

Not to mention you can use other facilities around the state:

Indiana
Purdue
ND
Butler
IUPUI
PUFW
Indiana St
Evansville
Ball St
Valparaiso

Bunch of good size HS gyms. Indiana Pacers played a few games at least one season at Anderson High School, which seats 7,000. Crowds aren't really going to be a factor, since they will be limited.

(11-16-2020 12:13 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Having the entire tournament in Indianapolis shouldn't be an issue. The following venues should be available:

Lucas Oil Stadium
Bankers Life Fieldhouse
Hinkle Fieldhouse
Indiana Farmers Coliseum (Fairgrounds arena, used by IUPUI)
IUPUI Gym (holds 1200 - if tickets aren't sold, it's not an issue)
Multiple high school and small college gyms

If they're willing to drive a short distance, Indiana and Purdue are also available.

Indianapolis is a large city, but a lot of hotel space will be needed for 68 teams, limited traveling parties, and the media. The important part is to pull off the event in order to fulfill the TV contract and collect the income.

Get ready for the Hoosier Bubble.

Most of those HS gyms only have 84 feet courts and secondarily, they probably won't have the necessary locker room space.

Honestly, downtown Kansas City would be a pretty good location too with the renovated Hy-vee arena since you won't be worried about fan capacity.

You could host the entire tournament in Hy-vee arena in Kansas City since it has 12 courts. (Formally Kemper arena that hosted the 1988 final four), but to spread out the teams, you can have 1 game at a time in the upper arena, 1 at a time in the lower arena, plus you have Municipal arena (9 final fours) and the T-mobile(Sprint) Center (women's final four, men's elite 8) downtown just blocks away so you can have 4 simultaneous games going on all in venues that have a ton of March Madness history.

(11-16-2020 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:44 AM)sctvman Wrote:  That plus Lucas Oil Stadium and high school gyms. Definitely no shortage of venues in the Indianapolis area.

Not to mention you can use other facilities around the state:

Indiana
Purdue
ND
Butler
IUPUI
PUFW
Indiana St
Evansville
Ball St
Valparaiso

I don't know how to break it to you, but Cincinnati is closer to Indianapolis than Valparaiso is...

There's going to be some questions about whether to even bring in 68 this year since the Ivy League isn't playing.

The use of a bubble changes the way the games can be played as well. You no longer have to have rounds spread a week apart because of traveling. My guess is that the tournament will open two weeks after Selection Sunday instead of 1 to give time to quarrantine. While there will be some vaccination nation wide by that point, there won't be enough to guarantee it for players.

Example Format using Indianapolis

First Four: Tuesday Week after Selection Sunday (So 9 days) Put all 4 games on the same day, to really show off the opening.

First and Second Round Traditional Thursday-Sunday Schedule, but on the original date of the Regional Finals. Can still use 8 gyms.

Sweet 16 Monday and Tuesday after the first rounds. To make this work, we'll need to go back to the old days of one half of the bracket playing on Thursday/Saturday the other on Friday/Sunday in rounds 1 and 2 to ensure the teams who played Thursday/Saturday face each other on Monday and the Friday/Sunday crew face each other on Tuesday

Elite 8: Wednesday and Thursday Nights

Final Four/Championship Game. Using the same Saturday/Monday dates that were previously set. See if you can allow limited capacity attendance for this. (Indiana probably would go for it by that point) but play the first 4 rounds with no fans.

Teams would enter the bubble the Saturday before the NCAA Tournament starts to allow for some lead in time to quarantine. The eventual Final Four would spend roughly two weeks in the bubble before departing after the title game.

(11-16-2020 10:03 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:44 AM)sctvman Wrote:  That plus Lucas Oil Stadium and high school gyms. Definitely no shortage of venues in the Indianapolis area.

Not to mention you can use other facilities around the state:

Indiana
Purdue
ND
Butler
IUPUI
PUFW
Indiana St
Evansville
Ball St
Valparaiso

I don't know how to break it to you, but Cincinnati is closer to Indianapolis than Valparaiso is...

Yeah. Cincinnati, Louisville, Dayton, and Urbana-Champaign are all closer than Notre Dame, Valpo, and Evansville. They're slightly closer than Fort Wayne.

Cincinnati has 6 NCAA-quality arenas at Miami, Xavier, UC (2 arenas), NKU, and US Bank Arena. Miami and US Bank are both a bit outdated for an NCAA event, but they're huge. UC actually has two arenas: one is the arena where The Big O played and seats 8,000 (it's currently being used for indoor track, but it would be easy to put a moveable court on it).

But the big asset that Indianapolis has over all those is the indoor NFL arena. That's easy to turn into the center for the whole shindig.

It should be in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Easily accessible by air to/from DFW and Love Field. It has the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, AT&T Stadium in Arlington, the Star in Frisco, it's home to four Div I schools (TCU, SMU, UNT and UT-Arlington) and tons of high school gyms that put some Div I schools to shame.

(11-16-2020 11:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  It should be in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Easily accessible by air to/from DFW and Love Field. It has the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, AT&T Stadium in Arlington, the Star in Frisco, it's home to four Div I schools (TCU, SMU, UNT and UT-Arlington) and tons of high school gyms that put some Div I schools to shame.

Good call. The Dallas-Ft. Worth area could easily provide 8+ venues, which would limit the number of consecutive games and practice sessions that would need to be held at individual venues. Assuming only 4 usable venues in Indianapolis itself, during the first round, each venue would need to host 8 games over 2 days. The large number of high schools in the area should provide plenty of practice space in either location, but with 8 venues in DFW participating schools could also have access to the arena in which they would be playing for practice.

In addition to the venues you mention, there is also the Comerica Center in Frisco, which is home to a G-League team, the Allen Events Center in Allen, which is home to an ECHL team, Globe Life Field, domed home of the Rangers, the Fort Worth Convention Center, which was home to the ABA Texas Chaparrals (now the Spurs), and the Fair Park Coliseum, another home of the Chaparrals. It is also worth noting that UT-Arlington arena is the home of the local WNBA franchise.

Apparently, this pandemic snuck up on the planners at the NCAA. I mean, how could they have foreseen that some adjustments to the basketball season might need to be made before this? (This is why we need a sarcasm font on this site)

These are the (admittedly) drastic changes I would have made.

Start the season on 12/19 after all exams are done. From 12/19 to 1/9 schedule OOC games only. Conference play runs from 1/10 to 3/13. No conference tournaments. If there is a tie in the conference, the two highest ranked teams playoff on 3/15 to determine a champion.

The NCAAT field for this year only is reduced to 32 teams: the 16 highest ranked conference champions and 16 highest ranked non champions as at-large entries. All 32 teams remain in strict quarantine until 3/26, during which time players and coaches/managers may only be in contact with one another (to allow for practice schedules). Tournament officials must also quarantine during this period.

On Saturday, 3/27 all teams travel to a single city. The tournament is played in a bubble, with no fans allowed. The first round starts Sunday, 3/28 at multiple venues in the city, and the Sweet 16 round the following day. Tuesday is a day of rest. The Elite 8 starts Wednesday, 3/31 at a single venue, with the semifinal game on Thursday 4/1. The Finals are played on Saturday, April 3.

(11-17-2020 08:53 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  It should be in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Easily accessible by air to/from DFW and Love Field. It has the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, AT&T Stadium in Arlington, the Star in Frisco, it's home to four Div I schools (TCU, SMU, UNT and UT-Arlington) and tons of high school gyms that put some Div I schools to shame.

Good call. The Dallas-Ft. Worth area could easily provide 8+ venues, which would limit the number of consecutive games and practice sessions that would need to be held at individual venues. Assuming only 4 usable venues in Indianapolis itself, during the first round, each venue would need to host 8 games over 2 days. The large number of high schools in the area should provide plenty of practice space in either location, but with 8 venues in DFW participating schools could also have access to the arena in which they would be playing for practice.

In addition to the venues you mention, there is also the Comerica Center in Frisco, which is home to a G-League team, the Allen Events Center in Allen, which is home to an ECHL team, Globe Life Field, domed home of the Rangers, the Fort Worth Convention Center, which was home to the ABA Texas Chaparrals (now the Spurs), and the Fair Park Coliseum, another home of the Chaparrals. It is also worth noting that UT-Arlington arena is the home of the local WNBA franchise.

Denton & Frisco are over 45 miles North. Forth Worth is over 35 miles West. Even if there's no traffic, it's an hour drive from Fort Worth to Dent.

Cincinnati-Dayton together have the same number of arenas as DFW (8). And they're less spread out.

(11-17-2020 05:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:53 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  It should be in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Easily accessible by air to/from DFW and Love Field. It has the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, AT&T Stadium in Arlington, the Star in Frisco, it's home to four Div I schools (TCU, SMU, UNT and UT-Arlington) and tons of high school gyms that put some Div I schools to shame.

Good call. The Dallas-Ft. Worth area could easily provide 8+ venues, which would limit the number of consecutive games and practice sessions that would need to be held at individual venues. Assuming only 4 usable venues in Indianapolis itself, during the first round, each venue would need to host 8 games over 2 days. The large number of high schools in the area should provide plenty of practice space in either location, but with 8 venues in DFW participating schools could also have access to the arena in which they would be playing for practice.

In addition to the venues you mention, there is also the Comerica Center in Frisco, which is home to a G-League team, the Allen Events Center in Allen, which is home to an ECHL team, Globe Life Field, domed home of the Rangers, the Fort Worth Convention Center, which was home to the ABA Texas Chaparrals (now the Spurs), and the Fair Park Coliseum, another home of the Chaparrals. It is also worth noting that UT-Arlington arena is the home of the local WNBA franchise.

Denton & Frisco are over 45 miles North. Forth Worth is over 35 miles West. Even if there's no traffic, it's an hour drive from Fort Worth to Dent.

Cincinnati-Dayton together have the same number of arenas as DFW (8). And they're less spread out.

What's the 8th arena in Cincinnati-Dayton? I can name US Bank Arena and the arenas at Northern Kentucky, Cincinnati, Xavier, Miami, Dayton, and Wright State. Wright State is only an hour from downtown Cincinnati.

It's an hour from downtown Fort Worth to Frisco (48 minutes with no traffic per Google Maps as I type). But, DFW airport is centrally located between downtown Dallas, downtown Fort Worth, Frisco, and Denton. It's now smack in the middle of the DFW Metroplex. The Gaylord Texan resort is right outside the airport, and makes for a perfect headquarters bubble. There are several other quality hotels both inside and outside the airport. The Big 12, the American, Conference USA, and the Southland conferences are all based in DFW and can serve as hosts. You could really find 8 arenas without having to go to Denton: TCU and Dickies Arena (FW), UTA and AT&T (Arlington), American Airlines Center and SMU (Dallas), and The Star and Comerica Center (Frisco). Substitute Globe Life Field in Arlington and the Fort Worth Convention Center for the two Frisco venues, and the footprint becomes even tighter.

The NCAA is based in Indianapolis, and they're comfortable with having the tournament there, so the tournament will end up there.

(11-17-2020 08:53 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 11:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  It should be in Dallas-Fort Worth.

Easily accessible by air to/from DFW and Love Field. It has the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, AT&T Stadium in Arlington, the Star in Frisco, it's home to four Div I schools (TCU, SMU, UNT and UT-Arlington) and tons of high school gyms that put some Div I schools to shame.

Good call. The Dallas-Ft. Worth area could easily provide 8+ venues, which would limit the number of consecutive games and practice sessions that would need to be held at individual venues. Assuming only 4 usable venues in Indianapolis itself, during the first round, each venue would need to host 8 games over 2 days. The large number of high schools in the area should provide plenty of practice space in either location, but with 8 venues in DFW participating schools could also have access to the arena in which they would be playing for practice.

In addition to the venues you mention, there is also the Comerica Center in Frisco, which is home to a G-League team, the Allen Events Center in Allen, which is home to an ECHL team, Globe Life Field, domed home of the Rangers, the Fort Worth Convention Center, which was home to the ABA Texas Chaparrals (now the Spurs), and the Fair Park Coliseum, another home of the Chaparrals. It is also worth noting that UT-Arlington arena is the home of the local WNBA franchise.

I forgot the UT-Arlington College Park Center (7k seats) is home to the WNBA's Dallas Wings. Thanks. Then there's the other venues you mentioned. I think DFW would be an excellent choice from a logistic point given all the arenas in the area but Indianapolis will get it.

The NCAA made it official: the entire tournament will be played in Indiana:

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men...ampionship

They will use two courts at Lucas Oil Stadium, and will use Bankers Life Fieldhouse, Hinkle Fieldhouse, Indiana Farmers Coliseum, Assembly Hall (Bloomington), and Mackey Arena (West Lafayette).

Only one game at a time will be played at Lucas Oil Stadium.

It has not been determined if fans will be allowed in any of the venues for games.

Wise decision

We really missed out on an interesting 2020 Tournament because of the NCAA's lack of interest/planning.

(01-04-2021 12:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  The NCAA made it official: the entire tournament will be played in Indiana:

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men...ampionship

They will use two courts at Lucas Oil Stadium, and will use Bankers Life Fieldhouse, Hinkle Fieldhouse, Indiana Farmers Coliseum, Assembly Hall (Bloomington), and Mackey Arena (West Lafayette).

Only one game at a time will be played at Lucas Oil Stadium.

It has not been determined if fans will be allowed in any of the venues for games.

My daughter is a freshman at Purdue. She'd love it if they let fans into the games as her dorm is within walking distance of Mackey. That's a mighty big bubble though as West Lafayette is maybe 90 minutes from downtown Indianapolis (and Bloomington might be even further than that?). I'll assume teams will stay in Indianapolis and then just bus to the games in the arenas not in Indianapolis?

I'll also assume they'll do something similar for the women's tournament, but in a different state. I'd put my money on Texas there (either San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth or Houston).

(01-04-2021 02:06 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'll also assume they'll do something similar for the women's tournament, but in a different state. I'd put my money on Texas there (either San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth or Houston).

I've read where they were looking at San Antonio for the women's tournament, but I'm not sure.

New dates: https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men...ound-dates

I bet that schedule sticks permanently past this season.