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come on guy ...dont be crazy about argument
but
The high school basketball stuff is funny ,,,it is like closing bars closing at 10 pm to decrease the spread ,,,,like the virus will start to be dangerous at 1001

people who make those silly rule think that we will save life ,,but they dont ,,,,
fyi people die everyday for drug overdose . lung cancer , car or work accident related to roh but nobody or few stop drinking or smoking ,,,the world will not come a prevention society in a year ,,,,it is a learning process . you need effort and determination ,,,,,but unfortunately most people dont have it

please be polite and respect everyone even it seem like crazy argument

(11-17-2020 10:49 AM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  please be polite and respect everyone even it seem like crazy argument

Nope. Unmoderated thread, I'm going to put it out there like I see fit. If the snowflakes have a problem with it, that's on them. People who disagree with them don't get respect- they get condescension. I owe them none in return.

(11-17-2020 10:49 AM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  come on guy ...dont be crazy about argument
but
The high school basketball stuff is funny ,,,it is like closing bars closing at 10 pm to decrease the spread ,,,,like the virus will start to be dangerous at 1001

people who make those silly rule think that we will save life ,,but they dont ,,,,
fyi people die everyday for drug overdose . lung cancer , car or work accident related to roh but nobody or few stop drinking or smoking ,,,the world will not come a prevention society in a year ,,,,it is a learning process . you need effort and determination ,,,,,but unfortunately most people dont have it

please be polite and respect everyone even it seem like crazy argument

But you make great points. Detached from reality. It is like the random plexiglass partitions that get put up randomly. Anyone with any sense at all knows that is pointless. Even the "experts" have said as much. I remember one of them mentioning around the time of the presidential debate when they had the barrier between them that it would "only be effective in the event the candidates started spitting at each other." Now, that might have been the reason they were there, because I could have seen that scenario playing out. But in reality it was there for the purpose of virtue signaling. I will say this, one group of people who aren't complaining- the plexiglass industry. They've made out like bandits this year.

(11-17-2020 11:21 AM)BatesUAB Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 10:49 AM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  please be polite and respect everyone even it seem like crazy argument

Nope. Unmoderated thread, I'm going to put it out there like I see fit. If the snowflakes have a problem with it, that's on them. People who disagree with them don't get respect- they get condescension. I owe them none in return.

got it but just be civilized )

(11-17-2020 10:18 AM)BatesUAB Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:01 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 12:00 AM)BatesUAB Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 08:00 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  A) The experts didn't have enough information about COVID-19 which leads to...

B) The reason why Fauci said initially way back in February that mask were not necessary. Probably should have just said he wasn't certain if a mask was necessary.

But this is a matter of common sense. Fauci amended his statement about wearing a mask in March. So for freaking 8 months it has been preached and proven that an effective mask helps slow the spread of the virus. If people want to harp on what was said in February and play the "Butt butt butt he said" card then you're that person that will simply look for any excuse not to wear a mask.

It's not rocket science people. You're being asked to wear a mask to prevent spreading this virus to another person; not because liberals want to take your religion, guns, and pro-life choices away from you.

This is garbage.

Insightful and informed response.

Fauci was either wrong, misinformed, or trying to conserve PPE, whatever you want to say. I can’t completely absolve him for what he said back in March. However, he AT LEAST has changed his tune and preaches that masks are a way to help slow the spread of the virus. Trump, on the other hand, has politicized this thing to an incredible degree, has demeaned masks, and pushed phony treatments. What trump has done, or better put - not done, is infinitely worse than one statement by fauci way back at the beginning of this whole thing.

Trump has given up and is content to let half a million Americans die before a vaccine is widely distributed, because he’s abdicated his responsibilities in favor of a temper tantrum over a lost election.

Most people haven’t even seen that video from fauci. People see trump every single day denigrating masks, making fun of people wearing them, and completely giving up on any sort of mitigation strategy that could help before a vaccine is widely available.

I agree with you bates that a lot of the shutdowns have been illogical at best in terms of what businesses cities/states are closing and allowing to stay open and weird other rules...

I will also point out that rates of mask usage are higher now than ever, yet we are seeing the spike. I won't pretend to give an explanation, but it is just a fact. See this article:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/...poll-finds

And I won't defend Trump's rhetoric. I will say this- the administration stopped travel from China on January 31, and a lot of the people skewering Trump now were at the time calling him a bigot, while also encouraging people to go about their business. But my larger issue here is that the vast majority of this country appears to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government works. It's ironic- people who like to call Trump a dictator at the same time argue he should do things only a dictator could. The President of the United States cannot mandate wearing a mask. Congress can't even do that. The federal government, under our Constitution (that still exists, by the way) does not have general police powers. It cannot order shutdowns of businesses. All the things people say Trump hasn't been doing- he doesn't have the authority. Our Constitution and laws don't cease to exist just because there is a pandemic, although at times it seems like it. So I would ask you- list for me the things you would have done if you were President. And not just "I wouldn't say stupid sh!t on Twitter," because that's low hanging fruit.

In the end, a lot of this was unavoidable. If a virus like this gets loose in a free society, people will die. This isn't China- you can't post police on the street and arrest whoever comes out of their homes. We can wear masks, physically distance (that's another peeve of mine- the phrase "social distancing"- that doesn't make any sense. We aren't distancing ourselves socially, we're distancing ourselves physically. More stupidity in this whole mess), put up all the plexiglass you want- in the end only a vaccine or herd immunity ends this. And a lot of really freaking smart people have spent this year moving mountains to make that vaccine happen, and to me that is the story here. That is human spirit and ingenuity. And a lot of that is being done because of the Trump administration. Twenty years from now, when the final word is written, there will be a lot of negative things that can be said about him, but some positives, too. And some people can't/won't admit that. Such as the governor of New York, who lamented the vaccine coming out too soon.

(11-17-2020 12:46 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

In my experiences on the wastelands of Twitter and Facebook, responding with a meme means you are either a dumbshit 20-something or teenager, or just a dumb ****.

(Sorry C-Finder, but it's the truth)

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/940...0641&faf=1

it sound like graft versus host disease ,,,it is well know in transplantation surgery especially for small bowel surgery transplant
maybe anti rejection rx will be a new trt for ventilated pt from covid

(11-17-2020 02:59 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  I will also point out that rates of mask usage are higher now than ever, yet we are seeing the spike.

What is the percentage of people that actually wear the mask correctly? You know like it actually covers your nose and mouth and not simply hang on your ear or pull down under your chin.

(11-17-2020 04:16 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 02:59 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  I will also point out that rates of mask usage are higher now than ever, yet we are seeing the spike.

What is the percentage of people that actually wear the mask correctly? You know like it actually covers your nose and mouth and not simply hang on your ear or pull down under your chin.

And despite the supposed higher rates of mask usage, the rate of usage still isn’t high enough, largely due to trumps ongoing denigration of masks.

Trump wanted the easy way out, to find a miracle cure. He didn’t want to do the tough mitigation techniques which could’ve lowered the number of deaths. He had no time for things like supporting masks, physical distancing, etc

Speaking of Covid, my aunt will be released from UAB tomorrow after a 3 month bout with Covid and complications from Covid. She originally we into the hospital back on August 15th and was on a ventilator for 7 weeks and in ICU for 9 weeks. She's a healthcare worker who worked hard to care for the ill and unfortunately she contracted the virus at work. She's been at UAB for almost 30 years as a RN and the support she got from everyone there has been amazing. I'm so happy that she has made it through.

(11-17-2020 04:36 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  Speaking of Covid, my aunt will be released from UAB tomorrow after a 3 month bout with Covid and complications from Covid. She originally we into the hospital back on August 15th and was on a ventilator for 7 weeks and in ICU for 9 weeks. She's a healthcare worker who worked hard to care for the ill and unfortunately she contracted the virus at work. She's been at UAB for almost 30 years as a RN and the support she got from everyone there has been amazing. I'm so happy that she has made it through.

That's amazing! I hope she continues to improve. That's an incredibly long time to be on a ventilator and survive.

(11-17-2020 04:06 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/940...0641&faf=1

it sound like graft versus host disease ,,,it is well know in transplantation surgery especially for small bowel surgery transplant
maybe anti rejection rx will be a new trt for ventilated pt from covid

Based on my reading the it's more likely that the virus enters via the ACE2 receptor in the lungs and starts to replicate in the endothelium. Once that happens there is a cytokine release that sets up multiple inflammatory signals but also starts a microvascular clotting cascade. What we see on CT isn't typical for a pneumonia but looks more like multiple small infarcts. Many of these patients end up with pulmonary hypertension with right then left heart failure

Probably more than you wanted to know

(11-17-2020 04:32 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  the rate of usage still isn’t high enough, largely due to trumps ongoing denigration of masks.

Trump wanted the easy way out, to find a miracle cure. He didn’t want to do the tough mitigation techniques which could’ve lowered the number of deaths. He had no time for things like supporting masks, physical distancing, etc

Got data to back that up? You think the people who aren't wearing a mask are doing so because "Trump said so?" This- this is the thought process I'm talking about. You figure if someone isn't wearing a mask, they're just a dumb ol' bumkin, MAGA hat wearing, idiot Trump voter. And we know those folks just do whatever Trump says. Just a bunch of sheep doing what they're told. One thing I'm glad we're done with is the Trump obsession. The question is, who are you going to have to blame now?

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me what "mitigation techniques" you would've done, within the confines of what the Constitution and law allows of the President. All you can point to in rhetoric. Sure, the rhetoric was bad, but is that where you're really going to place the blame? On a Twitter feed?

And we all are waiting for a "miracle cure." It's called a vaccine. And the President AND CONGRESS (in a bipartisan way, I will give credit) have funded those to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars. Off the top of my head I know about $1.6 billion to Novavax and about $2 billion to Pfizer.

You're gonna have to come with better than this crap.

(11-17-2020 05:46 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 04:32 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  the rate of usage still isn’t high enough, largely due to trumps ongoing denigration of masks.

Trump wanted the easy way out, to find a miracle cure. He didn’t want to do the tough mitigation techniques which could’ve lowered the number of deaths. He had no time for things like supporting masks, physical distancing, etc

Got data to back that up? You think the people who aren't wearing a mask are doing so because "Trump said so?"

Of course not! They have their own stupid reasons for not wearing a mask.

He didn't enact a national mask mandate, or encourage states to mandate masks, or do anything really to make sure masks were enacted on a wide scale. He has actively denigrated masks and people who wear them. He politicized a novel virus, and has made it as toxic and divisive as abortion or any other hot button topic. He has minimized and talked **** about the experts and physicians. He has peddled ineffective drugs or fake treatments (injecting bleach and UV light). He has supported doctors who believe in "demon semen." He promotes radiologists who have absolutely no training in infectious diseases, epidemiology, or virology. He did not enact massive, wide spread testing. He did not make sure that all hospitals, SNFs, and medical facilities had adequate PPE. He has, at best, modeled bad behavior over and over and over again, and at worst actively promoted bad behavior. He is careless, his inner circle is careless, he and his family got COVID purely because of his stupidity and carelessness, and someone in his circle even died from it! His travel ban was ineffective and not widespread enough(this travel ban was actually warranted due to a virus, not because of racist, anti-muslim policies). He has subverted policies at every turn that could have been effective to curb the virus. There is a reason the US response to this pandemic has been so disastrous, and it starts with the abhorrent human being we have in the white house currently. I'm sure I've forgotten something there, but feel free to let me know if I missed anything.

And the next educated or intelligent person I meet who refuses to wear a mask will be the first. Take that for whatever you want..

(11-17-2020 06:59 PM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  He didn't enact a national mask mandate, or encourage states to mandate masks, or do anything really to make sure masks were enacted on a wide scale. He has actively denigrated masks and people who wear them. He politicized a novel virus, and has made it as toxic and divisive as abortion or any other hot button topic. He has minimized and talked **** about the experts and physicians. He has peddled ineffective drugs or fake treatments (injecting bleach and UV light). He has supported doctors who believe in "demon semen." He promotes radiologists who have absolutely no training in infectious diseases, epidemiology, or virology. He did not enact massive, wide spread testing. He did not make sure that all hospitals, SNFs, and medical facilities had adequate PPE. He has, at best, modeled bad behavior over and over and over again, and at worst actively promoted bad behavior. He is careless, his inner circle is careless, he and his family got COVID purely because of his stupidity and carelessness, and someone in his circle even died from it! His travel ban was ineffective and not widespread enough(this travel ban was actually warranted due to a virus, not because of racist, anti-muslim policies). He has subverted policies at every turn that could have been effective to curb the virus. There is a reason the US response to this pandemic has been so disastrous, and it starts with the abhorrent human being we have in the white house currently. I'm sure I've forgotten something there, but feel free to let me know if I missed anything.

And the first educated or intelligent person I meet who refuses to wear a mask will be the first. Take that for whatever you want..

I despise Donald Trump and I have since the late 1980's. But blaming Trump for what I agree has been a disastrous response absolves systemic failures at almost every level of our nation. The incompetence that has been revealed by this crisis is staggering and seems to be pervasive. Even with months and months of warning we were totally unprepared. We've looked like a bunch of ham-fisted fools to the rest of the planet and we're supposed to be leaders. Our basic competence has to be in question by our allies and enemies alike.

Trump is gonna end up the scapegoat but the blame goes way beyond any one person or organization. I think historians will look back on 2020 as a key year in the decline of the Pax Americana.

Even I agree it’s not 100% his fault. That would be myopic to suggest otherwise. But he is the president. The buck stops with him. He has done nothing, outside of a bipartisan/multifaceted project warp speed, to help. He has undercut the US effort to respond to the pandemic at every turn.