(11-12-2020 09:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 05:21 PM)TTT Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 12:43 PM)ThunderDrunk304 Wrote:  He chocked an assistant coach but I guess he’s just soft too right?

^this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You don't need evidence. All you need is the accusation. Sad.

According to the article, the coach unequivocally denies it. It's all alleged.

Again, if you don't like someone, all you have to do is allege something happened. It doesn't need to be proven. Just allege it and poof, they're gone.

Putin denies interfering with US elections. Many other people says he did.

All the allegations against Marshall were corroborated by witnesses. Maybe it’s a conspiracy but if he’s that disliked by people within the program then WSU is better off cutting ties anyway.

I’ve always felt where there’s smoke there’s fire. This isn’t a single accusation that is one persons word against another. This is a pattern of violent behavior, with witnesses. Marshall’s word means **** here.

Not in today's society, that may have been the case 20 years ago, but today, where there is smoke, you may see someone trying to start a fire instead of there being a a fire. Remember when all a woman had to do what scream rape until they found out it would actually be investigated? Today's kids are worse, if they don't get their way, they kick and scream and do what they can to change the outcome. Marshall turned WSU into the power they had become, they should be appreciative. What I do not see mentioned here is any investigation into the kid(s) disciplinary history. Where they disciplined before by Marshall and now it's revenge time? I wonder if universities would even bring up a kid's character in today's world. Too many unknowns to draw conclusions.

(11-13-2020 08:48 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 09:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 05:21 PM)TTT Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 12:43 PM)ThunderDrunk304 Wrote:  He chocked an assistant coach but I guess he’s just soft too right?

^this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You don't need evidence. All you need is the accusation. Sad.

According to the article, the coach unequivocally denies it. It's all alleged.

Again, if you don't like someone, all you have to do is allege something happened. It doesn't need to be proven. Just allege it and poof, they're gone.

Putin denies interfering with US elections. Many other people says he did.

All the allegations against Marshall were corroborated by witnesses. Maybe it’s a conspiracy but if he’s that disliked by people within the program then WSU is better off cutting ties anyway.

I’ve always felt where there’s smoke there’s fire. This isn’t a single accusation that is one persons word against another. This is a pattern of violent behavior, with witnesses. Marshall’s word means **** here.

Not in today's society, that may have been the case 20 years ago, but today, where there is smoke, you may see someone trying to start a fire instead of there being a a fire. Remember when all a woman had to do what scream rape until they found out it would actually be investigated? Today's kids are worse, if they don't get their way, they kick and scream and do what they can to change the outcome. Marshall turned WSU into the power they had become, they should be appreciative. What I do not see mentioned here is any investigation into the kid(s) disciplinary history. Where they disciplined before by Marshall and now it's revenge time? I wonder if universities would even bring up a kid's character in today's world. Too many unknowns to draw conclusions.

That's a lot of empty generalizations. There was an independent investigation the results of which are not public. Local newspapers were able to verify to the accusations through witnesses, not just of the player being punched but also the coach being choked.

(11-13-2020 08:59 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 08:48 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 09:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 05:21 PM)TTT Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 12:43 PM)ThunderDrunk304 Wrote:  He chocked an assistant coach but I guess he’s just soft too right?

^this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You don't need evidence. All you need is the accusation. Sad.

According to the article, the coach unequivocally denies it. It's all alleged.

Again, if you don't like someone, all you have to do is allege something happened. It doesn't need to be proven. Just allege it and poof, they're gone.

Putin denies interfering with US elections. Many other people says he did.

All the allegations against Marshall were corroborated by witnesses. Maybe it’s a conspiracy but if he’s that disliked by people within the program then WSU is better off cutting ties anyway.

I’ve always felt where there’s smoke there’s fire. This isn’t a single accusation that is one persons word against another. This is a pattern of violent behavior, with witnesses. Marshall’s word means **** here.

Not in today's society, that may have been the case 20 years ago, but today, where there is smoke, you may see someone trying to start a fire instead of there being a a fire. Remember when all a woman had to do what scream rape until they found out it would actually be investigated? Today's kids are worse, if they don't get their way, they kick and scream and do what they can to change the outcome. Marshall turned WSU into the power they had become, they should be appreciative. What I do not see mentioned here is any investigation into the kid(s) disciplinary history. Where they disciplined before by Marshall and now it's revenge time? I wonder if universities would even bring up a kid's character in today's world. Too many unknowns to draw conclusions.

That's a lot of empty generalizations. There was an independent investigation the results of which are not public. Local newspapers were able to verify to the accusations through witnesses, not just of the player being punched but also the coach being choked.

"Where there's smoke, there's fire" is usually true, but definitely not always. There are a lot of manipulative people out there in the world, and I can tell you that during my 25 years of teaching, I've twice been accused of doing something I never did by students who were upset with me. The second time it happened, the student even got her friends in class to go along with her accusation. There was an investigation and I was eventually found to be innocent.

I'd like to think that all investigations (independent or not) will eventually lead to the facts being revealed, I'm not sure that's the case 100% of the time though, at least not in the short term. And if they eventually come out much later, the damage has already been done, and that's sometimes unfortunately the motivation behind some wrongful accusations. Not saying these accusations are wrongful, as I don't know enough about it to comment one way or another. I'm just giving some input from my own experience as a math teacher/coach of 25 years.

Lots of opinions without much effort to look at facts. Watch the video at the first link. Also note that this was an exhibition game.

https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/...6406480896

https://theathletic.com/2123302/2020/10/...isconduct/

https://watchstadium.com/sources-wichita...0-08-2020/

"Among the allegations Stadium uncovered:

Marshall punched Morris in the head during a practice in October of 2015. “I love my teammates, the city and Wichita State,” said Morris, who played at Wichita State from 2014-18. “But if I could go back to that day when he punched me, I would have left.”

Marshall choked Lindsted, then a Shockers assistant coach, at a practice during the 2016-17 season, sources said. Lindsted, now an assistant at Minnesota, declined comment.

Marshall taunted junior forward Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, “to get back on his horse” and made “Indian howling noises” while in practice during the 2018-19 season.

Marshall body-shamed a former player by lifting his shirt up during a practice in the 2015-16 season, grabbing the player’s stomach and then mocking the player’s girth.

Of the 36 players and coaches Stadium interviewed, only Morris and former Wichita State guard Ty Taylor agreed to be identified for this report. The remaining individuals, who corroborated the allegations against Marshall, said they feared retribution and possible community backlash because of Marshall’s support and power in Wichita.

In the past two years, 10 players have transferred from Wichita State, including seven after last season. That’s nearly double the national average, and an unusually high number of defections for such a storied program. Each player Stadium contacted said Marshall’s treatment of players and coaches they experienced and witnessed was the primary reason for leaving the program. Stadium spoke to eight of the 10 players who left over the past two seasons."


This does not sound like a healthy program, not when players are fleeing at that rate. I mean, like *everyone* transferred from a team that was 23-8.

Go back and look at his record when he was at Winthorp. There has never been a low-major coach who did as well as he did without getting snapped up during the coaching carousel, year after year. The guy can coach ball, but he's a giant butthole, to phrase it kindly.

Marshall issued a statement back in early October when this first broke which didn't deny any of the allegations. He just said that his coaching style "is not for everyone."

He can't even pack it up and take his act to the pros, because those guys would punch him in the teeth.

(11-13-2020 09:34 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Lots of opinions without much effort to look at facts.

https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/...6406480896

Right?

(11-13-2020 08:59 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 08:48 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 09:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 05:21 PM)TTT Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 12:43 PM)ThunderDrunk304 Wrote:  He chocked an assistant coach but I guess he’s just soft too right?

^this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You don't need evidence. All you need is the accusation. Sad.

According to the article, the coach unequivocally denies it. It's all alleged.

Again, if you don't like someone, all you have to do is allege something happened. It doesn't need to be proven. Just allege it and poof, they're gone.

Putin denies interfering with US elections. Many other people says he did.

All the allegations against Marshall were corroborated by witnesses. Maybe it’s a conspiracy but if he’s that disliked by people within the program then WSU is better off cutting ties anyway.

I’ve always felt where there’s smoke there’s fire. This isn’t a single accusation that is one persons word against another. This is a pattern of violent behavior, with witnesses. Marshall’s word means **** here.

Not in today's society, that may have been the case 20 years ago, but today, where there is smoke, you may see someone trying to start a fire instead of there being a a fire. Remember when all a woman had to do what scream rape until they found out it would actually be investigated? Today's kids are worse, if they don't get their way, they kick and scream and do what they can to change the outcome. Marshall turned WSU into the power they had become, they should be appreciative. What I do not see mentioned here is any investigation into the kid(s) disciplinary history. Where they disciplined before by Marshall and now it's revenge time? I wonder if universities would even bring up a kid's character in today's world. Too many unknowns to draw conclusions.

That's a lot of empty generalizations. There was an independent investigation the results of which are not public. Local newspapers were able to verify to the accusations through witnesses, not just of the player being punched but also the coach being choked.

Everything I said still applies. So Marshall's word means nothing, the coach in question denied being choked, but it all happened because a kid and his friend(s) said it did. Again, where is the question of character for the accuser? As in any wrong doing case, the accuser gets to be questioned as the accused does. It happens now in court over rape, allegations of any wrong doing etc. That's not an empty generalization, it's an incomplete investigation. It would be also very wrong to assume kids today are the same as kids 20 years ago.

Did you watch the video above? How can you watch that and not admit that the problem might be Marshall grabbing someone by the throat while he was blind mad? He's obviously got anger management issues. That was an exhibition game, for god's sake.

An assistant coach who wants to keep working isn't going to make a statement about that, no way in hell. Get a rep as a guy who'd hang the head coach out to dry? Nah.

(11-13-2020 09:45 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 08:59 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 08:48 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 09:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 05:21 PM)TTT Wrote:  ^this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You don't need evidence. All you need is the accusation. Sad.

According to the article, the coach unequivocally denies it. It's all alleged.

Again, if you don't like someone, all you have to do is allege something happened. It doesn't need to be proven. Just allege it and poof, they're gone.

Putin denies interfering with US elections. Many other people says he did.

All the allegations against Marshall were corroborated by witnesses. Maybe it’s a conspiracy but if he’s that disliked by people within the program then WSU is better off cutting ties anyway.

I’ve always felt where there’s smoke there’s fire. This isn’t a single accusation that is one persons word against another. This is a pattern of violent behavior, with witnesses. Marshall’s word means **** here.

Not in today's society, that may have been the case 20 years ago, but today, where there is smoke, you may see someone trying to start a fire instead of there being a a fire. Remember when all a woman had to do what scream rape until they found out it would actually be investigated? Today's kids are worse, if they don't get their way, they kick and scream and do what they can to change the outcome. Marshall turned WSU into the power they had become, they should be appreciative. What I do not see mentioned here is any investigation into the kid(s) disciplinary history. Where they disciplined before by Marshall and now it's revenge time? I wonder if universities would even bring up a kid's character in today's world. Too many unknowns to draw conclusions.

That's a lot of empty generalizations. There was an independent investigation the results of which are not public. Local newspapers were able to verify to the accusations through witnesses, not just of the player being punched but also the coach being choked.

Everything I said still applies. So Marshall's word means nothing, the coach in question denied being choked, but it all happened because a kid and his friend(s) said it did. Again, where is the question of character for the accuser? As in any wrong doing case, the accuser gets to be questioned as the accused does. It happens now in court over rape, allegations of any wrong doing etc. That's not an empty generalization, it's an incomplete investigation. It would be also very wrong to assume kids today are the same as kids 20 years ago.

Where are you seeing Linsted denied being choked? Everywhere I'm reading is that he has made no public statement. The Wichita Eagle confirmed the allegation through unnamed sources though. But if you want to talk about character, Marshall's character is on full display and it doesn't support his denials.

"Lindsted, now an assistant at Minnesota, declined comment."

(11-13-2020 10:01 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Did you watch the video above? How can you watch that and not admit that the problem might be Marshall grabbing someone by the throat while he was blind mad? He's obviously got anger management issues. That was an exhibition game, for god's sake.

An assistant coach who wants to keep working isn't going to make a statement about that, no way in hell. Get a rep as a guy who'd hang the head coach out to dry? Nah.

Yes and I have seen his outbursts before at Winthrop. I think we all can say yes, he is bobby knight ish. My point still stands. An investigation is more than taking complaints from players past and present. I am saying the investigation is incomplete, the school firing him with "cause" could find themselves in legal trouble. Hear say without evidence is troublesome. He may have very well committed those crimes, he may have only committed a couple of the minor crimes, he could have committed all of them and it was exaggerated a bit. Physical proof over a physical altercation is usually required. If he punched a kid, I can bet it would leave a mark. If he choked a coach, another mark. If it wasn't done with evil intent and more of a horsing around type thing, no it won't leave a mark and begs to question why said accuser is being a baby. I am not taking up for Marshall, I am just saying what I see as an investigation incomplete.

What is your source for saying that the investigation is incomplete? Marshall has the support of Koch Brothers money, and they are hugely influential at Wichita. Do you seriously think that the school fires him without a full investigation? The story broke big in the Athletic first week of October. There have been several other reporters who dug into it and reported on the story. No university's lawyers are going to let them make a move like this without enough evidence to cover them in case of a lawsuit.

https://www.kwch.com/2020/10/09/report-w...isconduct/ Oct. 8

At this point his firing has not been confirmed by WSU. Until it is officially released it remains possible they won't sack him, but everything is pointing that way. No way in hell I believe that Wichita would fire a coach who is as successful as Marshall without very serious reasons.

The stories say he is expected to be fired by the end of the week. We'll see if that happens, but a guy with that sort of record (and contract) is not going to be pushed out for fluff. We're not talking about finding an excuse to fire an unsuccessful coach here.

(11-13-2020 10:46 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  What is your source for saying that the investigation is incomplete? Marshall has the support of Koch Brothers money, and they are hugely influential at Wichita. Do you seriously think that the school fires him without a full investigation? The story broke big in the Athletic first week of October. There have been several other reporters who dug into it and reported on the story. No university's lawyers are going to let them make a move like this without enough evidence to cover them in case of a lawsuit.

https://www.kwch.com/2020/10/09/report-w...isconduct/ Oct. 8

At this point his firing has not been confirmed by WSU. Until it is officially released it remains possible they won't sack him, but everything is pointing that way. No way in hell I believe that Wichita would fire a coach who is as successful as Marshall without very serious reasons.

The stories say he is expected to be fired by the end of the week. We'll see if that happens, but a guy with that sort of record (and contract) is not going to be pushed out for fluff. We're not talking about finding an excuse to fire an unsuccessful coach here.

Wouldn't be the first time someone was canned on an incomplete investigation. Like I said, the accused gets investigated, the accuser(s) should also have any related link investigated, like disciplined etc. to see if anything points to retribution. What about asking any of the other former assistants to see if the stories pan out? We only hear about one assistant and he declined to comment, what about the others? Hell, ask Donnie Jones, he worked under him. You don't think a public university wouldn't can someone who is giving them negative publicity? Been done before. You have your take in believing that its all been done, over with, verdict. I have my take in disagreeing that its all been done unless something pops up to show otherwise.

Nothing has been announced officially yet. Marshall has not appeared at practice all week.

I find the idea that the winningest coach in school history would not get a fair shake in an investigation ludicrous. If anything, such an investigation is more likely to be a whitewash than to railroad the coach. Generally, schools don't go out of their way to run off winning coaches, if anything they stick by them too long out of respect for their record.

We'll see.

(11-13-2020 10:08 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  "Lindsted, now an assistant at Minnesota, declined comment."

you do not decline comment if it did not happen

Gone.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...estigation