(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

Assuming Oklahoma leaves and Texas goes independent in football but everyone else stays, I’d be interested in who gets added. If they went back to 12, I’d add: Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Central Florida. The AAC would backfill with Southern Miss, UAB, Marshall, Appalachian St, and maybe Rice.

(10-25-2020 01:59 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

Assuming Oklahoma leaves and Texas goes independent in football but everyone else stays, I’d be interested in who gets added. If they went back to 12, I’d add: Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Central Florida. The AAC would backfill with Southern Miss, UAB, Marshall, Appalachian St, and maybe Rice.

Oklahoma's not going solo. They'll take either Kansas (Big Ten) or OSU (SEC) with them. So the Big 12 will likely need 3 replacements, which I expect would be Cincinnati, UCF, and USF. The AAC picks up FAU and FIU from CUSA, which, though chagrined, stands pat at 12, with UAB moving to the East.

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

The Big 12 is not going to be considered a P5 conference if Oklahoma leaves. Texas will not leave all of their non-football sports in a non-P5 conference while at the same time committing to play 5 football games a year against G5 teams.

(10-25-2020 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

The Big 12 is not going to be considered a P5 conference if Oklahoma leaves. Texas will not leave all of their non-football sports in a non-P5 conference while at the same time committing to play 5 football games a year against G5 teams.

In the likelier of the two "OU leaving" scenarios (i.e., to the SEC), OSU tags along, UT goes independent in FB while keeping its other sports in the Big 12, and 3 new members (Cincinnati, UCF, and one of USF, Memphis, Houston, or FB-only Boise/BYU) are added. The Big 12 will still have some decent tweener-level FB strength and will still be a P6 basketball conference like the Big East. I don't know if UT would commit to 5 FB games a year against the Big 12, but the conference will still have 3-4 other Texas schools that UT will still want to play.

(10-25-2020 03:57 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

The Big 12 is not going to be considered a P5 conference if Oklahoma leaves. Texas will not leave all of their non-football sports in a non-P5 conference while at the same time committing to play 5 football games a year against G5 teams.

In the likelier of the two "OU leaving" scenarios (i.e., to the SEC), OSU tags along, UT goes independent in FB while keeping its other sports in the Big 12, and 3 new members (Cincinnati, UCF, and one of USF, Memphis, Houston, or FB-only Boise/BYU) are added. The Big 12 will still have some decent tweener-level FB strength and will still be a P6 basketball conference like the Big East. I don't know if UT would commit to 5 FB games a year against the Big 12, but the conference will still have 3-4 other Texas schools that UT will still want to play.

You seem to be missing the point.
Texas is not going to put their basketball, baseball, women's athletics, and Olympic sports programs in a G level conference.

(10-25-2020 04:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 03:57 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

The Big 12 is not going to be considered a P5 conference if Oklahoma leaves. Texas will not leave all of their non-football sports in a non-P5 conference while at the same time committing to play 5 football games a year against G5 teams.

In the likelier of the two "OU leaving" scenarios (i.e., to the SEC), OSU tags along, UT goes independent in FB while keeping its other sports in the Big 12, and 3 new members (Cincinnati, UCF, and one of USF, Memphis, Houston, or FB-only Boise/BYU) are added. The Big 12 will still have some decent tweener-level FB strength and will still be a P6 basketball conference like the Big East. I don't know if UT would commit to 5 FB games a year against the Big 12, but the conference will still have 3-4 other Texas schools that UT will still want to play.

You seem to be missing the point.
Texas is not going to put their basketball, baseball, women's athletics, and Olympic sports programs in a G level conference.

You seem to be missing the point. The point is that while a Big 12 without OU and UT FB is certainly diminished, it is a unique tweener conference, meaning somewhere between P and G. It also contains the most powerful other Texas sports schools aside from A&M, so UT still has a vested interest in keeping its non-FB sports in place and retaining a close connection in FB. Not to mention that going to somewhere like the SEC means that UT would have to share more of their power (to A&M as well as OU, LSU, Alabama, etc.), which seems undesirable to UT. FB independence would work for UT quite well.

(10-25-2020 04:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 04:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 03:57 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

The Big 12 is not going to be considered a P5 conference if Oklahoma leaves. Texas will not leave all of their non-football sports in a non-P5 conference while at the same time committing to play 5 football games a year against G5 teams.

In the likelier of the two "OU leaving" scenarios (i.e., to the SEC), OSU tags along, UT goes independent in FB while keeping its other sports in the Big 12, and 3 new members (Cincinnati, UCF, and one of USF, Memphis, Houston, or FB-only Boise/BYU) are added. The Big 12 will still have some decent tweener-level FB strength and will still be a P6 basketball conference like the Big East. I don't know if UT would commit to 5 FB games a year against the Big 12, but the conference will still have 3-4 other Texas schools that UT will still want to play.

You seem to be missing the point.
Texas is not going to put their basketball, baseball, women's athletics, and Olympic sports programs in a G level conference.

You seem to be missing the point. The point is that while a Big 12 without OU and UT FB is certainly diminished, it is a unique tweener conference, meaning somewhere between P and G. It also contains the most powerful other Texas sports schools aside from A&M, so UT still has a vested interest in keeping its non-FB sports in place and retaining a close connection in FB. Not to mention that going to somewhere like the SEC means that UT would have to share more of their power (to A&M as well as OU, LSU, Alabama, etc.), which seems undesirable to UT. FB independence would work for UT quite well.

I don't know who the nodding fellow with the OU hat is, but I assume that means you concede my point.

(10-25-2020 05:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I don't know who the nodding fellow with the OU hat is, but I assume that means you concede my point.

Unique tweener conference....

(10-25-2020 01:59 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 01:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas wants to both be master of their conference and keep their cash to themselves.

They can’t bully the ACC around the way they can the Big 12 and while a lot of the football poet would be sucked out of the Big 12 if they lost Oklahoma, they are still a very respectable conference in basketball.

If Oklahoma decides to leave but Texas is not interested in giving in to another P5, Texas football will go independent, while everything else stays in the Big 12.

This model will work because the Longhorns should easily be able to sell T1 and T2 rights to someone, likely the Mouse, and get top dollar.

Big name schools from the P4 will still line up to play the Horns. Why lock yourself into a deal that means playing football games at BC, Cuse, WF, and Duke when you can go straight to the schools you want to play—Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT and sign. A series of Home and Homes?

Your Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington types are also going to be willing to supply 2 game series and probably even some of the big name SEC schools too.

Mid tier P4s and the better instate schools wouldn’t hesitate to do 2 for 1s with a name like Texas.

Assuming Oklahoma leaves and Texas goes independent in football but everyone else stays, I’d be interested in who gets added. If they went back to 12, I’d add: Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and Central Florida. The AAC would backfill with Southern Miss, UAB, Marshall, Appalachian St, and maybe Rice.

Don’t sleep on USF as a Big 12 replacement down the road. I think they are fighting Memphis for spot #4 in the event that the Big 12 loses 4 members.

Honestly though, if Oklahoma and a plus depart for another conference and Texas football goes Indy with an Olympic deal with the Big 12 the Big 12 will only bring in 2 replacements to try and prevent their payouts from getting diluted.

(10-25-2020 06:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 05:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I don't know who the nodding fellow with the OU hat is, but I assume that means you concede my point.

Unique tweener conference....

A conference like the below, primarily composed of current P5 schools, would be considered a tweener, not like anything that presently exists, and closer to a power FB conference than the AAC is right now.

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, South Florida, West Virginia
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas Tech
Non-FB: Texas

By the way, I am greatly amused by mockery coming from one who believes Texas to the ACC is an indisputable lock, so thank you for that.

(10-25-2020 07:20 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 06:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2020 05:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I don't know who the nodding fellow with the OU hat is, but I assume that means you concede my point.

Unique tweener conference....

A conference like the below, primarily composed of current P5 schools, would be considered a tweener, not like anything that presently exists, and closer to a power FB conference than the AAC is right now.

East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Iowa State, South Florida, West Virginia
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas Tech
Non-FB: Texas

By the way, I am greatly amused by mockery coming from one who believes Texas to the ACC is an indisputable lock, so thank you for that.

You're Welcome.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that OU really does leave the Big XII (perhaps with one other team) and that Texas prefers to stay in the Big XII (8? SWC-2?) for all sports except football, in which it would be independent... what's to say they wouldn't want a 5-game scheduling agreement with the ACC in exchange for non-NY6 bowl access? In that scenario, Texas doesn't actually join the ACC, it's just an "associate" member. It could happen.

Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

(10-31-2020 10:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

Despite some of the poll options, I think the intent here was for realistic adds, and no school is going to move from the SEC to the ACC.

South Carolina must be looking at Clemson with envy. I'd certainly take less TV dollars (to a certain extent) for a clearer path to the playoffs and national championship game.

(10-31-2020 11:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 10:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

Despite some of the poll options, I think the intent here was for realistic adds, and no school is going to move from the SEC to the ACC.

None of these options are realistic, hence why they haven’t happened.

(10-31-2020 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 11:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 10:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

Despite some of the poll options, I think the intent here was for realistic adds, and no school is going to move from the SEC to the ACC.

None of these options are realistic, hence why they haven’t happened.

Just because something hasn't yet happened doesn't mean it's an unrealistic possibility.

(10-31-2020 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 11:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 10:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

Despite some of the poll options, I think the intent here was for realistic adds, and no school is going to move from the SEC to the ACC.

None of these options are realistic, hence why they haven’t happened.

If Disney pays for it, a number of schools in the SEC or ACC might swap. But Disney has to pay for it, and the result has to make both conferences happy so that's 30 moving parts. NC State, VT, FSU, KY, SC, Vandy, Mizzou, and UF could all move a little - or not at all. The SEC has brought their academic profiles up and the ACC has brought it's down enough to make the difference not that drastic.

Is anything likely - of course not. Is anything possible - yep.

(10-31-2020 12:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 11:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 10:55 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well I couldn't let this thread go any longer without mentioning that the most logical 16th member of the ACC is South Carolina.
Geographic fit (the ACC needs another school south of North Carolina to help re-balance the north/south split).
Cultural fit.....South Carolina (the state) is easy to make fun of, but since we already have Clemson....many of the same jokes apply.
Big stadium school with rabid fan base......ACC's #1 priority for football.
Moves the incursion of the SEC further away.
South Carolina's jerseys are the exact color as Alabama and Arkansas which causes great confusion in the SEC. The ACC has no other school that uses that shade of red....so they have that goin' for them!

Despite some of the poll options, I think the intent here was for realistic adds, and no school is going to move from the SEC to the ACC.

None of these options are realistic, hence why they haven’t happened.

If Disney pays for it, a number of schools in the SEC or ACC might swap. But Disney has to pay for it, and the result has to make both conferences happy so that 30 moving parts.

If the ACC wants an SEC member, why waste it on one of their irrelevant teams? Go for one of their big guns! Go for Florida! Or if you're going for hoops, Kentucky.

Clemson for Kentucky is the obvious swap which would benefit ESPN as it would make SEC football and ACC men's basketball the undisputed dominant conferences. But that trade extremely favors the SEC. Clemson for Florida still gives the ACC a strong football member, a great men's basketball member, and the ACC would have the top three Florida FBS schools while the SEC would be shut out of the Sunshine State entirely. Would they be willing to give up Florida for Clemson? Would the ACC be willing to give up their national championship ticket every year to own the state of Florida? Clemson won't be great forever. Maybe do the double trade of Clemson and Georgia Tech to the SEC for Florida and Kentucky. SEC men's basketball would be a mid major.