That was fast. Men's sports that were cut are still TBD.

(10-19-2020 01:43 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  That was fast. Men's sports that were cut are still TBD.

News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

William & Mary Athletics Community,

Earlier this month, I laid out for our community the overlapping frames of the challenge faced by William & Mary Athletics – gender equity, budget stability and institutional identity. At that time, I noted equity as the most concrete given the need to comply with federal law. 

 

For decades, achieving gender equity has eluded William & Mary Athletics. As enrollments shifted, it became increasingly clear that any pathway to equity would require rebalancing participation opportunities – an incredibly difficult conclusion given the remarkable young people who are our student-athletes. In the present moment, and with the in-depth review prompted by a pending lawsuit, we will take the actions necessary to provide an equitable foundation for William & Mary Athletics moving forward.  

 

Since becoming interim athletics director, many have made clear to me the need for prompt and definitive action for the seven sports announced for discontinuation on September 3. Today William & Mary provided such clarity in announcing that:  

After further review conducted in response to an impending lawsuit, it was determined that the discontinuations and related roster adjustments for remaining sports were not likely to accomplish the goal of equity in participation by next fall.  

Women’s gymnastics,  women’s  swimming and women’s volleyball will continue as NCAA Division I sports, and we look forward to working to seeing these programs thrive.  

In addition, we will undertake a gender equity review in the current year, creating broad opportunities for members of the community to engage.  

 

In combination, these actions make meaningful progress toward substantial proportionality and provide the equitable foundation from which William & Mary Athletics can move forward.  

 

We now know,  as a result   of this step, reduction in men’s participation via roster management and suspending teams, or a swift and significant increase in participation opportunities for women will be necessary. We will be engaging the broader William & Mary community to receive input and ideas and to explain the magnitude of this challenge, which offers no easy pathway to restore the four men’s programs this year. Yet we remain committed to swiftly continuing those conversations with alumni and supporters in order to arrive at a decision for the 2021-2022 academic year.  

 

Having assured an equitable pathway forward for W&M Athletics, we continue to face pressing budget matters as well as the need to provide ongoing financial stability. The Tribe Club board has been working diligently alongside department staff to better understand these issues as well as creating a  better shared  understanding of competitive excellence for William & Mary.  

 

On Wednesday, we will share more about W&M Athletics finances to increase our community’s awareness of the constraints and the magnitude of the challenges faced. Please join us Wednesday at 7pm for this conversation. 

 

Sincerely,  

Jeremy  

 

Jeremy P. Martin Ph.D. ’12 MBA ’17  

Interim Director of Athletics  



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

(10-19-2020 01:59 PM)Tribal Wrote:  William & Mary Athletics Community,

Earlier this month, I laid out for our community the overlapping frames of the challenge faced by William & Mary Athletics – gender equity, budget stability and institutional identity. At that time, I noted equity as the most concrete given the need to comply with federal law. 

 

For decades, achieving gender equity has eluded William & Mary Athletics. As enrollments shifted, it became increasingly clear that any pathway to equity would require rebalancing participation opportunities – an incredibly difficult conclusion given the remarkable young people who are our student-athletes. In the present moment, and with the in-depth review prompted by a pending lawsuit, we will take the actions necessary to provide an equitable foundation for William & Mary Athletics moving forward.  

 

Since becoming interim athletics director, many have made clear to me the need for prompt and definitive action for the seven sports announced for discontinuation on September 3. Today William & Mary provided such clarity in announcing that:  

After further review conducted in response to an impending lawsuit, it was determined that the discontinuations and related roster adjustments for remaining sports were not likely to accomplish the goal of equity in participation by next fall.  

Women’s gymnastics,  women’s  swimming and women’s volleyball will continue as NCAA Division I sports, and we look forward to working to seeing these programs thrive.  

In addition, we will undertake a gender equity review in the current year, creating broad opportunities for members of the community to engage.  

 

In combination, these actions make meaningful progress toward substantial proportionality and provide the equitable foundation from which William & Mary Athletics can move forward.  

 

We now know,  as a result   of this step, reduction in men’s participation via roster management and suspending teams, or a swift and significant increase in participation opportunities for women will be necessary. We will be engaging the broader William & Mary community to receive input and ideas and to explain the magnitude of this challenge, which offers no easy pathway to restore the four men’s programs this year. Yet we remain committed to swiftly continuing those conversations with alumni and supporters in order to arrive at a decision for the 2021-2022 academic year.  

 

Having assured an equitable pathway forward for W&M Athletics, we continue to face pressing budget matters as well as the need to provide ongoing financial stability. The Tribe Club board has been working diligently alongside department staff to better understand these issues as well as creating a  better shared  understanding of competitive excellence for William & Mary.  

 

On Wednesday, we will share more about W&M Athletics finances to increase our community’s awareness of the constraints and the magnitude of the challenges faced. Please join us Wednesday at 7pm for this conversation. 

 

Sincerely,  

Jeremy  

 

Jeremy P. Martin Ph.D. ’12 MBA ’17  

Interim Director of Athletics  



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

The reasoning is not that suprising. Defending a Title IX lawsuit would be very expensive and be bad PR.

I wonder what the men's "roster management and suspending teams" would look like. Some of the men's teams better hope that rowing and/or softball teams really do come to fruition. Going to need all kinds of new donations now.

(10-19-2020 01:48 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

I'm having trouble understanding what part of Title IX this is helping with.

Interesting outcome. Women's teams are back, no clear path for the Men's. I suppose a "successful" move by the women's teams, but in a way it flies in the face of what the Tribe7 claim to be all about.

I have a weird cognitive dissonance with this turn.

(10-19-2020 02:07 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 01:48 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

I'm having trouble understanding what part of Title IX this is helping with.

I'm responding, but if you posted this before seeing the press release, ignore it .

Seems straight forward to me? By reinstating the women's teams, but not the men's teams it shifts the meter pretty clearly?

(10-19-2020 02:07 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 01:48 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

I'm having trouble understanding what part of Title IX this is helping with.

It's the equal opportunities part. The part where one way you can be in compliance is by showing your male/female athletics participation numbers are within 2% of your male/female student population numbers. W&M is majority female as a school (58%) but has been at around 54% male athletes/46% female athletes. So to meet that 2% variance it needs more female athletes and less male athletes.

(10-19-2020 02:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 02:07 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 01:48 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

I'm having trouble understanding what part of Title IX this is helping with.

I'm responding, but if you posted this before seeing the press release, ignore it .

Seems straight forward to me? By reinstating the women's teams, but not the men's teams it shifts the meter pretty clearly?

Doesn't it shift the meter too far in the other direction with regards to allocation?

(10-19-2020 02:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 02:07 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 01:48 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  News release apparently says it was in response to threatened Title IX lawsuit. Haven't seen the release yet.

I'm having trouble understanding what part of Title IX this is helping with.

I'm responding, but if you posted this before seeing the press release, ignore it .

Seems straight forward to me? By reinstating the women's teams, but not the men's teams it shifts the meter pretty clearly?

Correct. Cutting the 7 teams actually helped the participation numbers some, but not enough. So keeping the men's cuts and reinstating the women's teams gets them there. To reinstate the men's teams they either need to (1) cut some other men's teams, (2) reduce roster spots available on some men's teams, (3) or add some new women's teams.

I think at this point I'm just gonna hold off on having any strong opinions for like a month, and we'll see how everything plays out when it's all said and done.

(10-19-2020 02:28 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I think at this point I'm just gonna hold off on having any strong opinions for like a month, and we'll see how everything plays out when it's all said and done.

Yeah, I probably responded with my immediate thoughts too quickly as this has been my stance all along.. .the problems of trying to avoid work projects .

Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

I don't see the competition reducing football numbers. One more disadvantage.

We should find it some other way !

Yeah, this is pretty clearly a bad sign for the discontinued men's programs. Obviously a lot could happen in the next month or so, but I would not be surprised if this is where we end up -- with the four men's teams actually cut at the end of the 2020-21 academic year.

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

Is that to maintain the 4 men's sports that were cut, or in order to maintain the 4 men's sports that were cut?

If it's in addition to the men's sports that were cut, hoo boy...

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

Those would be roster spots, not scholarships. W&M can only award 63 football scholarships. I think it's only roster sports for cross country also.

I honestly don't think reducing roster spots in football is that big of an issue.

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

Don't understand the football reduction. They have 62 or something like that I believe which can be split. What does from 105 to 95 mean?

Nevermind - Old Tribe answered before I hit send but after I started typing

(10-19-2020 02:47 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

Is that to maintain the 4 men's sports that were cut, or in order to maintain the 4 men's sports that were cut?

If it's in addition to the men's sports that were cut, hoo boy...

I believe it's in addition to the men's sports that were cut.

(10-19-2020 02:49 PM)tribe_pride Wrote:  

(10-19-2020 02:36 PM)billymac Wrote:  Reportedly, football will reduce scholarships from 105 to 95 (four years) and Cross Country to lose 4 scholarships.

Don't understand the football reduction. They have 62 or something like that I believe which can be split. What does from 105 to 95 mean?

Roster spots. So will have fewer walk-ons.