Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

Doug Marrone?

(10-12-2020 07:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

Doug Marrone?

Doug Marrone did quite well at SU. He did well at turning things around quickly. And he did it with mostly NYS talent. He produced some decent NFL talent too. The problem with Marrone is that his ego is too big for Syracuse, or any other college program because he wants to be in the NFL, so therefore he cant be trusted to stay. He said that SU was his dream job. He played at SU when they were a fixture in the top 20. He and Nathanial Hackett had our offense blowing up defenses. But since he fired Hackett when he was the HC for the Jaguars, I dont think he will ever be able to get the band back together again.

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

Babers reminds me of Mike London’s tenure at UVA. A compelling personality for players and the university. They both had one excellent season interspersed with a lot of mediocrity and bad football. If the analogy holds, Babers will coach through 2021 but Syracuse won’t be better-off for their patience.

Syracuse should have a higher floor than BC, WFU and Duke. Although, BC consistently fights above their weight-level (reliable over-achievers in football). Addazio consistently got his teams into bowls, yet BC didn’t renew his contract)...there is just an expectation that football should win more than 6 to 8 games per year.

With the money that football generates and coaches earn, Syracuse needs to make the hard choice and move on. The real issue is whether Syracuse has an AD who is capable of selecting and supporting a better coach.

(10-12-2020 03:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

Babers reminds me of Mike London’s tenure at UVA. A compelling personality for players and the university. They both had one excellent season interspersed with a lot of mediocrity and bad football. If the analogy holds, Babers will coach through 2021 but Syracuse won’t be better-off for their patience.

Syracuse should have a higher floor than BC, WFU and Duke. Although, BC consistently fights above their weight-level (reliable over-achievers in football). Addazio consistently got his teams into bowls, yet BC didn’t renew his contract)...there is just an expectation that football should win more than 6 to 8 games per year.

With the money that football generates and coaches earn, Syracuse needs to make the hard choice and move on. The real issue is whether Syracuse has an AD who is capable of selecting and supporting a better coach.

How many ACC games should Syracuse expect to win per year? And why, given that football is a zero sum game? As long as Clemson continues to win at such a high level, every other team in the league should expect a long term average below 4 conference wins a year. Unless the Orange are going to schedule four cupcakes a year OOC, expecting 8 wins year after year seems optimistic.

Syracuse has lost their Top QB
The OL has been in shambles due to injuries and medical DQs. We are playing a FB on the OL. We have walk-ons playing on the defense. Lost our AA Safety...just snakebit.

Two new coordinators this year.

Dino will get '21 to right the ship.

His biggest issue is not getting another 4 star QB and better Wars

Cuse is a development program like about 8 of the other ACC teams. Recruiting misses and injuries kill teams like Cuse

(10-13-2020 05:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-12-2020 03:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

Babers reminds me of Mike London’s tenure at UVA. A compelling personality for players and the university. They both had one excellent season interspersed with a lot of mediocrity and bad football. If the analogy holds, Babers will coach through 2021 but Syracuse won’t be better-off for their patience.

Syracuse should have a higher floor than BC, WFU and Duke. Although, BC consistently fights above their weight-level (reliable over-achievers in football). Addazio consistently got his teams into bowls, yet BC didn’t renew his contract)...there is just an expectation that football should win more than 6 to 8 games per year.

With the money that football generates and coaches earn, Syracuse needs to make the hard choice and move on. The real issue is whether Syracuse has an AD who is capable of selecting and supporting a better coach.

How many ACC games should Syracuse expect to win per year? And why, given that football is a zero sum game? As long as Clemson continues to win at such a high level, every other team in the league should expect a long term average below 4 conference wins a year. Unless the Orange are going to schedule four cupcakes a year OOC, expecting 8 wins year after year seems optimistic.

The realistic expectation for Syracuse should be in the 6 to 9 win per season range. Scheduling OOC should result in 3 wins per season.

Babers won 4, 4, 10 & 5 games in his first 4 seasons...and has a 1 - 3 record this year. First year was fine. Second year was tolerable - they played better, but their record was disappointing. 2018 was outstanding with a bowl victory that got them the double digits in victories. Year 4 was worrisome because he’s had time to build the roster. The tougher, shorter schedule this year means that 5 - 8 wins is OK...the slow start means that year 5 is now at risk.

The trend is the problem. By years 4 & 5 the roster and schedules are fully owned by the coach. Unfortunately, the Orange have not looked good these past two years. He needs to win at least 4 more games this year to stabilize his tenure.

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that Babers had always been a coach who won off of what other people built instead of being a program builder himself. In fact Syracuse is his first attempt at building a program since he only stayed at his previous two stops two years each.

What should raise huge red flags is the massive drop off that happened at both Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green after Babers left. A drop off like those can be explained away if it only happened once but it’s happened twice.

(10-14-2020 08:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that Babers had always been a coach who won off of what other people built instead of being a program builder himself. In fact Syracuse is his first attempt at building a program since he only stayed at his previous two stops two years each.

What should raise huge red flags is the massive drop off that happened at both Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green after Babers left. A drop off like those can be explained away if it only happened once but it’s happened twice.

We'll see. Dungey covered up a ton of warts

The new Dome improvements will help recruiting. The center hung scoreboard is actually quite impressive and full A/C should be done by next summer. More improvements are coming in Phase 2 (if it survives Covid hysteria)

2018 - 10 & 3 season with a bowl win gets him through 2021. This Covid-19 season is too screwy with players in and out to count much against him if he has a losing season. Think he gets a mulligan like most coaches this season unless they were in the gunsights of boosters and administrators going into the season. Haven't read anything negative about him to this point so it JMO that he is save through 2021. By the way what is his buyout over the 2020 and 2021 seasons including his staff. Can Syracuse afford any of those buyouts at this time with the current revenue hits due to Covid-19.

(10-14-2020 12:03 PM)panite Wrote:  2018 - 10 & 3 season with a bowl win gets him through 2021. This Covid-19 season is too screwy with players in and out to count much against him if he has a losing season. Think he gets a mulligan like most coaches this season unless they were in the gunsights of boosters and administrators going into the season. Haven't read anything negative about him to this point so it JMO that he is save through 2021. By the way what is his buyout over the 2020 and 2021 seasons including his staff. Can Syracuse afford any of those buyouts at this time with the current revenue hits due to Covid-19.

I dont think his buyout details are public. His annual salary is estimated to be about $4 million per year. After that 2018 season his salary was bumped to $4 million and his contract was renegotiated, reportedly.

(10-14-2020 12:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-14-2020 12:03 PM)panite Wrote:  2018 - 10 & 3 season with a bowl win gets him through 2021. This Covid-19 season is too screwy with players in and out to count much against him if he has a losing season. Think he gets a mulligan like most coaches this season unless they were in the gunsights of boosters and administrators going into the season. Haven't read anything negative about him to this point so it JMO that he is save through 2021. By the way what is his buyout over the 2020 and 2021 seasons including his staff. Can Syracuse afford any of those buyouts at this time with the current revenue hits due to Covid-19.

I dont think his buyout details are public. His annual salary is estimated to be about $4 million per year. After that 2018 season his salary was bumped to $4 million and his contract was renegotiated, reportedly.

USA Today has Dino's salary at $3.2 million.

List Of Coaches Salaries

(10-15-2020 08:04 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-14-2020 12:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-14-2020 12:03 PM)panite Wrote:  2018 - 10 & 3 season with a bowl win gets him through 2021. This Covid-19 season is too screwy with players in and out to count much against him if he has a losing season. Think he gets a mulligan like most coaches this season unless they were in the gunsights of boosters and administrators going into the season. Haven't read anything negative about him to this point so it JMO that he is save through 2021. By the way what is his buyout over the 2020 and 2021 seasons including his staff. Can Syracuse afford any of those buyouts at this time with the current revenue hits due to Covid-19.

I dont think his buyout details are public. His annual salary is estimated to be about $4 million per year. After that 2018 season his salary was bumped to $4 million and his contract was renegotiated, reportedly.

USA Today has Dino's salary at $3.2 million.

List Of Coaches Salaries

That Michigan buyout of Jim Harbaugh is quite reasonable.

I'm surprised to see that VT has the 2nd highest salary in the ACC behind Clemson. VT may be way behind the SEC and other conferences that might come looking for a coach, but we're very competitive with our peers.

Cuse down to under 60 scholarship players...big part of the problem.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...ssion=true

Submitted for your twisted pleasure...

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

I think your final thought is a little over-the-top. Just because one guy can't deliver doesn't mean that noone else can.

Syracuse has a proud tradition, and a large fan base. I am sure that there's a coach that can turn things around.

Football is pretty cyclical. Clemson the last 10 years has been unreal. But the ten years before that, they bounced between 6 and 5, and 9 and 5, never getting double digit wins in that time period.

The Cuse will be back. And sticking with them during the hard times, make the good times, that much sweeter.

Hang in there.

(10-26-2020 01:49 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(10-12-2020 01:26 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Year 5 of coach Babers and Syracuse football is still in shambles. We can’t recruit and can’t even get to the level WF,UVA,Pitt and BC achieve year in and year out. I know SU will never leave the ACC but damn we should let a UCF or Houston have our spot at the big boy table because it’s obvious SU football is going no where. If Dino can’t get it going after 5 years , I don’t think any coach can.

I think your final thought is a little over-the-top. Just because one guy can't deliver doesn't mean that noone else can.

Syracuse has a proud tradition, and a large fan base. I am sure that there's a coach that can turn things around.

Football is pretty cyclical. Clemson the last 10 years has been unreal. But the ten years before that, they bounced between 6 and 5, and 9 and 5, never getting double digit wins in that time period.

The Cuse will be back. And sticking with them during the hard times, make the good times, that much sweeter.

Hang in there.

Great Post Pervis. Some folks say that SU wont ever be able to get back to their 80's and 90's success because things have changed in college fb. I disagree with that thoughts process. Babers has shown that he has the potential to turn things around. I would like to see him survive, for one, because he is the only minority HC in the ACC, and because this year is unique because of all thats going on. He has a roster of less than 60 players every week, with no depth, and I recently learned that the SU roster is now 45% freshmen and redshirt freshmen. But what I have been seeing from all those freshmen that are getting a shot to play is really impressive. I would like to see Babers get one more year to bring it all together. With all the experience that these freshmen are getting, along with all the experienced players coming back from injuries next season Im excited to see what happens next season. I have given up on this season.

Now if Babers doesnt turn it around after next season, he should be gone. No question about it. Then I want to see Joe Moorehead take over. He is a northeastern guy with all kinds of northeast connections. He would be perfect for SU. I hope he is available if we need him.

Babers has had 4 full recruiting cycles to build depth on this team, so why are we still struggling with depth and playing so many freshman. He has had multiple years to build up a solid offensive line and depth at LB and QB . Yet here we are , he has already failed at the most important aspect of college football recruiting.

(10-27-2020 07:47 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Babers has had 4 full recruiting cycles to build depth on this team, so why are we still struggling with depth and playing so many freshman. He has had multiple years to build up a solid offensive line and depth at LB and QB . Yet here we are , he has already failed at the most important aspect of college football recruiting.

Bad luck mostly: long term injuries, medical DQs, a few transfers and several Covid sit outs

(10-27-2020 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 07:47 AM)PusherT Wrote:  Babers has had 4 full recruiting cycles to build depth on this team, so why are we still struggling with depth and playing so many freshman. He has had multiple years to build up a solid offensive line and depth at LB and QB . Yet here we are , he has already failed at the most important aspect of college football recruiting.

Bad luck mostly: long term injuries, medical DQs, a few transfers and several Covid sit outs

Mark,

Any thoughts on who would be good for SU if Babers cant get things going after 2021?