(09-22-2020 10:00 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 09:07 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 08:25 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 07:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Nowhere in that statement does JMU advise sick, COVID positive, or presumed positive patients/students to go home. That's your inference you are making. That statement was a directive to decrease the population center of the JMU community. Individuals who were sick or showing symptoms received instruction to remain in place or stay in their University provided isolation room.

"Students that live both on and off campus are being asked to return home, to their families, if possible to isolate and/or quarantine."

Deez, this policy was in place to start the semester. I can only assume you’re mistakenly thinking this was a policy that was announced hand in hand with the suspension of in-person learning. It was not.

I want to make sure we’re on the same page with that fact before I attempt to further unpack your above claim.

Yeah it seems like the confusion is that when you saw "go home and quarantine" you read "students who are sick go home and quarantine" my understanding was that sick students and those already in quarantine on campus were told to stay but they asked every student who went home, those who were not sick or positive, to quarantine for 10 days to prevent them from spreading it to the communities they were coming back from.

I think the confusion may have been in how you read it. You were reading it as they were asking sick students and I think they actually meant all non-sick/positive students should quarantine when getting home and the sick ones continue their quarantine on campus.

At least that is how I read it.

When there is a huge outbreak, I would assume there were tons of students that had it when they were sent home - even if they were not showing symptoms or where not quarantined.

Which is why JMU advised them to isolate/quarantine/socially distance themselves when they returned home. If that wasn't possible, or there was greater risk (such as a student living with a grandparent or an old person, or a student's household had someone that was at an elevated risk for something other than age, or "a number of reasons"), JMU was accommodating and found those students a place to stay in H'burg. Nobody that actually read the multiple statements made by JMU should be confused about what happened.

(09-22-2020 10:08 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 10:00 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 09:07 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 08:25 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 07:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Nowhere in that statement does JMU advise sick, COVID positive, or presumed positive patients/students to go home. That's your inference you are making. That statement was a directive to decrease the population center of the JMU community. Individuals who were sick or showing symptoms received instruction to remain in place or stay in their University provided isolation room.

"Students that live both on and off campus are being asked to return home, to their families, if possible to isolate and/or quarantine."

Deez, this policy was in place to start the semester. I can only assume you’re mistakenly thinking this was a policy that was announced hand in hand with the suspension of in-person learning. It was not.

I want to make sure we’re on the same page with that fact before I attempt to further unpack your above claim.

Yeah it seems like the confusion is that when you saw "go home and quarantine" you read "students who are sick go home and quarantine" my understanding was that sick students and those already in quarantine on campus were told to stay but they asked every student who went home, those who were not sick or positive, to quarantine for 10 days to prevent them from spreading it to the communities they were coming back from.

I think the confusion may have been in how you read it. You were reading it as they were asking sick students and I think they actually meant all non-sick/positive students should quarantine when getting home and the sick ones continue their quarantine on campus.

At least that is how I read it.

When there is a huge outbreak, I would assume there were tons of students that had it when they were sent home - even if they were not showing symptoms or where not quarantined.

Which is why JMU advised them to isolate/quarantine/socially distance themselves when they returned home. If that wasn't possible, or there was greater risk (such as a student living with a grandparent or an old person, or a student's household had someone that was at an elevated risk for something other than age, or "a number of reasons"), JMU was accommodating and found those students a place to stay in H'burg. Nobody that actually read the multiple statements made by JMU should be confused about what happened.

Agree 100%.

If parents that have students and current students actually read the full content of email communications sent directly from JMU there should be zero confusion.

I wonder how much of this confusion is from:
- Folks without students therefore don't have full specific communications from JMU
- Folks that don't read the full email communications
- Folks that just don't care for the way JMU chose to handle things so want to complain, play dumb, and play monday morning QB

In hindsight JMU should have simply done like every other state college in VA and not reported on any cases that were not tested via the university health center. For some reason JMU went against the grain and chose to include self-reporting which it seems no other state colleges in VA have chosen to do.

Bottom line though no parents of students or actual students should have any confusion on this topic as it was communicated multiple times completely by JMU.

U.S. reportedly has passed the 200K death toll total today. Back when they projected 100K, I thought to myself "no way". Then, when they said 200K, I thought "come on, no way". Now, some are saying over quarter of a million by Thanksgiving, perhaps much more. I don't think I'll say "no way" this time around.

Just so sad no matter what your views on this thing are. Damn. Just damn.

(09-22-2020 10:54 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  U.S. reportedly has passed the 200K death toll total today. Back when they projected 100K, I thought to myself "no way". Then, when they said 200K, I thought "come on, no way". Now, some are saying over quarter of a million by Thanksgiving, perhaps much more. I don't think I'll say "no way" this time around.

Just so sad no matter what your views on this thing are. Damn. Just damn.

250k by Thanksgiving seems, unfortunately, pretty optimistic right now.

(09-22-2020 09:07 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  I think the confusion may have been in how you read it. You were reading it as they were asking sick students and I think they actually meant all non-sick/positive students should quarantine when getting home and the sick ones continue their quarantine on campus.

(09-22-2020 10:00 AM)Dukester Wrote:  When there is a huge outbreak, I would assume there were tons of students that had it when they were sent home - even if they were not showing symptoms or where not quarantined.

(09-22-2020 10:08 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  Which is why JMU advised them to isolate/quarantine/socially distance themselves when they returned home. If that wasn't possible, or there was greater risk (such as a student living with a grandparent or an old person, or a student's household had someone that was at an elevated risk for something other than age, or "a number of reasons"), JMU was accommodating and found those students a place to stay in H'burg. Nobody that actually read the multiple statements made by JMU should be confused about what happened.

Okay for the last time before I get a flippin' aneurysm.

This is the statement that was live when the JMU Stop The Spread COVID page went live at least as early as August 27:

"Students that live both on and off campus are being asked to return home, to their families, if possible to isolate and/or quarantine. If an on-campus student is unable to return home for any number of reasons, the university will use these locally available spaces to isolate and/or quarantine."

FOR EVERYONE WHO SEEMS TO BE ACTING AS THOUGH THIS GUIDANCE APPLIED SPECIFICALLY TO THE SEPTEMBER 1 GUIDANCE THAT SENT STUDENTS HOME BECAUSE OF SUSPENDED IN-PERSON LEARNING, THIS IS INCORRECT. THE ABOVE LANGUAGE PREDATES THIS. JMU WAS ASKING STUDENTS TO RETURN HOME TO ISOLATE/QUARANTINE DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF CLASSES.

In my opinion, there is no debate that JMU was sending sick individuals home. During the first week of classes. Before September 1. Before the suspension of in-person learning. We're not talking about the "de-densifying" of campus. We're not talking about exemptions for staying on campus. We're talking about the policy that was in place at the beginning of the semester when students initially came to campus.

Lord almighty.

To be clear regarding my frustration, I don't expect anyone to agree with my stance. But what I'm simply flabbergasted by is the seeming lack of willingness or capability to understand the actual point of contention. I don't see anything that's demonstrated a basic comprehension of my stance.

And I'm beginning to think that's just a failing on my part that I'm naive enough to expect that opinions voiced following and/or quoting mine are actually in response to mine. And if so, eff me, right? Guess I'll just let this one go in light of such bizarre rules of engagement.

(09-22-2020 10:54 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  U.S. reportedly has passed the 200K death toll total today. Back when they projected 100K, I thought to myself "no way". Then, when they said 200K, I thought "come on, no way". Now, some are saying over quarter of a million by Thanksgiving, perhaps much more. I don't think I'll say "no way" this time around.

Just so sad no matter what your views on this thing are. Damn. Just damn.

Especially since it was so easy to save the vast majority of those lives. People will be trying to explain this one may years from now. It was the worst pandemic in a century, but based on politics 25% of the people would not take the easy steps to save lives, the economy, and the sports we so dearly miss. A matter of fact, many of those 25% laughed at the people that did listen to the most knowledgeable virus scientists the government has.

BJK - The "confusion" by everyone responding to you is probably due to you comparing a policy that has been around since July for a single positive case situation to a statement by Read that was made about a completely different scenario (telling students to go home for online classes).

Let's run it back. JMU's stated policy since July "encouraged" on campus positive students to go home if that was a safe option. JMU felt that the student's family were better equipped to offer support to the student. However, if the student didn't want to go home, JMU had isolation spaces. Once you entered isolation due to a positive test, you couldn't leave until a negative test. If you were in contact with a positive individual, you were quarantined for 14 days. July Policy

Then an outbreak started.

Then on 9/1, JMU transitioned to on-line learning and asked residences to return home. JMU clearly said on this date.... "To protect the health and safety of the communities to which students might be returning, students who have been advised to isolate or quarantine should finish out their prescribed time before leaving Harrisonburg. Additionally, as a precaution, students should plan to quarantine for two weeks upon arriving at their destination." This aligns to July policy. 9/1 Announcement

Then parents, media, whoever else with their panties tied tight, said "OMG JMU IS SENDING ALL THE SICK KIDS OUT OF H'BURG TO SPREAD COVID!!!!"

Due to mass hysteria caused by the tightwads, JMU put out another statement, "JMU is not sending sick students home. The university will not be sending home students who have COVID-19 and are in isolation, or those who have had close contact with a person confirmed to have COVID-19 and are currently quarantining. Those students have been instructed to finish out their prescribed time in either isolation or quarantine here in Harrisonburg before returning home. We are also recommending that all students quarantine for 14 days when they return home to address the possibility of viral spread to other communities." Again this aligns to July policy. 9/3 Announcement

THEN local news is like "JMU IS SENDING SICK KIDS HOME!" To which, Caitlyn Read then said "naw fam, that sh!t aint gucci, we aint doing that." That may not be a direct quote but I think you know my next statement anyway.... This aligns to July policy.

So yes, JMU gave positive on campus students the option to go home as soon as they tested positive. Once they started isolation, they were stuck until a negative test. We have known that since July. However, the statement you believe is a lie is not about those situations, it was a response to people yelling that JMU was sending all sick kids home.

(09-22-2020 02:17 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 10:54 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  U.S. reportedly has passed the 200K death toll total today. Back when they projected 100K, I thought to myself "no way". Then, when they said 200K, I thought "come on, no way". Now, some are saying over quarter of a million by Thanksgiving, perhaps much more. I don't think I'll say "no way" this time around.

Just so sad no matter what your views on this thing are. Damn. Just damn.

Especially since it was so easy to save the vast majority of those lives. People will be trying to explain this one may years from now. It was the worst pandemic in a century, but based on politics 25% of the people would not take the easy steps to save lives, the economy, and the sports we so dearly miss. A matter of fact, many of those 25% laughed at the people that did listen to the most knowledgeable virus scientists the government has.

Yeah when close to half the virus deaths were in nursing homes. And who was it again who forced nursing homes to take virus patients?

(09-22-2020 07:12 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  And who was it again who forced nursing homes to take virus patients?

It was me. I did it.

(09-22-2020 06:32 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  BJK - The "confusion" by everyone responding to you is probably due to you comparing a policy that has been around since July for a single positive case situation to a statement by Read that was made about a completely different scenario (telling students to go home for online classes).

Let's run it back. JMU's stated policy since July "encouraged" on campus positive students to go home if that was a safe option. JMU felt that the student's family were better equipped to offer support to the student. However, if the student didn't want to go home, JMU had isolation spaces. Once you entered isolation due to a positive test, you couldn't leave until a negative test. If you were in contact with a positive individual, you were quarantined for 14 days. July Policy

Then an outbreak started.

Then on 9/1, JMU transitioned to on-line learning and asked residences to return home. JMU clearly said on this date.... "To protect the health and safety of the communities to which students might be returning, students who have been advised to isolate or quarantine should finish out their prescribed time before leaving Harrisonburg. Additionally, as a precaution, students should plan to quarantine for two weeks upon arriving at their destination." This aligns to July policy. 9/1 Announcement

Then parents, media, whoever else with their panties tied tight, said "OMG JMU IS SENDING ALL THE SICK KIDS OUT OF H'BURG TO SPREAD COVID!!!!"

Due to mass hysteria caused by the tightwads, JMU put out another statement, "JMU is not sending sick students home. The university will not be sending home students who have COVID-19 and are in isolation, or those who have had close contact with a person confirmed to have COVID-19 and are currently quarantining. Those students have been instructed to finish out their prescribed time in either isolation or quarantine here in Harrisonburg before returning home. We are also recommending that all students quarantine for 14 days when they return home to address the possibility of viral spread to other communities." Again this aligns to July policy. 9/3 Announcement

THEN local news is like "JMU IS SENDING SICK KIDS HOME!" To which, Caitlyn Read then said "naw fam, that sh!t aint gucci, we aint doing that." That may not be a direct quote but I think you know my next statement anyway.... This aligns to July policy.

So yes, JMU gave positive on campus students the option to go home as soon as they tested positive. Once they started isolation, they were stuck until a negative test. We have known that since July. However, the statement you believe is a lie is not about those situations, it was a response to people yelling that JMU was sending all sick kids home.

Thanks for this very detailed response. I think we disagree slightly on "gave them the option" in light of how the written policy was worded ("are being asked" is fairly stronger wording in my opinion), but the narrative seems about right. I also argued at the time (and still stand by this) that isolation space utilization percentage as listed on the dashboard was a misnomer given the fact that their preferred process was to send a COVID positive student home.

I also had the same read on Read's statement - like a news reporter asking "Why is JMU sending sick kids home??" and then the sound bite that followed was what we got. I understand that it's a soundbite and there are limitations, I just felt it was a bad look given the guidance previously provided.

All told, I'm honestly perfectly happy with this clarification. I'm not at all sold that everyone else who seemed (in my opinion, I suppose?) to be posting rebuttals to me has the same position as you, but I guess who cares.

(09-22-2020 01:03 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 09:07 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  I think the confusion may have been in how you read it. You were reading it as they were asking sick students and I think they actually meant all non-sick/positive students should quarantine when getting home and the sick ones continue their quarantine on campus.

(09-22-2020 10:00 AM)Dukester Wrote:  When there is a huge outbreak, I would assume there were tons of students that had it when they were sent home - even if they were not showing symptoms or where not quarantined.

(09-22-2020 10:08 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  Which is why JMU advised them to isolate/quarantine/socially distance themselves when they returned home. If that wasn't possible, or there was greater risk (such as a student living with a grandparent or an old person, or a student's household had someone that was at an elevated risk for something other than age, or "a number of reasons"), JMU was accommodating and found those students a place to stay in H'burg. Nobody that actually read the multiple statements made by JMU should be confused about what happened.

Okay for the last time before I get a flippin' aneurysm.

This is the statement that was live when the JMU Stop The Spread COVID page went live at least as early as August 27:

"Students that live both on and off campus are being asked to return home, to their families, if possible to isolate and/or quarantine. If an on-campus student is unable to return home for any number of reasons, the university will use these locally available spaces to isolate and/or quarantine."

FOR EVERYONE WHO SEEMS TO BE ACTING AS THOUGH THIS GUIDANCE APPLIED SPECIFICALLY TO THE SEPTEMBER 1 GUIDANCE THAT SENT STUDENTS HOME BECAUSE OF SUSPENDED IN-PERSON LEARNING, THIS IS INCORRECT. THE ABOVE LANGUAGE PREDATES THIS. JMU WAS ASKING STUDENTS TO RETURN HOME TO ISOLATE/QUARANTINE DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF CLASSES.

In my opinion, there is no debate that JMU was sending sick individuals home. During the first week of classes. Before September 1. Before the suspension of in-person learning. We're not talking about the "de-densifying" of campus. We're not talking about exemptions for staying on campus. We're talking about the policy that was in place at the beginning of the semester when students initially came to campus.

Lord almighty.

I guess I'm confused about the part where you're saying JMU posted something asking people to return home to their families (in August) before they stopped having in-person classes and told people to return home to their families (in September)

this conversation blows

covid is over

Nope. It’s literally not.

(09-22-2020 08:40 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  this conversation blows

covid is over

It does blow, because it’s not over. Indicators (reported on today, the first day of Autumn, 2020) suggest that U.S. and European COVID cases are beginning to surge. Hopefully the experts tracking new cases are wrong.

Nobody wants this to continue. We all want it over (“it” being everything related to COVID), however, magical and/or political thinking and speechifying won’t bring it to an end. Giving up won’t make it end. Being tired of it won’t make it end.

<sigh>

Be well. Be safe. The world needs Madison Man more than ever.

(09-22-2020 07:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 07:12 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  And who was it again who forced nursing homes to take virus patients?

It was me. I did it.

Stop lying. You know damn well it was Alger and Bourne. Sheesh.

Covid is over?? LOL.
People got Covid yesterday and they will get it today, and tomorrow...
This fall is going as bad as it is now and even worse now that more people are going to be gathering indoors.
Is it pessimism? No, it's realism.

56% of reported deaths recently are from 3 to 20 weeks ago. Average lag from case to death report grew from 19 days back in Apr - Jun, to 45 days now.

We are mining for deaths to continue the lockdowns. Couple that with the fact that positive covid tests may not mean what you think, from total false positives, to positives due to a too sensitive of a test.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/healt...sting.html

The most obvious example of this was the NFL testing debacle

https://www.nfl.com/news/all-77-false-po...aboratory.

Who is locked down? No one is locked down.

(09-23-2020 08:18 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Who is locked down? No one is locked down.

if your kid isnt going to school in person, you are locked down