(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: I did this about 5 years ago in a lot of detail. 7 tiers. Here are the first 3 tiers.
Top tier:
North Carolina
Indiana [b](NOTE: italics indicate slight differences in tier groupings)
Kansas
Kentucky
Duke
Thanks for sharing these lists. It makes for an even more interesting discussion.
A lot of people would agree with most of these programs being in the top tier for the past few decades (since 1975, or so).
However, the the discussion above, we were trying to come up with a list of the true "blue blood" MBB schools. Some CBB fans would say that, in order to be a true "blue blood," a school probably needs to have had elite teams dating back to the 1950s, fairly soon after the first NIT and NCAA tournaments were held, and when AP Top 25 polls first came into existence.
In that case,
UCLA would be among the blue-est of the "blue blood" schools (behind only UNC and Duke), if the criterion is on the number of top 20 MBB teams over the 7 decades since 1949, and Indiana would be a notch lower (2nd tier).
UNC (50 NCAA bids;
50 top 25 teams since 1956)
Duke (43 NCAA bids; 47 top 25 teams since 1952)
+UCLA (47 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1949)
Kansas (48 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1950)
Kentucky (
58 NCAA bids; 43 top 25 teams since 1949)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: Top tier, less than a notch below:
Michigan State
Connecticut
Louisville
Syracuse
If the emphasis is on the number of top 20 MBB teams since 1949, then
Arizona, Illinois, and Indiana would join Michigan State, Louisville, and Syracuse in this subset of "top tier" programs, and Connecticut would be listed in a somewhat lower tier.
Louisville (39 NCAA bids;
33 top 25 teams since 1952)
+Indiana (39 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1950)
Syracuse (
40 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1973)
+Arizona (33 NCAA bids; 26 top 25 teams since 1948)
+Illinois (30 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1949)
Michigan State (33 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1957)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: (upper) 2nd tier:
Georgetown
Ohio State
Oklahoma State
Villanova
If the number of final top 25 ranked teams were to be among the criteria for the upper 2nd tier, then
Cincinnati, Notre Dame, Maryland, and Michigan might belong in this group alongside OSU and Villanova, while Georgetown and OK St., like Uconn, would be in a slightly lower tier.
Villanova* (
38 NCAA bids;
23 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Cincinnati* (33 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1951) (*indicates non-P5 school)
+Notre Dame (36 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1953)
+Maryland (27 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1954)
Ohio State (29 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Michigan (25 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1964)
=============================================
Perhaps most CBB fans might agree, more or less, that the 17 teams listed above - - and Marquette (see below) might be MBB "blue bloods," to a greater or lesser extent, or at least, to have the potential to be regarded as "blue blood" MBB schools within the next 5-10 years. Uniquely, these 17 teams (a) have competed in at least 25 NCAA tournaments, (b)have had at least 20 top 25 teams, and © have had 1+ Final AP Top 25 team(s) before 1960 - - and/or have competed in at least one NCAA tournament - - before 1960.
Although Michigan didn't achieve their first Final AP Top 25 ranking until 1964, they would meet the above criteria, albeit slightly less stringently, by virtue of having competed in the 1948 NCAA Tournament.
Marquette would meet both of the above criteria, with their 33 NCAA bids and 20 Final AP Top 25 teams. Utah (29 NCAA bids & 20 final top 25 teams) and Purdue (30 NCAA bids & 19 final top 25 teams) could meet the criteria within the next season or two with either one more NCAA bid or one more finish in the AP Top 25.
The consensus or potential blue blood schools might then include UNC, Duke, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, Louisville, Syracuse, Arizona, Illinois, Michigan State, Villanova, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, Maryland, Michigan, and Marquette.
It seems likely that first five schools on the list might be widely considered to be among the most indisputable, or "truest of the true" MBB blue bloods.
=============================================
.
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: (middle of 2nd tier)
Arizona
Cincinnati
Illinois
These three BB schools would be ranked slightly higher (see above), as either "top tier" or "upper 2nd tier schools,
if the number of final top 25 teams were used to classify them.
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: (bottom of 2nd tier)
Arkansas
Marquette
Maryland
NC State
Florida
Utah, Purdue and Oklahoma State would join Marquette and NC State in this group, if the categories were based on the total # of final top 25 teams. Maryland would be an upper 2nd tier program, while Arkansas and Florida would be considered 3rd tier programs.
+Utah (29 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1949)
Marquette* (
33 NCAA bids;
20 top 25 teams since 1955)
+Purdue (30 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1955)
+Oklahoma (29 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1949)
NC State (25 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Oklahoma State (28 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: 3rd tier
(top of 3rd tier)
Georgia Tech
Kansas State
Louisiana State
West Virginia
Georgetown, Arkansas, and UConn (grouped in a slightly higher tier, above) - -
as well as Wake Forest, St. John's, Memphis, and New Mexico - - are among the schools that
would join West Virginia and Kansas State in this group, based on the number of final top 25 teams per school. GT and LSU (see below) would be in a somewhat lower tier.
West Virginia (29 NCAA bids;
16 top 25 teams since 1952)
+Wake Forest (23 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1953)
+New Mexico* (15 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1968)
+Oklahoma (32 NCAA bids; 16 top 25 teams since 1979)
Kansas State (31 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
+St. John's* (29 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1950)
+Memphis* (20 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1957)
+Georgetown* (30 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1980)
+Arkansas (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1977)
+Connecticut* (32 NCAA bids; 15 top 25 teams since 1989)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: =============================================
The schools listed above include a few that might be considered to show clear signs of having the potential to become MBB "blue blood" potential within the next 5-10 years, by virtue of having competed in at least 25 NCAA tournaments and having had at least 15 Final AP Top 25 teams, with at least one of these teams finishing in the top 25 or playing in the NCAA tournament team before 1960.
Those teams include Kansas State, NC State, Oklahoma State, Purdue, St. John's, Utah, and West Virginia. Purdue and Utah are already only one NCAA bid or one Final AP Top 25 ranking away from becoming the 19th and 20th schools on the what might be regarded as a consensus list of blue (or blue-ish) blood schools.
Wake Forest could join this "semi-blue blood" group within the next 3-5 seasons, by earning two more NCAA bids, while Memphis might be able to qualify for the potential "future blue bloods" list by earning 5+ more NCAA bids by 2030.
Arkansas (1st top 25 finish in 1977), Connecticut (1st top 25 in 1989), Georgetown (1st top 25 finish in 1980), and Oklahoma (1st top 25 finish in 1979) might be considered potential "future blue bloods" by some, albeit perhaps to fewer fans or in a slightly less convincing way, because none of them had a Final AP Top 25 team before 1977 (and not until 1989, in the case of Connecticut).
=============================================
(middle of 3rd tier)
Michigan
Nevada - Las Vegas
Oklahoma
Purdue
Texas
Utah
Wisconsin
Florida, FSU, Gonzaga, Missouri, Virginia, Pitt, Tennessee, and former MVC power Bradley would join Texas, UNLV and Wisconsin in this group, while Michigan, Utah, and Purdue (see above) would be ranked slightly higher, if the basis were the total # of final top 25 teams.
Wisconsin (24 NCAA bids; 14 top 25 teams since 1950)
UNLV* (20 NCAA bids; 14 top 25 teams since 1975)
+Virginia (23 NCAA bids; 13 top 25 teams since 1972)
+Pitt (26 NCAA bids; 13 top 25 teams since 1974)
+Bradley* (9 NCAA bids; 12 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Tennessee (22 NCAA bids; 12 top 25 teams since 1967)
+Florida (20 NCAA bids; 12 top 25 teams since 1994)
+Missouri (26 NCAA bids; 12 top 25 teams since 1973)
+Florida State (17 NCAA bids; 11 top 25 teams since 1970)
Texas (
34 NCAA bids; 11 top 25 teams since 1978)
+Gonzaga* (22 NCAA bids; 11 top 25 teams since 2002)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: (bottom of 3rd tier)
Arizona State
Boston College
Brigham Young
Butler
California
Creighton
Gonzaga
Hartford
Iowa State
Memphis
Missouri
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
St. John's
Stanford
Temple
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Xavier
Dayton, DePaul, Houston, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seton Hall, Vanderbilt, and Wichita State are among the schools that
would join AZ State, BYU, Iowa State, Stanford, Temple, and Xavier in this group if the categories were based on the total number of final top 25 teams per school.
Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Pitt, Memphis, Missouri, St. John's, Tennessee, and Wake Forest would be in a somewhat higher tier or sub-tier (see above), while a few others, such as Boston College, Butler, California, Creighton, and (possible typo) Hartford would be in a lower tier or sub-tier.
+Western Kentucky* (22 NCAA bids; 10 top 25 teams since 1949)
BYU* (29 NCAA bids;
10 top 25 teams since 1951)
+DePaul* (18 NCAA bids; 10 top 25 teams since 1953)
+LSU (22 NCAA bids; 10 top 25 teams since 1953)
+San Francisco* (16 NCAA bids; 9 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Holy Cross* (13 NCAA bids; 9 top 25 teams since 1950)
+Minnesota (10 NCAA bids; 9 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Vanderbilt (15 NCAA bids; 9 top 25 teams since 1955)
+Dayton* (18 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1950)
+Southern California (17 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1951)
+St. Louis* (10 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Seton Hall* (13 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1952)
[/i]Temple* (
33 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1956)
+Wichita State* (15 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1963)
+Houston* (21 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1967)
Xavier* (28 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1988)
Stanford (17 NCAA bids; 8 top 25 teams since 1988)
+Duquesne* (5 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1950)
+Oregon State (14 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1955)
+Auburn (10 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1958)
+Georgia Tech (16 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1960)
Arizona State (15 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1963)
+South Carolina (9 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1969)
Iowa State (20 NCAA bids; 7 top 25 teams since 1995)
.
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:
The next tier (Tier 4) had 41 teams in it.
The following schools, which have had 3-6 teams listed among the final AP top 25, might be classified on that basis as Tier 4 teams. This list is not comprehensive.
LaSalle* (12 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1950)
Seattle* (11 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1952)
St. Bonaventure* (7 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1952)
Boston College (18 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1967)
Oregon (17 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1995)
Penn* (24 NCAA bids;
6 top 25 teams since 1970)
Loyola (IL)* (6 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1949)
Tulsa* (16 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1955)
St. Joseph's (PA)* (20 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1959)
Providence* (20 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1960)
Davidson* (14 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1964)
Drake* (4 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1969)
New Mexico State* (22 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1969)
Texas Tech (16 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1976)
UMass* (8 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 1992)
Baylor (9 NCAA bids; 5 top 25 teams since 2010)
Wyoming* (15 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1949)
Colorado (14 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1955)
SMU* (12 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1956)
California (18 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1957)
UTEP* (17 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1966)
Princeton* (
25 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1967)
Clemson (11 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1987)
Miami (10 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 1999)
Creighton* (21 NCAA bids; 4 top 25 teams since 2003)
Butler* (16 NCAA bids; 3 top 25 teams since 1949)
TCU (8 NCAA bids; 3 top 25 teams since 1959)
Utah State* (21 NCAA bids; 3 top 25 teams since 1960)
George Washington* (11 NCAA bids; 3 top 25 teams since 1954)
(09-14-2020 07:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: ...(a total of) 7 tiers.
Tiers 5, 6, and 7 must have each had more than 41 teams.
These might be included on the list of fifth-tier schools, based on the total number of final top 25 teams:
Bowling Green* (4 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1949)
Washington State (6 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1950)
Santa Clara* (
11 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1953)
Niagara* (3 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1954)
Penn State (9 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1954)
NYU* (2 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1960)
Rutgers (2 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1976)
Detroit* (2 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1977)
Mississippi (2 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 1998)
Texas A&M (2 NCAA bids;
2 top 25 teams since 2007)
These might be listed among the 6th tier of BB schools, based on the number of final top 25 ranked teams per school:
Tulane* (3 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1949)
Yale* (5 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1949)
LIU* (7 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1950)
Siena* (6 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1951)
Canisius* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1957)
St. Mary's* (10 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1959)
Fordham* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1971)
Marshall* (5 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1972)
Pepperdine* (13 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1976)
Charlotte* (11 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1977)
VMI* (3 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1977)
Indiana State* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1979)
Iona* (14 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1980)
Idaho* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1982)
VCU* (
17 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1985)
Navy* (11 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1986)
Loyola Marymount* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1988)
Nebraska (7 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1991)
Southern Illinois* (10 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 1991)
Northern Iowa* (8 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 2015)
Virginia Tech (11 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 2016)
SUNY-Buffalo* (4 NCAA bids; 1 top 25 team in 2019)
Schools with no Final AP Top 25 teams:
Army
Boise State
Brown
Colorado State
Cornell
Dartmouth
Furman
Harvard
Hawaii
Illinois State
James Madison
Maine
Manhattan
Marist
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Northwestern
Rice
Richmond
URI
Valparaiso
Wagner
Some of these schools that have had no Final AP Top 20 MBB teams have had enough successful seasons that they probably wouldn't be listed in the lowest tier teams based on various other criteria such as RPI rankings, the total number of NCAA tournament visits or the number of teams that have appeared in mid-season top 25 rankings.
.
A partial list of schools with no Final AP Top 25 teams that wouldn't be aptly classified as having lowest tier programs:
Boise State: 7 NCAA visits; 1 mid-season AP top 25 team.
Harvard: 5 NCAA visits; 2 mid-season AP top 25 teams.
Illinois State: 6 NCAA visits; 2 mid-season AP top 25 teams.
Rhode Island: 10 NCAA visits; 5 mid-season AP top 25 teams.
Richmond: 9 NCAA visits; 4 mid-season AP top 25 teams.
/
College Basketball Tiers
I did have Hartford in my Excel list, but I can't imagine why. There's a few other obvious wrong ones. 
