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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Miami Marlins
Short season A has almost nothing behind it around here. Maybe the Cyclones had some momentum there because Brooklyn got a team and it’s there in Coney Island, but it seems almost pulseless otherwise. I don’t think major clubs funnel much into it for marketing. You definitely don’t get the talent through there the same way other A league squads can see. It’s not a spot for hot prospects.

I don’t judge those clubs not drawing. And I love what that league represents, but baseball isn’t what it used to be, and I don’t know where short season is in all of that. A club outside of Portland nobody supports may as well be a hundred miles away. Heck some of the clubs in NYPL you’d think could draw, but really don’t.
07-28-2020 05:13 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-27-2020 04:05 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to see MLB working in Vegas and definitely San Antonio. It's just too hot during the summer. I know there are domes and Arizona/Texas/Houston make it work but it's tough.

San Antonio is pretty hot in the summer, so they'd need a dome or all night games.

But LV is next-level hot, as in Phoenix/Death Valley hot. You can't play any sports outdoors in LV during the summer, at any time. Dome only for that place.
07-28-2020 08:36 AM
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Post: #63
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 08:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 04:05 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to see MLB working in Vegas and definitely San Antonio. It's just too hot during the summer. I know there are domes and Arizona/Texas/Houston make it work but it's tough.

San Antonio is pretty hot in the summer, so they'd need a dome or all night games.

But LV is next-level hot, as in Phoenix/Death Valley hot. You can't play any sports outdoors in LV during the summer, at any time. Dome only for that place.

I was there last summer and it was still 106 at 10 pm. Got up to 113 during the day.
07-28-2020 09:05 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-27-2020 04:49 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:45 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If a team does relocate out of Florida, it will be the Rays, not the Marlins, IMO. That Montreal/Tampa Bay split concept was ridiculously awful. The Rays, while competitive, have an out-of-date stadium (Marlins have a brand new one), with limited resources (the Marlins have at least spent at various points, and won) and a city that refuses to let them out of their lease (or allow them to build a new stadium).

St. Pete issued an RFP for bids to re-develop the Trop site earlier this week. They seem to be ready to let the Rays leave.

I hate to see it, because the Rays are such a better franchise than the Marlins. But if they move elsewhere, hopefully it'll be somewhere they get the fan support they deserve. Montreal, Portland, Vancouver, wherever...all will be a big upgrade on the support they get locally in Tampa-St. Pete.

The Marlins are in one of the biggest markets in the country and don't draw flies unless they are in the playoffs (which they have been just twice in 27 years). It's deader than a Rice game or a Tulane game in the Super Dome.

What kills the Rays are two things:

1) Stadium location: Most Tampa fans live in the city of Tampa, while the Rays' stadium is in downtown St. Pete. As the crow flies, that's not a bad distance, but the actual drive is a bit of a haul. Had the stadium been built in Tampa, you'd see numbers more like the Bucs get (still not great, but better for a baseball team).

2) The New York, Boston, & Chicago fan populations in Pinellas County. These fanbases aren't exactly small in any city, but the amount of these fans is especially obvious in Pinellas, where most either move to retire, or for jobs in & around Tampa. My loathing for Boston teams lies in the number of zealous Boston fans I went to school & events with growing up, & these three fanbases take over any games that their teams show up to. Add to it that Tampa is in the same division as Boston & New York, & of course they're not going to show up to other games to support a team that could hurt their own. Add to it that many local kids like myself move out of the area for work & school, & suddenly you can't sustain a long-term fanbase while others overcrowd the area.

It sucks to watch the conversation become a matter of when, not if, they will move, but I totally get why they want to go elsewhere. I was born just a few roads from the stadium, so I will be sad to see them go whenever that time comes. For now, I enjoy the team from a distance & try to catch a game when I'm in town during the season.

I live 10 mins from the stadium. The sad thing is development is just starting to engulf the area. Museums, Condos, apartments, trendy restaurants, breweries, sports bars and dive bars.

You hit on the main issue. Tampa Bay (the body of water) is a hugely detrimental to drawing larger crowds. Almost impossible to drive from Tampa to St Pete in under 45 mins for a weeknight game.

St Pete just doesn't have enough population in the summer to support the team when you factor in half the baseball fans locally have allegiance to other teams.

On another note: time to bring the Gasparilla Bowl back to St Pete. I understood why they wanted it on grass for Bad Boy...but they are gone.

https://www.gasparillabowl.com/

Downtown St Pete is so much better for visiting fans than RayJay off Dale Mabry.
07-28-2020 09:07 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #65
RE: Miami Marlins
Marlins had 4 more players test positive today.....
07-28-2020 09:08 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 05:13 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Short season A has almost nothing behind it around here. Maybe the Cyclones had some momentum there because Brooklyn got a team and it’s there in Coney Island, but it seems almost pulseless otherwise. I don’t think major clubs funnel much into it for marketing. You definitely don’t get the talent through there the same way other A league squads can see. It’s not a spot for hot prospects.

I don’t judge those clubs not drawing. And I love what that league represents, but baseball isn’t what it used to be, and I don’t know where short season is in all of that. A club outside of Portland nobody supports may as well be a hundred miles away. Heck some of the clubs in NYPL you’d think could draw, but really don’t.

Covid-19 has given MLB top cover...the reduced plan is going to happen. I would not be surprised if they cut even more. They'll surely get sued by a few cities so the drama and unintended consequences will drag on for a few years.
07-28-2020 09:12 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:08 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Marlins had 4 more players test positive today.....

Yowza

I wonder WTH those guys were doing.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 09:14 AM by TexanMark.)
07-28-2020 09:13 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #68
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:13 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 09:08 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Marlins had 4 more players test positive today.....

Yowza

I wonder WTH those guys were doing.

may just have been one and then everyone else pays.
07-28-2020 09:42 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #69
RE: Miami Marlins
Rachel Phelps finally got a team in Miami....

Here's a live look in a meeting right now-
07-28-2020 09:44 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 04:49 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:45 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If a team does relocate out of Florida, it will be the Rays, not the Marlins, IMO. That Montreal/Tampa Bay split concept was ridiculously awful. The Rays, while competitive, have an out-of-date stadium (Marlins have a brand new one), with limited resources (the Marlins have at least spent at various points, and won) and a city that refuses to let them out of their lease (or allow them to build a new stadium).

St. Pete issued an RFP for bids to re-develop the Trop site earlier this week. They seem to be ready to let the Rays leave.

I hate to see it, because the Rays are such a better franchise than the Marlins. But if they move elsewhere, hopefully it'll be somewhere they get the fan support they deserve. Montreal, Portland, Vancouver, wherever...all will be a big upgrade on the support they get locally in Tampa-St. Pete.

The Marlins are in one of the biggest markets in the country and don't draw flies unless they are in the playoffs (which they have been just twice in 27 years). It's deader than a Rice game or a Tulane game in the Super Dome.

What kills the Rays are two things:

1) Stadium location: Most Tampa fans live in the city of Tampa, while the Rays' stadium is in downtown St. Pete. As the crow flies, that's not a bad distance, but the actual drive is a bit of a haul. Had the stadium been built in Tampa, you'd see numbers more like the Bucs get (still not great, but better for a baseball team).

2) The New York, Boston, & Chicago fan populations in Pinellas County. These fanbases aren't exactly small in any city, but the amount of these fans is especially obvious in Pinellas, where most either move to retire, or for jobs in & around Tampa. My loathing for Boston teams lies in the number of zealous Boston fans I went to school & events with growing up, & these three fanbases take over any games that their teams show up to. Add to it that Tampa is in the same division as Boston & New York, & of course they're not going to show up to other games to support a team that could hurt their own. Add to it that many local kids like myself move out of the area for work & school, & suddenly you can't sustain a long-term fanbase while others overcrowd the area.

It sucks to watch the conversation become a matter of when, not if, they will move, but I totally get why they want to go elsewhere. I was born just a few roads from the stadium, so I will be sad to see them go whenever that time comes. For now, I enjoy the team from a distance & try to catch a game when I'm in town during the season.

I live 10 mins from the stadium. The sad thing is development is just starting to engulf the area. Museums, Condos, apartments, trendy restaurants, breweries, sports bars and dive bars.

You hit on the main issue. Tampa Bay (the body of water) is a hugely detrimental to drawing larger crowds. Almost impossible to drive from Tampa to St Pete in under 45 mins for a weeknight game.

St Pete just doesn't have enough population in the summer to support the team when you factor in half the baseball fans locally have allegiance to other teams.

On another note: time to bring the Gasparilla Bowl back to St Pete. I understood why they wanted it on grass for Bad Boy...but they are gone.

https://www.gasparillabowl.com/

Downtown St Pete is so much better for visiting fans than RayJay off Dale Mabry.


In the face of withering competition, I still think it's fair to say that no area has ever struggled for so long over the location of a stadium as Tampa Bay has over this. I lived in Tampa during the 1980s and that decade was consumed by arguments between Tampa and St Pete advocates over the location of a baseball stadium, and the area didn't even have a team yet! Finally, in the late 1980s, St Pete just went ahead and built their spaceship and lo and behold, five years later a team was acquired. Hooray! Except ... It's been painfully obvious since early on that St Pete (for all the reasons you guys mention) was a poor location for the team, thus leading to abject attendance.

But what's been happening the last 10 years is arguably even more ridonculous, because for a long while now even St Pete has basically conceded that the Rays stadium has to move to Hillsborough County, and yet despite that, there still is no stadium in Tampa and won't be for a good while now.

It's an almost 40 year farce that's still in progress.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 10:02 AM by quo vadis.)
07-28-2020 09:57 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Rachel Phelps finally got a team in Miami....

Here's a live look in a meeting right now-

We could cut this suspense with a knife. Monty, anything to add?

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e474g58va1zzkl4t7o9st...=giphy.gif]
07-28-2020 10:05 AM
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Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 04:49 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:45 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 12:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If a team does relocate out of Florida, it will be the Rays, not the Marlins, IMO. That Montreal/Tampa Bay split concept was ridiculously awful. The Rays, while competitive, have an out-of-date stadium (Marlins have a brand new one), with limited resources (the Marlins have at least spent at various points, and won) and a city that refuses to let them out of their lease (or allow them to build a new stadium).

St. Pete issued an RFP for bids to re-develop the Trop site earlier this week. They seem to be ready to let the Rays leave.

I hate to see it, because the Rays are such a better franchise than the Marlins. But if they move elsewhere, hopefully it'll be somewhere they get the fan support they deserve. Montreal, Portland, Vancouver, wherever...all will be a big upgrade on the support they get locally in Tampa-St. Pete.

The Marlins are in one of the biggest markets in the country and don't draw flies unless they are in the playoffs (which they have been just twice in 27 years). It's deader than a Rice game or a Tulane game in the Super Dome.

What kills the Rays are two things:

1) Stadium location: Most Tampa fans live in the city of Tampa, while the Rays' stadium is in downtown St. Pete. As the crow flies, that's not a bad distance, but the actual drive is a bit of a haul. Had the stadium been built in Tampa, you'd see numbers more like the Bucs get (still not great, but better for a baseball team).

2) The New York, Boston, & Chicago fan populations in Pinellas County. These fanbases aren't exactly small in any city, but the amount of these fans is especially obvious in Pinellas, where most either move to retire, or for jobs in & around Tampa. My loathing for Boston teams lies in the number of zealous Boston fans I went to school & events with growing up, & these three fanbases take over any games that their teams show up to. Add to it that Tampa is in the same division as Boston & New York, & of course they're not going to show up to other games to support a team that could hurt their own. Add to it that many local kids like myself move out of the area for work & school, & suddenly you can't sustain a long-term fanbase while others overcrowd the area.

It sucks to watch the conversation become a matter of when, not if, they will move, but I totally get why they want to go elsewhere. I was born just a few roads from the stadium, so I will be sad to see them go whenever that time comes. For now, I enjoy the team from a distance & try to catch a game when I'm in town during the season.

I live 10 mins from the stadium. The sad thing is development is just starting to engulf the area. Museums, Condos, apartments, trendy restaurants, breweries, sports bars and dive bars.

You hit on the main issue. Tampa Bay (the body of water) is a hugely detrimental to drawing larger crowds. Almost impossible to drive from Tampa to St Pete in under 45 mins for a weeknight game.

St Pete just doesn't have enough population in the summer to support the team when you factor in half the baseball fans locally have allegiance to other teams.

On another note: time to bring the Gasparilla Bowl back to St Pete. I understood why they wanted it on grass for Bad Boy...but they are gone.

https://www.gasparillabowl.com/

Downtown St Pete is so much better for visiting fans than RayJay off Dale Mabry.


In the face of withering competition, I still think it's fair to say that no area has ever struggled for so long over the location of a stadium as Tampa Bay has over this. I lived in Tampa during the 1980s and that decade was consumed by arguments between Tampa and St Pete advocates over the location of a baseball stadium, and the area didn't even have a team yet! Finally, in the late 1980s, St Pete just went ahead and built their spaceship and lo and behold, five years later a team was acquired. Hooray! Except ... It's been painfully obvious since early on that St Pete (for all the reasons you guys mention) was a poor location for the team, thus leading to abject attendance.

But what's been happening the last 10 years is arguably even more ridonculous, because for a long while now even St Pete has basically conceded that the Rays stadium has to move to Hillsborough County, and yet despite that, there still is no stadium in Tampa and won't be for a good while now.

It's an almost 40 year farce that's still in progress.

07-coffee3

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07-28-2020 10:20 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Miami Marlins
The White Sox were heading to St Petersburg until the Illinois legislature froze the clocks at the deadline to complete a deal to build a new Comiskey Park.
07-28-2020 10:26 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 10:26 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The White Sox were heading to St Petersburg until the Illinois legislature froze the clocks at the deadline to complete a deal to build a new Comiskey Park.

IIRC, once St Pete started building the spaceship several teams - the White Sox, the Giants, maybe the Mariners - used a threat to move as leverage to get more money out of their existing cities during the late 1980s.
07-28-2020 10:31 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 10:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 10:26 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The White Sox were heading to St Petersburg until the Illinois legislature froze the clocks at the deadline to complete a deal to build a new Comiskey Park.

IIRC, once St Pete started building the spaceship several teams - the White Sox, the Giants, maybe the Mariners - used a threat to move as leverage to get more money out of their existing cities during the late 1980s.

San Antonio sez hold my beer

They were played several times too for Football

Quo if you haven't been to St Pete lately you won't recognize the area around the Trop. It is actually a great environment for a sporting event now.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 05:13 PM by TexanMark.)
07-28-2020 11:15 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 09:12 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 05:13 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Short season A has almost nothing behind it around here. Maybe the Cyclones had some momentum there because Brooklyn got a team and it’s there in Coney Island, but it seems almost pulseless otherwise. I don’t think major clubs funnel much into it for marketing. You definitely don’t get the talent through there the same way other A league squads can see. It’s not a spot for hot prospects.

I don’t judge those clubs not drawing. And I love what that league represents, but baseball isn’t what it used to be, and I don’t know where short season is in all of that. A club outside of Portland nobody supports may as well be a hundred miles away. Heck some of the clubs in NYPL you’d think could draw, but really don’t.

Covid-19 has given MLB top cover...the reduced plan is going to happen. I would not be surprised if they cut even more. They'll surely get sued by a few cities so the drama and unintended consequences will drag on for a few years.

I don’t want to see it gone, but, it’s not like I have a team I can get to within even an hour of me. I’ve got A regular, AA, and AAA around, as well as the Phils, but if I want short season, Staten Island is the closest. And when I lived in NYC, I could never time a trip out there to catch a game. It wasn’t very accessible, though they’re right off the ferry. And it seems you hear far more about Lakewood, Reading, and the Lehigh Valley, and Clearwater, than you EVER do for Williamsport during a Phillies broadcast.

I remember there being some excitement for the State College team those years back, the Spikes. They play at Penn State’s field. They’re now with the Cardinals and no longer the Pirates. It’s tough putting a team there when the season spans when University Park kinda clears out.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 12:24 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
07-28-2020 12:23 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 11:15 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 10:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 10:26 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The White Sox were heading to St Petersburg until the Illinois legislature froze the clocks at the deadline to complete a deal to build a new Comiskey Park.

IIRC, once St Pete started building the spaceship several teams - the White Sox, the Giants, maybe the Mariners - used a threat to move as leverage to get more money out of their existing cities during the late 1980s.

Sam Antonio sez hold my beer

They were played several times too for Football

Quo if you haven't been to St Pete lately you won't recognize the area around the Trop. It is actually a great environment for a sporting event now.

Mark, I have not been over there since 2008, the last time I saw a Devil Rays game at TF. At that time, it was still surrounded by a vast parking lot ringed with a couple of sports bars trying to scratch out a living.

I do know that generally speaking that area along the western shore of Tampa Bay has become quite nice, driven by the growth of USF - St Pete, so I'm not surprised about what you say.

Still, I don't think we can ever get past the basic fact that the large majority of people wanting to attend Rays games have to cross a bridge, either the Howard Frankland from Tampa or the Sunshine Skyway from Sarasota/Bradenton, to get there, and doing that during the evening is just a real *****. IMO, the stadium has to be much closer to Tampa, either downtown near RJ, or else at the top of the bay, near say Oldsmar or Town and Country.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 01:00 PM by quo vadis.)
07-28-2020 12:59 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Miami Marlins
(07-28-2020 10:05 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(07-28-2020 09:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Rachel Phelps finally got a team in Miami....

Here's a live look in a meeting right now-

We could cut this suspense with a knife. Monty, anything to add?

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e474g58va1zzkl4t7o9st...=giphy.gif]

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07-28-2020 01:50 PM
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No Bull Offline
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RE: Miami Marlins
(07-27-2020 04:05 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Hard to see MLB working in Vegas and definitely San Antonio. It's just too hot during the summer. I know there are domes and Arizona/Texas/Houston make it work but it's tough.

If San Antonio evers gets a team... I hope like hell they don't play in the Alamodome. That is one ugly big box of a stadium.

No baseball team is moving to friggin Portland.
07-28-2020 02:12 PM
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Shox Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Miami Marlins
Well, the bright side to all this is that at least half of the Marlins roster has contracted Covid with likely more to come. That means once they all get passed their symptoms and blow clean, should they get hot on the diamond they will have a full and healthy team come the post season.

Should we be surprised though? Folks that have spent any significant time in a locker room know that if one guy comes down with the flu/a cold/ring worm/etc everybody is going to get it. Its just the way it works.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2020 02:37 PM by Shox.)
07-28-2020 02:35 PM
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