micman
1st String
Posts: 2,226
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 143
I Root For: Memphis/GT
Location:
|
Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
|
|
07-16-2020 04:22 PM |
|
aardWolf
Heisman
Posts: 7,366
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 700
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Olive Branch, MS
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 04:33 PM by aardWolf.)
|
|
07-16-2020 04:31 PM |
|
micman
1st String
Posts: 2,226
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 143
I Root For: Memphis/GT
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 04:31 PM)aardWolf Wrote: Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
I meant most recruits by coach "to date". I expect Penny to exceed that number if he stays here another 5 years. If Moussa had played a senior year, he would have been a McDAA.
|
|
07-16-2020 04:39 PM |
|
aardWolf
Heisman
Posts: 7,366
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 700
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Olive Branch, MS
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 04:39 PM)micman Wrote: (07-16-2020 04:31 PM)aardWolf Wrote: Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
I meant most recruits by coach "to date". I expect Penny to exceed that number if he stays here another 5 years. If Moussa had played a senior year, he would have been a McDAA.
Most recruits by coach "to date" is unfairly biased towards coaches that have been here longer. To understand how good of a recruiter a coach is, you need to adjust for years coaching.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 04:42 PM by aardWolf.)
|
|
07-16-2020 04:42 PM |
|
mairving
Ignant Homer
Posts: 28,603
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 1448
I Root For: Memphis
Location: MediocreVille
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Finch only recruited locally. If he missed out on a guy it could spell trouble like Tony Harris.
|
|
07-16-2020 05:31 PM |
|
Keeper
All American
Posts: 3,413
Joined: Aug 2017
Reputation: 204
I Root For: Memphis
Location: memphis
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Yep Penny is the best since Finch. Same heart, similar talent, rightly seasoned, and all Memphis!
|
|
07-16-2020 05:47 PM |
|
Tigerx3
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12,385
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 959
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Germantown
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
|
|
07-16-2020 06:00 PM |
|
Keeper
All American
Posts: 3,413
Joined: Aug 2017
Reputation: 204
I Root For: Memphis
Location: memphis
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 06:00 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote: (07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
Many that is why the NCAA came up with the one and done Calapari rule.
|
|
07-16-2020 06:13 PM |
|
micman
1st String
Posts: 2,226
Joined: Jun 2016
Reputation: 143
I Root For: Memphis/GT
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 06:00 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote: (07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
I only remember Kendrick Perkins.
|
|
07-16-2020 06:42 PM |
|
k2tigers
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18,135
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 962
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
and Amar'e Stoudemire
|
|
07-16-2020 06:56 PM |
|
k2tigers
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18,135
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 962
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
OP,
McDonalds AA's don't carry near the luster they did even 2 years ago. The landscape has completely changed. 5-star prep schoolers and all the reclassify's take way eligibility
The whole recruiting industry has evolved over many years - the composite rankings are the best - RSCI, 247
The best head coach recruiters for Memphis - past, present, future - in order
John Calipari
Penny Hardaway
Gene Bartow
Larry Finch
Dana Kirk
Josh Pastner
imo, of course....
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2020 07:19 PM by k2tigers.)
|
|
07-16-2020 07:17 PM |
|
ImaTiger
We fight like Tigers!
Posts: 2,720
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 321
I Root For: I am a 901Tiger
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Finch got all of Dana's players....
Finch got Ronnie and Kennon.
Larry is the best recruiter ever. Love Penny, but Larry is GOAT.
|
|
07-16-2020 07:22 PM |
|
uskjtc02
Heisman
Posts: 7,631
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 596
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Tunica
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Penny will be the best recruiter when it’s all said and done. It’s much harder these days with all the options these days. NBA, G league and overseas.
|
|
07-16-2020 07:27 PM |
|
k2tigers
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18,135
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 962
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 07:22 PM)ImaTiger Wrote: Finch got all of Dana's players....
Finch got Ronnie and Kennon.
Larry is the best recruiter ever. Love Penny, but Larry is GOAT.
didn't hurt to have a top 10 nephew from Nashville either
|
|
07-16-2020 07:42 PM |
|
Browning Hall
All American
Posts: 3,949
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 1107
I Root For: Mayhem
Location: World Wide Web
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Actually, Moe Iba, with an assist from Leonard Draper, recruited Finch and Robinson. So there’s that. And it was AC Wayne Yates that recruited Larry Kenon out of Amarillo, Texas.
|
|
07-16-2020 08:06 PM |
|
k2tigers
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18,135
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 962
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
sure, but the best head coach recruiters usually have some of the best player-getters, but the HC has to close
like the above post where someone said Finch got all of Kirk's players....
Finch famously flipped Andre Turner, but he wasn't the one who pursenally made sure Keith Lee was in the bag
|
|
07-16-2020 08:18 PM |
|
Browning Hall
All American
Posts: 3,949
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 1107
I Root For: Mayhem
Location: World Wide Web
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
Hard to compare the old school guys with modern day recruiting. Kirk didn’t have private jets. He recruited from his station wagon. Finch pounded the pavement.
|
|
07-16-2020 09:52 PM |
|
Memphis Yankee
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12,566
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 1300
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Lake Mills, WI
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 07:17 PM)k2tigers Wrote: OP,
McDonalds AA's don't carry near the luster they did even 2 years ago. The landscape has completely changed. 5-star prep schoolers and all the reclassify's take way eligibility
The whole recruiting industry has evolved over many years - the composite rankings are the best - RSCI, 247
The best head coach recruiters for Memphis - past, present, future - in order
John Calipari
Penny Hardaway
Gene Bartow
Larry Finch
Dana Kirk
Josh Pastner
imo, of course....
Your list is perfect. Penny gaining ground though. Don't forget we would have gotten Jaylen Green the #1 recruit in the country. MASSIVE!
|
|
07-16-2020 10:03 PM |
|
Tigerx3
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12,385
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 959
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Germantown
|
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach?
(07-16-2020 09:52 PM)Browning Hall Wrote: Hard to compare the old school guys with modern day recruiting. Kirk didn’t have private jets. He recruited from his station wagon. Finch pounded the pavement.
Kirk had shoe boxes and used car sources.
I always heard Larry played it straight but our boosters helped out outside of his overt awareness.
|
|
07-16-2020 10:13 PM |
|