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St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #61
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
:ban:nJohnbragg has no clue what he is talking about but wants his say imploded on others. Lindenwod has said they want an upgraded status and has DI status for women hockey, but is too clueless to see how they relate.

JohnBragg should be removed from moderator duties as he simply is too clueless and stupid. LIndenwood has DII football.

NoDak should be able to post nonsensical tripe laden with typos and everyone should be able to know exactly what he's talking about and should agree with him.
07-16-2020 02:53 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #62
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 03:15 AM)Todor Wrote:  You're right, but St Thomas feels a little different than schools like Butler, Marist, or Dayton that kind of retreated into Pioneer level football rather than drop it entirely. It's probably the best those schools are willing to strive for, but I suspect STU is different.

I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
:ban:nJohnbragg has no clue what he is talking about but wants his say imploded on others. Lindenwod has said they want an upgraded status and has DI status for women hockey, but is too clueless to see how they relate.

JohnBragg should be removed from moderator duties as he simply is too clueless and stupid. LIndenwood has DII football.
Isn't 1:45 a little early to be hitting the keg?
07-16-2020 09:00 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #63
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 09:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 12:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 09:30 AM)Bogg Wrote:  I think the big question would be, unless they can conjure up a straight-to-the-MVFC invite, where would they play if not the Pioneer?

A bigger question is can UST get a Summit FB bid. One team needing a women's bid too is Lindenwood. Can both get bids?

What are you blathering about? "summit" "womens" and "football" don't overlap at all. I'm pretty sure you meant something less stupid, but I can't be sure, this might be some delusion of a Summit FBS women's football league including Lindenwood.

Try reading your posts before you hit "Post Reply."
:ban:nJohnbragg has no clue what he is talking about but wants his say imploded on others. Lindenwod has said they want an upgraded status and has DI status for women hockey, but is too clueless to see how they relate.

JohnBragg should be removed from moderator duties as he simply is too clueless and stupid. LIndenwood has DII football.
Isn't 1:45 a little early to be hitting the keg?

NoDak is simply too clueless and stupid to use a smartphone.
07-16-2020 09:49 PM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #64
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hockey: my guess is that they are headed to the CCHA but they can build some success maybe UND, Denver, and Omaha vouch for them in the NCHC ...[implausible scenario clipped]

You'd have to be the sort of person who sees mass moves to FBS lurking in the Great Plains FCS schools to expect St. Thomas moving anywhere but the CCHA at this point in time.

Occam's Razor is that they are doing their due diligence after sorting out their main conference and FB, but are going to find that the door is open in the CCHA and that is their best available option.

As far as future realignment, I would not be extraordinarily shocked if cost pressures eventually push Miami and WMU to want to shift to the CCHA, which might open the door to two of the CCHA Minnesota schools moving to the NCHC ... but I wouldn't give odds on either that happening or on the Tommies being in the move instead of Minnesota State or Bemidji.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2020 02:44 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-17-2020 02:41 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #65
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
I threw out Summit Hockey as a possibility because it’s one way to have to stop having to worry about both soccer and baseball.

I too think we are going to see a geographic reshuffle in hockey that puts Miami and WMU in the CCHA while Minnesota St and Bemedji St go to the NCHC
07-17-2020 10:15 AM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #66
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-17-2020 10:15 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I too think we are going to see a geographic reshuffle in hockey that puts Miami and WMU in the CCHA while Minnesota St and Bemedji St go to the NCHC


I doubt it. It's not all about geography...

Miami and Western like the high level competition in the NCHC. Miami was one of the key founders of the NCHC, too, acting as the early treasurer, and their alumni were instrumental in the TV deal with CBS Sports Network, as well as providing current NCHC commissioner Josh Fenton, who came from Miami's athletic dept. Western wanted into the NCHC badly and lobbied hard for it, with Miami helping WMU as fellow MAC brothers. Both programs have made sizable investments in hockey, and want to play it in the best conference in the country.

One of the biggest reasons the NCHC was founded was precisely to get away from small schools in small markets with cost-containment mindsets, such as MSUM and Bemidji. Those two schools (along with a few others like Michigan Tech and UAA) made the WCHA a living hell for the more ambitious schools such as North Dakota, Denver, Omaha, etc., which led to the breakup of the WCHA.

Furthermore, BSU and MSUM are small market schools in a Minnesota market where there are three NCHC schools already - UMD, SCSU and North Dakota (Grand Forks straddles the Minnesota state line and has a big Minnesota presence). In other words, those two schools would bring little to the NCHC table beside more bus trips...Finally, both schools have a much better chance of making the NCAA tournament now by playing in the WCHA than they would playing the NCHC meat grinder.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2020 04:24 PM by puck swami.)
07-21-2020 04:21 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #67
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-17-2020 10:15 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I threw out Summit Hockey as a possibility because it’s one way to have to stop having to worry about both soccer and baseball.

I too think we are going to see a geographic reshuffle in hockey that puts Miami and WMU in the CCHA while Minnesota St and Bemedji St go to the NCHC
Didn't Mankato reject the NCHC when they offered? There's no way the NCHC would accept Bemidji, either. The NCHC isn't interested in geography as much as it is investment in the sport, and Bemidji simply doesn't have the financial chops, facilities, or support to keep up with the NCHC's demands.
07-21-2020 10:23 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
Word is that St. Thomas will be officially admitted to the CCHA today.
07-29-2020 10:49 AM
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UTArlingtonMaverick Offline
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Post: #69
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-16-2020 11:32 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 06:28 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 01:09 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-15-2020 10:33 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Does this mean that the Summit League won't need their Eastern Illinois soccer affiliate, outside the Summit footprint but inside the MAC footprint, at precisely the same time that the MAC needs a new soccer affiliate?

The Summit wants W I'll to leave soon. ORU may beat them on timing.

The Summit is the most geographically friendly conference for Western Illinois given the options they’d be provided. Perhaps the Horizon - it’s not what it used to be.

Oral Roberts left a good thing with the Southland. I see them either trying to return, joining the WAC, or - the best option IMO - joining a new conference made of South Central schools. Something like:

Oral Roberts
Abilene Christian
Tarleton St
Incarnate Word
Houston Baptist
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Orleans

Reduced Southland:

Central Arkansas
Sam Houston St
Stephen F. Austin St
Lamar
Northwestern St
McNeese St
Nichols St
Southeastern Louisiana

WAC: Chicago St, New Mexico St, Dixie St, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Seattle - perhaps they can pull a school or two from the Big Sky?

ORU left the Southland because the Southland was going to go to divisional play and they didn’t want to be lumped with UCA and the LA schools—they wanted to play in Texas.

I agree though, take the Southland’s 13, pepper in programs like Tarleton St, UTRGV, UTA, UALR, and ORU and you have two conferences, which can affiliate in sports where there aren’t enough participants to support two leagues and have a scheduling alliance in all sports to help keep things local and travel costs down.



I do wonder about UTA and whether they would want to join such a new conference. They left the SLC about a decade ago for a WAC that was losing members rapidly

When UTA left the Southland for the WAC, it was not obvious or clear that the WAC composition would change so quickly.

UTA wanted out of the Southland because Southland schools are not peer institutions. After the WAC membership changed so drastically, the WAC also was not made-up of peer institutions.

There is no perfect fit, but the Sunbelt was/is composed of universities that are more peer-like compared to the Southland and present-day WAC. In fact, some Sunbelt universities are strong peers, such as Texas State, Georgia State, and perhaps Louisiana to a lesser degree.
07-29-2020 02:01 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #70
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-29-2020 02:01 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  
(07-16-2020 11:32 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I do wonder about UTA and whether they would want to join such a new conference. They left the SLC about a decade ago for a WAC that was losing members rapidly

When UTA left the Southland for the WAC, it was not obvious or clear that the WAC composition would change so quickly.

UTA wanted out of the Southland because Southland schools are not peer institutions. After the WAC membership changed so drastically, the WAC also was not made-up of peer institutions.

There is no perfect fit, but the Sunbelt was/is composed of universities that are more peer-like compared to the Southland and present-day WAC. In fact, some Sunbelt universities are strong peers, such as Texas State, Georgia State, and perhaps Louisiana to a lesser degree.

Thanks for the explanation.

I think UTA and Little Rock are in the SB fir the long haul. UTA is not going to want to go back to a Southland Conference that it left about a decade ago. It's not going to want to go to a Summit Leafue that stretches to the Dakotas, as opposed to the SB which has several schools within driving distance. It's not going to go to the WAC. And I just don't see the MVC, if it decided to expand, reaching down to Texas over Murray State and/or Belmont.

Pretty much the same story for Little Rock. They have no reason to leave.
07-29-2020 02:38 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(07-29-2020 10:49 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Word is that St. Thomas will be officially admitted to the CCHA today.

It's official

https://www.twincities.com/2020/07/29/st...e-country/
07-29-2020 06:52 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #72
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
That’s has to sting in you’re UAH or one of the Alaska schools.
07-29-2020 07:14 PM
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Inkblot Offline
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Post: #73
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
The interesting thing about this is that it'll double the number of all-sports D1 schools in the conference.
07-30-2020 12:28 AM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2022 10:03 AM by nodak651.)
02-23-2022 10:02 AM
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OhioBoilermaker Offline
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Post: #75
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.
02-23-2022 10:24 AM
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NDSUguy Offline
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Post: #76
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:24 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.

Some inside info... UST knew all along that the members of the golf club would not approve of their offer. Per the courses bylaws, they would have required a 75.1% approval to make the sale. It was never going to happen. The reason that UST did this was two fold:

1. They already know that they are likely to purchase the land at the old Ford Plant site which is only a couple miles away.
2. They want to expand campus and have been trying to purchase blocks around campus. There has been resistance from some residents and this was leaked as a way to show the locals that they are serious about expansion (i.e. sell us your house, we have the money).
02-23-2022 10:48 AM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:24 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.

Yeah, I have been surprised they haven't even dipped their foot in the water there any earlier in the site planning process. That golf course was by far the best piece of land they could have hoped for. After the Ford site, what are the next potential locations? I can't think of anything that would be ideal for them.. If St. Paul Academy has enough land for an arena I could potentially see them working out an arena deal there, or a maybe a renovation of the Coliseum, or potentially an arena could be built to the east of Alianz Field? All of their options kinda suck and each has a ton of road blocks. Hopefully for them, Town & Country is open to selling and is just playing hard ball for more money, but that Golf Course has been there forever.
02-23-2022 10:54 AM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:48 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:24 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.

Some inside info... UST knew all along that the members of the golf club would not approve of their offer. Per the courses bylaws, they would have required a 75.1% approval to make the sale. It was never going to happen. The reason that UST did this was two fold:

1. They already know that they are likely to purchase the land at the old Ford Plant site which is only a couple miles away.
2. They want to expand campus and have been trying to purchase blocks around campus. There has been resistance from some residents and this was leaked as a way to show the locals that they are serious about expansion (i.e. sell us your house, we have the money).

Makes sense. How much land is available at the Ford site? I thought the city already signed a bunch of contracts and finalized the site plans? Good luck to UST if they hope the St. Paul City Council throws THEM a bone.
02-23-2022 10:58 AM
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OhioBoilermaker Offline
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Post: #79
RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:48 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:24 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.

Some inside info... UST knew all along that the members of the golf club would not approve of their offer. Per the courses bylaws, they would have required a 75.1% approval to make the sale. It was never going to happen. The reason that UST did this was two fold:

1. They already know that they are likely to purchase the land at the old Ford Plant site which is only a couple miles away.
2. They want to expand campus and have been trying to purchase blocks around campus. There has been resistance from some residents and this was leaked as a way to show the locals that they are serious about expansion (i.e. sell us your house, we have the money).

Re 2: the St. Thomas conditional use permit actually forbids them from buying any new land within a mile of campus or along the length of Summit avenue. Now, a city official has said that the city does not regulate ownership, so it remains to be seen if this matters. But it does throw a wrench in things with the neighbors.
02-23-2022 11:15 AM
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OhioBoilermaker Offline
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RE: St. Thomas's D1 waiver has been approved
(02-23-2022 10:58 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:48 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:24 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  
(02-23-2022 10:02 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  Interesting development. UST's unsolicited offer to buy a nearby golf course, for 61 million, was declined. UST is still searching for land needed to build a new hockey arena.

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/st-t...key-arena/

“Right now we’re focusing on hockey and baseball and softball and those three facilities are contemplated to be the first of those facilities we would need to build,” University of St. Thomas Director of Athletics Phil Esten told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. There would also be room for other facilities, but those three are the immediate priority. Football and basketball will stay in their current locations on campus for now, but the university has to take a long-term view as well."

I followed this saga pretty closely as I grew up in the neighborhood. I think that the Ford site was always more realistic, to be honest.

Some inside info... UST knew all along that the members of the golf club would not approve of their offer. Per the courses bylaws, they would have required a 75.1% approval to make the sale. It was never going to happen. The reason that UST did this was two fold:

1. They already know that they are likely to purchase the land at the old Ford Plant site which is only a couple miles away.
2. They want to expand campus and have been trying to purchase blocks around campus. There has been resistance from some residents and this was leaked as a way to show the locals that they are serious about expansion (i.e. sell us your house, we have the money).

Makes sense. How much land is available at the Ford site? I thought the city already signed a bunch of contracts and finalized the site plans? Good luck to UST if they hope the St. Paul City Council throws THEM a bone.

This is where things get interesting… the company that owns the Ford site? Ryan Companies. The current chair of the St. Thomas board? The CEO of Ryan Companies. There is no shortage of available land there; St. Thomas won’t even get close to owning half of it.

Worth noting too that St. Paul recently passed a rent control ordinance, INCLUDING new construction. This has put a hold on much development in STP, which probably makes Ryan more willing to sell.
02-23-2022 11:18 AM
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