(07-07-2020 01:53 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

Quote:We have the worst numbers in the world. What part of our response indicates the correct actions have been taken?

We're in this problem and many others because we only think about ourselves, first and foremost.

Using what metric? Not deaths per million or cases per million. We are not doing great but I have not seen any metrics showing us as the worst when you look at numbers compared to population.

Most total cases. Most total deaths. 7th worst deaths per million, when you throw out low outliers San Marino (33k pop.) and Andorra (77k pop.).

Yeah we're the worst

FWIW...

Matt Hayes @MattHayesCFB

Talking to ADs and industry folks all day. Consensus:
— Minor miracle if non-con games happen. Not everyone on same protocols.
— A pause (to, say, October) is realistic and likely, especially if season trending toward conf games only.
— In Navy speak, CoVid has the Con.

https://twitter.com/MattHayesCFB/status/...4117854213

More sports-related updates...

1. The Big 12-2 has mutually agreed that no bands or spirit groups will travel this fall to FB games. (note: I just think this is the tip of the iceberg as far as who won't be in stadiums, TBH)

2. Golf's Ryder Cup scheduled for late fall is expected to be announced it will be canceled for this year

(07-07-2020 12:40 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 12:22 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  There's no reason why we couldn't have done what almost every country in the world has done.
But we live in a selfish, entitled society. Everyone should want to wear a mask to protect our fellow Americans. Everyone should want to try to make an effort to social distance.
'But there's vacations' and 'breathing in a mask is uncomfortable' and 'I don't know anyone who has it' and 'It's a hoax' and 'I want my liberty!!'
And as a result, numbers are the highest of any country in the WORLD. And here's the truth: it will get even worse. Much, much worse.
What pisses me off about this whole thing is we did this to ourselves. People just don't give a crap until it happens to them and by that point its too late. We are sacraficing human lives for comfort and liberty. Meanwhile those that die have no liberty to live for.
Ehh, but you have your liberty, so screw 'em.

Amen

Interesting how during WW2 the government actually mandated everyday citizens to ration goods, limit consumption and basically change their way of life with no complaints but today the government suggests people wear masks in public and now its "The government is infringing on my rights". What happened to people sacrificing for the greater good? How is this situation any different from back then? Trump even said this is a war against an invisible enemy

(07-07-2020 04:01 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 01:53 PM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  

Quote:We have the worst numbers in the world. What part of our response indicates the correct actions have been taken?

We're in this problem and many others because we only think about ourselves, first and foremost.

Using what metric? Not deaths per million or cases per million. We are not doing great but I have not seen any metrics showing us as the worst when you look at numbers compared to population.

Most total cases. Most total deaths. 7th worst deaths per million, when you throw out low outliers San Marino (33k pop.) and Andorra (77k pop.).

Not that it matters or is worth going back and forth on but you can't say "we are the worst" and then "see we are #7 in the world when you take out a few other countries" being 7th would mean we are not the worst. Although as I think I mentioned earlier it is not a good thing at all to even be top 10. But the big push in the media lately it seems is to paint America as the worst which is what I referred to as media frenzy and low hanging fruit.

For me, cases and deaths per million is the only fair metric to look at. Total cases and total deaths means nothing in terms of stats (yes those lives matter but I am talking about stats) because the more populated your country is the higher your total number should be.

America is the 3rd most populated country behind China, who does not really disclose numbers and India. We have 2.3 million more cases than India but we've also tested 117k/1 million people and India has tested 7.5k/1million people so it makes complete sense that our numbers would be substantially higher than their numbers. Which is why I prefer to look at cases/deaths per million it gives a truer sense.

All that to say we are in terrible shape, sports are not coming back this fall, we could do way better, but we are also not the worst in the world...yet.

(07-08-2020 06:34 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 12:40 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 12:22 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  There's no reason why we couldn't have done what almost every country in the world has done.
But we live in a selfish, entitled society. Everyone should want to wear a mask to protect our fellow Americans. Everyone should want to try to make an effort to social distance.
'But there's vacations' and 'breathing in a mask is uncomfortable' and 'I don't know anyone who has it' and 'It's a hoax' and 'I want my liberty!!'
And as a result, numbers are the highest of any country in the WORLD. And here's the truth: it will get even worse. Much, much worse.
What pisses me off about this whole thing is we did this to ourselves. People just don't give a crap until it happens to them and by that point its too late. We are sacraficing human lives for comfort and liberty. Meanwhile those that die have no liberty to live for.
Ehh, but you have your liberty, so screw 'em.

Amen

Interesting how during WW2 the government actually mandated everyday citizens to ration goods, limit consumption and basically change their way of life with no complaints but today the government suggests people wear masks in public and now its "The government is infringing on my rights". What happened to people sacrificing for the greater good? How is this situation any different from back then? Trump even said this is a war against an invisible enemy

Agree with everything you said. I've been thinking about this same thing last few weeks. I think back to the movie It's A Wonderful Life and they talked about "metal drives", "rubber drives", "Rosie the Riveter" and so forth where Americans came together for the common good. The answer to your question highlighted in red above is pretty simple though...that is, this country has never been more divided than it is now. Even back in the 60's that saw social unrest like never before, we weren't as divided as we are now. And now, we have a pandemic to deal with on top of it. The 60's of course saw 2 Kennedy's assassinated, Civil Rights movement, MLK assasinated, the hippy movement, Vietnam War, and on and on and on.

But, of course, this is a hoax...we will all just wish it away...it will go away when the season starts warming up...

(07-07-2020 09:53 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  Yeah we're the worst

Interesting - when the death's were high in May you said we need to focus on declining cases because deaths tail the cases by about 5 weeks.

So now we should focus and the deaths, and disregard the cases? Are you trying to provide accurate information, or win a debate?

So UK has dramatically reduced their cases, and ours continue to go up. You don't think over the next month deaths won't somewhat mirror that trend as you did 6 weeks ago?

Why is Florida and Texas re-closing beaches, inside of restaurants, etc. and saying they made a mistake opening too soon and too quick? Why are they now saying masks are important to stop the spread? I know, it's the hoax that the lame stream media is pushing.

Why will UK not allow Americans to visit? Obviously it's because our elections are coming up.

There's this guy I now of that said a couple of years ago -

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"

"It's, like, incredible."

He was right. He does not wear a mask. He want's people not only to attend his rallies inside, get's rid of social distancing signs, and sign a waiver saying you will not sue him if you contract, or die from covid 2019, while requiring everyone in contact with him at the White House wears a mask and gets tested daily.

It's not consistent reasoning, it's political.

I don't care who it benefits politically, I'm still going to use common sense when making health decisions for my family, company, and myself.

At one point the argument on here was masks are dangerous. Really folks?

(07-08-2020 07:26 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  Not that it matters or is worth going back and forth on but you can't say "we are the worst" and then "see we are #7 in the world when you take out a few other countries" being 7th would mean we are not the worst. Although as I think I mentioned earlier it is not a good thing at all to even be top 10. But the big push in the media lately it seems is to paint America as the worst which is what I referred to as media frenzy and low hanging fruit.

For me, cases and deaths per million is the only fair metric to look at. Total cases and total deaths means nothing in terms of stats (yes those lives matter but I am talking about stats) because the more populated your country is the higher your total number should be.

America is the 3rd most populated country behind China, who does not really disclose numbers and India. We have 2.3 million more cases than India but we've also tested 117k/1 million people and India has tested 7.5k/1million people so it makes complete sense that our numbers would be substantially higher than their numbers. Which is why I prefer to look at cases/deaths per million it gives a truer sense.

All that to say we are in terrible shape, sports are not coming back this fall, we could do way better, but we are also not the worst in the world...yet.

Great response. I'm glad you follow it up by admitting being top 10 (or tied for 4th in the case of some graphs) is still nothing to hang your hat on.

I came to the realization in march or april that we weren't going to be having sports for the next year at minimum. Not that the virus should last that long, but that I knew what our country was like and that we were guaranteed to horribly botch our response.

I will also say that there's no way countries like India, China and Russia have the covid numbers as low as they have. As you pointed out, India is clearly under-testing and we know the track records of China and Russia. Their situations are likely worse than their government agencies are allowing to be seen. I should stop though, now that's conspiracy theory of me.

I just don't see how this can be spun in a good way -

From USA Today:

Quote:The virus has killed more than 130,000 Americans and put a strain on the healthcare system. In California, hospitalizations are up 50% from two weeks ago. Arizona reported that 90% of its ICU beds were filled, and the percentage was growing. In Savannah, Georgia, hospitalizations have nearly quadrupled in a month.

In Florida at least 56 hospital intensive care units have reached capacity – and some Republican senators said they won't attend the Republican National Convention in Jacksonville next month.

Just does not seem like a Hoax to me. Seems like the biggest pandemic in 100 years to me, that if we acted sensibly we could better contain it while being able to get back to where we were much quicker. CDC puts out a plan and most states ignore it. Thankfully our governor took it more serious and the results indicate it worked.

Big 10+4 will make decisions in next 2 weeks per this article...

https://www.yardbarker.com/college_footb...um=twitter

ESPN's Paul Finebaum reported this week that there's less than a 50% chance we get a college football season in 2020 and that CFB as a whole is in peril.

I like that it says "reported" when I would argue the more accurate phrasing would be "guesses"

The longer things are not improving, the less optimistic I am about fall and even winter sports happening on campus. I also don't think anyone at JMU has the guts to pull the plug but will wait until the Governor mandates it. Just my opinion and I hope I am wrong on both counts.

(07-08-2020 10:53 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I like that it says "reported" when I would argue the more accurate phrasing would be "guesses"

Yep. It's all guessing right now. And, a ton of looking around waiting to see what others do (or don't do). Lots of contingency planning going on as well. The next 3-5 weeks will potentially (likely?) be a whirlwind of daily announcements, cancellations, reschedules, etc., at all levels. Moreover, I'm interested to see if high school sports exist this fall? I'm doubtful, even if K-12 are back in schools. All of these contingency plans must have "what if" scenarios that have triggers to where it is time to change plans as well regardless of whether the governor makes any kind of move. Meaning, just a few infections at a school district could run through it like wildfire threatening faculty and other workers while an adjacent county school district is fortunate enough to have no spread at all. One might need to pause or shut down while the other might keep on going.

(07-08-2020 10:58 AM)LovethoseDukes Wrote:  The longer things are not improving, the less optimistic I am about fall and even winter sports happening on campus. I also don't think anyone at JMU has the guts to pull the plug but will wait until the Governor mandates it. Just my opinion and I hope I am wrong on both counts.

I'm definitely not ready to say no sports this fall. However, if we do have sports, I don't see how they can happen with fans in the stands. The only way I see it is if they require everyone to wear a mask and limit the amount of people in the stadium. And even then, it is still a risk. Masks make a huge difference, but they don't magically make you immune.
I have heard that several conferences (Ivy League is one) where they are seriously thinking about moving the fall sports to the spring. I think this might be the smartest decision right now unless something big changes. The only problem with that is if things are just as bad then as they are now (very possible the way things are going right now).
I just don't think we can trust people enough to take the precautions that need to be taken for it to happen.

Oh and I'd like to revise a previous statement I made: No, we are not THE WORST. However, we are one of the worst in the world and if things don't change we will definitely be fighting for that top spot sooner rather than later. We should be one of the best in the world at fighting this thing, not one of the worst. This shouldn't be about ranking, anyway. You tell me: do you honestly think we are doing everything humanly possible to make sure this stops? Based on where I live, that answer is a resounding NO.

(07-08-2020 11:35 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  Oh and I'd like to revise a previous statement I made: No, we are not THE WORST. However, we are one of the worst in the world and if things don't change we will definitely be fighting for that top spot sooner rather than later. We should be one of the best in the world at fighting this thing, not one of the worst. This shouldn't be about ranking, anyway. You tell me: do you honestly think we are doing everything humanly possible to make sure this stops? Based on where I live, that answer is a resounding NO.

Yep. 1,000,000 new reported cases in the last 28 days in the U.S. Not good. 28 days from now we'll be in early August. Another 1,000,000 at the rate we are going? Perhaps more? I admittedly recall thinking back to when the experts were saying we'd have 100,000 deaths and saying to myself "no way". Now, 200,000 seems easily in play and more than that by fall if we stay at this pace. Just playing the percentages since folks love doing that. Very disappointing. And, much of this could be and should have been avoided. Poor leadership. Poor citizenry.

Stanford cutting 11 athletic programs. Of course, they are/were perhaps the biggest athletics program in the nation with 36, which as Matt Sarzyniak mentioned is about 2x more than the average NCAA program (18).

Link: https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/ath...ampaign=an

Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.

I realize some will immediately roll their eyes when they read that list being cut and perhaps see it as trimming some unnecessary fat during these difficult times. But, many of those programs attract top students to an elite school. One of the first major cuts at a P5 I've heard of so far. Likely will see more.

The Ivy league has cancelled fall sports.

(07-08-2020 03:28 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  The Ivy league has cancelled fall sports.

Wow. I really thought they would at least try in the spring.
If college football is not played this fall, there will be a LOT of schools in deep, deep trouble financially.
The only silver lining to this may be that some schools are going to have no other option but to realign conferences to stay alive. Schools that entertained the option now may be more desperate and may have to move down or up. If there was talk of a new conference, I guarantee that talk is going to ramp up in a big, big way if football doesn't happen this season.
If there were ever a time to move up to FBS, it may happen very soon. I just wish it were under better circumstances.

(07-08-2020 03:42 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 03:28 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  The Ivy league has cancelled fall sports.

Wow. I really thought they would at least try in the spring.
If college football is not played this fall, there will be a LOT of schools in deep, deep trouble financially.
The only silver lining to this may be that some schools are going to have no other option but to realign conferences to stay alive. Schools that entertained the option now may be more desperate and may have to move down or up. If there was talk of a new conference, I guarantee that talk is going to ramp up in a big, big way if football doesn't happen this season.
If there were ever a time to move up to FBS, it may happen very soon. I just wish it were under better circumstances.

Easier decision for Ivy's than many others......they have HUGE endowments to weather this and as far as football, they don't play in playoffs for titles anyway so meh.