(06-30-2020 04:36 PM)Longhorn Wrote: (06-30-2020 02:24 PM)RamDawg Wrote: (06-28-2020 11:13 AM)Longhorn Wrote: (06-27-2020 05:22 PM)Purple Wrote: I have read your "source documents," but they do not change my mind nor do they change what actually happened.
Remember, the South did not start the Civil War. It started when the North fired on Fort Sumter.
WTF?
OMG
Seriously P, put down the sauce. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Ummm I'm certainly not a "history Guy" but Honest Abe was pissed because the south left the union and stopped paying taxes and would hurt the commodities supply. A.L. says the south can't leave the union and launched some cannon balls over Fort Sumter. Abe really didn't want a war but the south called his bluff.
A few years ago I believe it was the History Channel did a series on the civil war, (maybe called Grant??) I think based on a book Making a Nation (or something like that)
If I recall correctly, Grant actually owned slaves, gifted from his father. R.E. Lee did not own slaves and actually freed slaves that we're owned by his family when he became an adult.
You learned that misinformation at VCU? You certainly didn’t learn it at JMU. Perhaps you went to the same school of alternative facts as P?
Two facts. Grant married into a family from KY with slaves. Grant’s father (or his blood relations) did not own slaves. Ever. The only evidence of Grant controlling a slave was Grant giving the slave his freedom in 1859. Lee, on the other hand, did own slaves, was raised in a household dependent on slave labor, and fought in court to maintain ownership of his working slaves. Lee subsequently married into a family with more slaves. Lee did not free his slaves of his own goodwill. Ever. That is until the outcome of the Civil War, which settled that question quite completely.
Oh, and it’s incontrovertible that the first shots fired on Fort Sumter were by Southern men commanded by Pierre Beauregard, more commonly known as P.G. T. Beauregard, who the newly formed Confederate government placed in command of the defense of Charleston. As already pointed out, several southern states did not wait until Lincoln was inaugurated before declaring their independence from the Union. The attack on Fort Sumter had the same impact on Northern citizens in 1861 as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor did in 1941. It galvanized northern support for the Union and an outpouring of patriotism to fight to preserve the United States of America.
The bold part is necessary because??? This is a great example why we as a society struggle; lack of mutual respect to have a civil conversation and learn from each other without be a smart-a$$ Richard. FWIW: I didn't attend JMU or VCU, maybe that's why I have the means to be able to send them a bunch of money over many years. (life is just loaded with a bunch of "what if's")
Anyway...I was never a "history" person but as I get older, it becomes much more interesting and I'm actually enjoying reading a lot of what people are posting. Seems like history is sometimes subjective, depending on where you get your information. What I've learned from modern media, Fox or CNN, Twitter, Facebook, Google, liberal or conservative college educators, is that I need to listen, process and educate myself. When I was a child or even a young adult, we just believed what we were told or taught, now we need to be constant skeptics.
From a Snoops article:
Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”
Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased — they were inherited) in 1862! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!
Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!
I was born, raised and educated in the North, near Philly. Moved to Virginia about 25 yrs ago. My whole family still lives up there. MY OPINION and very much generalizing; the people in the North East states have and still do possess more bigotry (not racism) than people in the Mid Atlantic. I don't know why but I personally believe it's because of the NE Melting Pot. Even today, there are towns in the NE where Jews and Catholics or Germans and Italians won't live on the same blocks. I get the sense my northern education may not be the same as someone that was educated in the south. I somewhat wonder if the schools in the North used the same history books as the schools in the South.