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(07-02-2020 12:32 PM)namrag Wrote:  Listening to Alex Meacham's podcast, ALL the past players he has interviewed mention the Jordan uniforms and gear.

Some of the players from that era mention that it played a role in their committing to the program. All of the players from that era mention how opposing teams consistently commented on how much better the UC uniforms and gear were.

We can point to the success of the UC teams that wore those uniforms. But the most successful teams of the Huggs era were 92/93 and 93/94 (FF and EE). I love the uniforms from those two years, but they aren't remembered at the same level of reverence as the Jordan uniforms.

I am not a fashion designer, but they seemed to garner a lot of positive rep points for the program.

And we haven't had any uniforms since that look as good. Many of the Adidas uniforms were horrible. Most of the UA uniforms have been average / boring / predictable.

My opinion is that any little advantage that the program can obtain, they should pursue. If that means uniforms that bring a "brand" rep to UC, they should pursue it as long as they don't take a significant haircut on the $$ contract.

On the other hand I am 50 years old, so my fashion tastes are certainly very different than an 18 year old kid.

Does Jordan still carry the same level of reverence and worship among teenagers like he did in the 90's and 2000's?

Bolded, probably not. And I'll add that I'm "older" too. Not sure kids today know who he was, if that's even imaginable to us.

I think it was a unique convergence of events that made those Jordan uniforms emblematic of a resurrected elite status for the Bearcat program. One that was winning often on the big stage, in a packed, modern campus arena, putting a player on the cover of Sports Illustrated and believing the Final Four was a realistic goal most years.

Should UC have UA replicate that look using its modern fabrics, 2020 styling notes and the current "CINCINNATI" wordmark? Maybe. The block panels on the sides certainly made our team recognizable when people tuned in, much like the Michigan football helmet has for decades. And the UA uniforms and warm-ups aren't bad, but certainly have many generic elements shared by most all their schools.

But I do wonder...
-was the Jordan design trademarked or proprietary to Nike?
-does the look appeal to today's UC fans, many of whom never really saw those UC teams?
-what would today's players think about that design?

With the intense revenue pressure on big-time college athletics, I suspect there is a desire to introduce a new look every couple of years to keep jerseys flying off the shelves at Fanatics or Dick's. But I also respect big tradition programs such as Kansas and UNC for retaining some unique design elements in their baskeball uniforms for many years. And if the Jordan look was so uniquely "UC" it might be worth a 2020 take on what some believe was our "classic" look. I might be just as happy with a modernized version of the uni's from 1961 and 1962 which saw a brief return a few years ago from Adidas. Those were truly a classic look and represent a time that remains the pinnacle of our historic success.

Woah! I'm only 24 and grew up knowing Jordan was the best of the best. It wasn't until high school that Lebron started to really enter the GOAT convo. And of course, everyone my age was watching the Last Dance.

Jordan brand still has clout.

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(07-03-2020 08:56 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:32 PM)namrag Wrote:  Does Jordan still carry the same level of reverence and worship among teenagers like he did in the 90's and 2000's?

Bolded, probably not. And I'll add that I'm "older" too. Not sure kids today know who he was, if that's even imaginable to us.

@OKIcat that is probably true of Jordan the bball player (although the Last Dance has opened many eyes). That said, none of that is material to Jordan brand , which is arguably the strongest bball brand out there. Teens don't need to know who he is/was to buy his products because that's not why they buy his products. They have a fashion legacy that appeals to non-athletes (including girls and women); and a "performance" legacy for bball players (which, imo, is a false narrative not just about Js but most high end athletic shoes). The fact that they cross so many sectors (pop culture/fashion, athletic) boosts their clout among teenagers and young ppl.

i'm not nostalgic for the old Jordan unis. i liked them well enough but they didn't make the the team jump higher, run faster, shoot a higher percentage, etc...That said, i certainly think that they help in recruiting.

(07-03-2020 11:27 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 08:56 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:32 PM)namrag Wrote:  Does Jordan still carry the same level of reverence and worship among teenagers like he did in the 90's and 2000's?

Bolded, probably not. And I'll add that I'm "older" too. Not sure kids today know who he was, if that's even imaginable to us.

@OKIcat that is probably true of Jordan the bball player (although the Last Dance has opened many eyes). That said, none of that is material to Jordan brand , which is arguably the strongest bball brand out there. Teens don't need to know who he is/was to buy his products because that's not why they buy his products. They have a fashion legacy that appeals to non-athletes (including girls and women); and a "performance" legacy for bball players (which, imo, is a false narrative not just about Js but most high end athletic shoes). The fact that they cross so many sectors (pop culture/fashion, athletic) boosts their clout among teenagers and young ppl.

i'm not nostalgic for the old Jordan unis. i liked them well enough but they didn't make the the team jump higher, run faster, shoot a higher percentage, etc...That said, i certainly think that they help in recruiting.

Not disputing your assertions at all but I don't remember seeing the brand that often in men's college bball among the elite programs last season, nor do I see it in retail (though I haven't looked for it) where I usually see Nike, Adidas and UA products, both licensed and non-licensed versions everywhere.

If it's re-emerging, that's certainly a great time to jump on board, especially if UA attempts a buy-out with UC.

(07-03-2020 09:14 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Woah! I'm only 24 and grew up knowing Jordan was the best of the best. It wasn't until high school that Lebron started to really enter the GOAT convo. And of course, everyone my age was watching the Last Dance.

Jordan brand still has clout.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

24? I had you pegged for being in your late 30’s with a bundle of life experience.

Jordan quit playing basketball when you were like 5 or 6? That is serious brand clout.

(07-03-2020 01:43 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 11:27 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 08:56 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:32 PM)namrag Wrote:  Does Jordan still carry the same level of reverence and worship among teenagers like he did in the 90's and 2000's?

Bolded, probably not. And I'll add that I'm "older" too. Not sure kids today know who he was, if that's even imaginable to us.

@OKIcat that is probably true of Jordan the bball player (although the Last Dance has opened many eyes). That said, none of that is material to Jordan brand , which is arguably the strongest bball brand out there. Teens don't need to know who he is/was to buy his products because that's not why they buy his products. They have a fashion legacy that appeals to non-athletes (including girls and women); and a "performance" legacy for bball players (which, imo, is a false narrative not just about Js but most high end athletic shoes). The fact that they cross so many sectors (pop culture/fashion, athletic) boosts their clout among teenagers and young ppl.

i'm not nostalgic for the old Jordan unis. i liked them well enough but they didn't make the the team jump higher, run faster, shoot a higher percentage, etc...That said, i certainly think that they help in recruiting.

Not disputing your assertions at all but I don't remember seeing the brand that often in men's college bball among the elite programs last season, nor do I see it in retail (though I haven't looked for it) where I usually see Nike, Adidas and UA products, both licensed and non-licensed versions everywhere.

If it's re-emerging, that's certainly a great time to jump on board, especially if UA attempts a buy-out with UC.

And i don't know how likely that will be since Nike also wants to keep their name out there and having Nike schools swap out the swoosh for the jumpman may not be all that beneficial to Nike as a whole, although i am now definitely speaking out of my depth. As an aside i haven't seen anything online that goes into the business dynamic between jordan brand and nike when it comes to sponsorship in general and collegiate sponsorship specifically.

On top of that, Jumpman has slowly been expanding its offerings into other sports as they now make soccer cleats/apparel, and football, in addition to bball. i have seen a handful of golfers wear jordan brand on the golf course as well (Keegan Bradley and Harold Varner III).

The only premium bball school that comes to mind is UNC. Michigan, OK and FL are also Jumpman now for both bball and fb. Georgetown, marquette, and houston apparently are all jordan brand as well. Now that they are expanding outside of bball, it'll be interesting to see if they start expanding more aggressively or if Nike schools start switching over to Jordan brand.

Under Armour and Navy having a sit-down about their deal
https://www.capitalgazette.com/sports/na...story.html

(07-03-2020 02:56 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 09:14 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Woah! I'm only 24 and grew up knowing Jordan was the best of the best. It wasn't until high school that Lebron started to really enter the GOAT convo. And of course, everyone my age was watching the Last Dance.

Jordan brand still has clout.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

24? I had you pegged for being in your late 30’s with a bundle of life experience.

Jordan quit playing basketball when you were like 5 or 6? That is serious brand clout.

Not sure why but I also grew up with the impression that MJ lost his legs. Go figure...

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(07-03-2020 08:56 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 12:32 PM)namrag Wrote:  Listening to Alex Meacham's podcast, ALL the past players he has interviewed mention the Jordan uniforms and gear.

Some of the players from that era mention that it played a role in their committing to the program. All of the players from that era mention how opposing teams consistently commented on how much better the UC uniforms and gear were.

We can point to the success of the UC teams that wore those uniforms. But the most successful teams of the Huggs era were 92/93 and 93/94 (FF and EE). I love the uniforms from those two years, but they aren't remembered at the same level of reverence as the Jordan uniforms.

I am not a fashion designer, but they seemed to garner a lot of positive rep points for the program.

And we haven't had any uniforms since that look as good. Many of the Adidas uniforms were horrible. Most of the UA uniforms have been average / boring / predictable.

My opinion is that any little advantage that the program can obtain, they should pursue. If that means uniforms that bring a "brand" rep to UC, they should pursue it as long as they don't take a significant haircut on the $$ contract.

On the other hand I am 50 years old, so my fashion tastes are certainly very different than an 18 year old kid.

Does Jordan still carry the same level of reverence and worship among teenagers like he did in the 90's and 2000's?

Bolded, probably not. And I'll add that I'm "older" too. Not sure kids today know who he was, if that's even imaginable to us.

I think it was a unique convergence of events that made those Jordan uniforms emblematic of a resurrected elite status for the Bearcat program. One that was winning often on the big stage, in a packed, modern campus arena, putting a player on the cover of Sports Illustrated and believing the Final Four was a realistic goal most years.

Should UC have UA replicate that look using its modern fabrics, 2020 styling notes and the current "CINCINNATI" wordmark? Maybe. The block panels on the sides certainly made our team recognizable when people tuned in, much like the Michigan football helmet has for decades. And the UA uniforms and warm-ups aren't bad, but certainly have many generic elements shared by most all their schools.

But I do wonder...
-was the Jordan design trademarked or proprietary to Nike?
-does the look appeal to today's UC fans, many of whom never really saw those UC teams?
-what would today's players think about that design?

With the intense revenue pressure on big-time college athletics, I suspect there is a desire to introduce a new look every couple of years to keep jerseys flying off the shelves at Fanatics or Dick's. But I also respect big tradition programs such as Kansas and UNC for retaining some unique design elements in their baskeball uniforms for many years. And if the Jordan look was so uniquely "UC" it might be worth a 2020 take on what some believe was our "classic" look. I might be just as happy with a modernized version of the uni's from 1961 and 1962 which saw a brief return a few years ago from Adidas. Those were truly a classic look and represent a time that remains the pinnacle of our historic success.

Those uniforms were dope, and I'm 100% for it if they make a reappearance in the future.

I think retro uniforms for special occasions are always a great idea. Fans love 'em (I know I do) and I think players and recruits do as well assuming they are well executed. The early 90's and early 60's retro unis of recent vintage were both executed well in my opinion, and I think the same can be true of the late 90's/early 00's Jordan unis.

Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I am actually surprised UA didn’t just sell some or all their college properties off to Nike and Adidas. Of course, those two brands could have been unwilling to buy anyone up, letting UA release them so they can scoop up the schools cheaply.

(07-03-2020 05:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I am actually surprised UA didn’t just sell some or all their college properties off to Nike and Adidas. Of course, those two brands could have been unwilling to buy anyone up, letting UA release them so they can scoop up the schools cheaply.

https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/ne...-deal.html

Quote:Jensen sees a return to "the old days" where Nike can get away with paying "more reasonable" amounts.

"You're not going to have situations where all three brands are competing," Jensen said. "I don't see any other brands entering the marketplace...What we’ve seen will continue where you will re-up with Nike if they want to keep and if not, then you're moving over to Adidas."

I actually think Under Armour was producing better fan gear and uniforms over the last year but I am not shocked they are in big trouble. I was pretty hard on Under Armour on this forum for reasons regarding their brand strength and financial future.

Maybe UA keeps UC, maybe they get out of the business of putting their logo on uniforms. Would be happy with a move to Adidas or Nike as both would be an upgrade. A Nike/Jordan partnership would probably be huge for the brand while an Adidas partnership could equal some sweet throwback like the 2009 football or the 2011-12 (1961-62) throwbacks or even revisit some of the crazier ideas during the last partnership.

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I've only seen mention of their incredibly stupid UCLA contract that is 4 times the size of any other property they own for a bad product as one that they're trying to get out of...what are the other contracts that have been discussed by known quantities as ones UA is trying to drop?

(07-11-2020 09:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I've only seen mention of their incredibly stupid UCLA contract that is 4 times the size of any other property they own for a bad product as one that they're trying to get out of...what are the other contracts that have been discussed by known quantities as ones UA is trying to drop?

Cal. And they are renegotiating with Navy

(07-11-2020 10:11 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 09:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I've only seen mention of their incredibly stupid UCLA contract that is 4 times the size of any other property they own for a bad product as one that they're trying to get out of...what are the other contracts that have been discussed by known quantities as ones UA is trying to drop?

Cal. And they are renegotiating with Navy

And BC. Not sure what came about it but they were supposed to meet last week. Likely a renegotiation if their deal.

(07-11-2020 10:11 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 09:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 05:37 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Also... pretty sure UA is going to try to dump us. They might be headed for bankruptcy judging by the amount of contracts they're trying to escape.

I've only seen mention of their incredibly stupid UCLA contract that is 4 times the size of any other property they own for a bad product as one that they're trying to get out of...what are the other contracts that have been discussed by known quantities as ones UA is trying to drop?

Cal. And they are renegotiating with Navy

Gotcha...if I had to venture a guess, we probably sell far more licensed athletics apparel than any of those three at this point. I'm not too worried, but I may be more worried about the NEXT round of negotiations if UA drops us there, because as I've said before, the Nike stuff for non-tent pole partners is pretty ******.

Look back in 2015-2016 with Under Armor having a $40+ stock (currently $8.6) after the 1/1 split.

Steph Curry - 2015 NBA Champion with multiple to follow
Tom Brady - 2014 NFL Champion with multiple to follow
Bryce Harper - 2015 NL MVP
Jordan Spieth - 2015 PGA P.O.Y. with 2 majors with multiple wins to follow

Curry has been hurt, Brady is in the target demographic for Covid , Harper has not won and Spieth has not won since 2017.

They need some of these highly paid athlete advertisers to perform outside of the UA products

(07-13-2020 01:22 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  Look back in 2015-2016 with Under Armor having a $40+ stock (currently $8.6) after the 1/1 split.

Steph Curry - 2015 NBA Champion with multiple to follow
Tom Brady - 2014 NFL Champion with multiple to follow
Bryce Harper - 2015 NL MVP
Jordan Spieth - 2015 PGA P.O.Y. with 2 majors with multiple wins to follow

Curry has been hurt, Brady is in the target demographic for Covid , Harper has not won and Spieth has not won since 2017.

They need some of these highly paid athlete advertisers to perform outside of the UA products

Cam has a chance to revitalize his brand with the Pats. i think they also have the Rock. They also signed Trent Alexander-Arnold for those who like the Premier League. Unfortunately for them, Jordan Spieth has not continued his initial trajectory. While he didn't have the Sunday uniform, a la Tiger's Red and Black, but could have really pumped up their golf division (which, like all of UA, is way overpriced).

But their challenge is not unlike that of New Balance and Puma, which are trying to get a bigger stake into the BBall sneaker game (Adidas is a clear but distant second which is why i've not listed them). Nike is getting virtually all the top talent to sign to their brands (i include Jordan with Nike). i don't know if they ever pursued Kawhi but he could have bolstered their lineup. That said, they are hemorrhaging money they might not be able to pay endorsers competitively, let alone put together a decent product for sale.