The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

We have 1 scholarship left and are actively looking. But, we are not required to use the last scholarship.

(06-27-2020 09:38 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 04:09 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is a pretty sad representation of where the program is, and how good/bad recruiting has actually been in reality.

http://makingthemadness.com/mid-major-to...21-season/

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I'm not really surprised to see that ODU was left off the list.

This list looks like something John O’Conner, the best writer for UR put together ( or at least helped). If so, he hates ODU and obviously loves UR. There is definitely a Richmond bias in those rankings. Those guys are good but they don’t have 4 players better than us.

(06-29-2020 02:13 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Y’all are all soft. I just like stirring it up. Haha. I love the entitled exclamation point crowd. It’s been too long. I figured I’d throw some gas on the fire.

That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

(06-29-2020 11:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 02:13 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Y’all are all soft. I just like stirring it up. Haha. I love the entitled exclamation point crowd. It’s been too long. I figured I’d throw some gas on the fire.

That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen!!!!!!! This is unacceptable!!!!! We need a big man!!!!! There u go Razor. I’ve now “added” to the conversation. Point us to the posts where you add anything to any conversation... I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a while.

(06-30-2020 06:17 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 11:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 02:13 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Y’all are all soft. I just like stirring it up. Haha. I love the entitled exclamation point crowd. It’s been too long. I figured I’d throw some gas on the fire.

That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen!!!!!!! This is unacceptable!!!!! We need a big man!!!!! There u go Razor. I’ve now “added” to the conversation. Point us to the posts where you add anything to any conversation... I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a while.

Pride...how can you be happy, satisfied, encouraged or even excited with the current men's basketball program under Jeff Jones? He has taken it from a respectable upper mid major program to little or no recognition at all. 10-20 years ago it was fun being a fan of this team whether we won or lost. At least we knew we would be competitive no matter who we played including UNC, Georgetown, Clemson, etc. Now we are not sure we can even be competitive with Norfolk State! JJ has zero report with the fans, coaches a lack-luster style of play and continually get out recruited by his competitors. Attendance is dropping even with the great playing environment we have now. If he can't get it done with the amenities he has in place now, he never will and we will continue to be provide us the fans with mediocre basketball!

(07-02-2020 09:47 AM)BigBlueBobby Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 06:17 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 11:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 02:13 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Y’all are all soft. I just like stirring it up. Haha. I love the entitled exclamation point crowd. It’s been too long. I figured I’d throw some gas on the fire.

That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen!!!!!!! This is unacceptable!!!!! We need a big man!!!!! There u go Razor. I’ve now “added” to the conversation. Point us to the posts where you add anything to any conversation... I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a while.

Pride...how can you be happy, satisfied, encouraged or even excited with the current men's basketball program under Jeff Jones? He has taken it from a respectable upper mid major program to little or no recognition at all. 10-20 years ago it was fun being a fan of this team whether we won or lost. At least we knew we would be competitive no matter who we played including UNC, Georgetown, Clemson, etc. Now we are not sure we can even be competitive with Norfolk State! JJ has zero report with the fans, coaches a lack-luster style of play and continually get out recruited by his competitors. Attendance is dropping even with the great playing environment we have now. If he can't get it done with the amenities he has in place now, he never will and we will continue to be provide us the fans with mediocre basketball!

Im not sure I would ever call us upper mid major program, but if you want to do so, sobeit. Historically, we have generally been between around 75 and 125 with some bad years (Capel, last Blaine year, last year) and some good years (10, 11, 18). Our peak in the past 25 years was in the 2010 and 2011 seasons where we were around 40-50 in the country. (I think our only top 25 appearance ever was with Jones, FWIW).

But, as a history lesson, Jones didn't take over an upper mid tier basketball program. We were 3 years removed from that (if you want to call a program upper mid based on 2 seasons), and we were coming off a 5 win season and squarely around 275 best team in America.

I think Jones is a very good coach and we have been a really solid team under Jones. I also want better. If there is a coach that can bring up better, I'm all for it. But, listening to you whine every day about how much we've fallen (Im assuming based on one injury plagued season) is tiring. There is a middle ground between things are great and things are terrible and we certainly aint great and we certainly aint terrible. But, I guess message boards would be boring without your hyperbole.

(07-02-2020 09:54 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 09:47 AM)BigBlueBobby Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 06:17 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 11:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 02:13 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Y’all are all soft. I just like stirring it up. Haha. I love the entitled exclamation point crowd. It’s been too long. I figured I’d throw some gas on the fire.

That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen!!!!!!! This is unacceptable!!!!! We need a big man!!!!! There u go Razor. I’ve now “added” to the conversation. Point us to the posts where you add anything to any conversation... I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a while.

Pride...how can you be happy, satisfied, encouraged or even excited with the current men's basketball program under Jeff Jones? He has taken it from a respectable upper mid major program to little or no recognition at all. 10-20 years ago it was fun being a fan of this team whether we won or lost. At least we knew we would be competitive no matter who we played including UNC, Georgetown, Clemson, etc. Now we are not sure we can even be competitive with Norfolk State! JJ has zero report with the fans, coaches a lack-luster style of play and continually get out recruited by his competitors. Attendance is dropping even with the great playing environment we have now. If he can't get it done with the amenities he has in place now, he never will and we will continue to be provide us the fans with mediocre basketball!

Im not sure I would ever call us upper mid major program, but if you want to do so, sobeit. Historically, we have generally been between around 75 and 125 with some bad years (Capel, last Blaine year, last year) and some good years (10, 11, 18). Our peak in the past 25 years was in the 2010 and 2011 seasons where we were around 40-50 in the country. (I think our only top 25 appearance ever was with Jones, FWIW).

But, as a history lesson, Jones didn't take over an upper mid tier basketball program. We were 3 years removed from that (if you want to call a program upper mid based on 2 seasons), and we were coming off a 5 win season and squarely around 275 best team in America.

I think Jones is a very good coach and we have been a really solid team under Jones. I also want better. If there is a coach that can bring up better, I'm all for it. But, listening to you whine every day about how much we've fallen (Im assuming based on one injury plagued season) is tiring. There is a middle ground between things are great and things are terrible and we certainly aint great and we certainly aint terrible. But, I guess message boards would be boring without your hyperbole.

This is not related to recruiting exactly, but 275 was probably our worst season ever. Being in the top 40-50 puts us squarely as a top mid. There have been plenty of season where we finish top 100. In a system with P5 privilege and over 300 teams, any mid that finishes consistently in the top 100 is pretty good. Thats where we've been and where we should stay. A good year should be in that 60-40 range, a very good year in that 40-20 range and a normal year in the 100-60 range. Below 100 is below expectations for ODU IMO. Below 200 is a bad year.

(07-02-2020 10:00 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 09:54 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 09:47 AM)BigBlueBobby Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 06:17 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  

(06-29-2020 11:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  That’s certainly one way to admit you add nothing to a conversation lol

I can’t believe how far we’ve fallen!!!!!!! This is unacceptable!!!!! We need a big man!!!!! There u go Razor. I’ve now “added” to the conversation. Point us to the posts where you add anything to any conversation... I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a while.

Pride...how can you be happy, satisfied, encouraged or even excited with the current men's basketball program under Jeff Jones? He has taken it from a respectable upper mid major program to little or no recognition at all. 10-20 years ago it was fun being a fan of this team whether we won or lost. At least we knew we would be competitive no matter who we played including UNC, Georgetown, Clemson, etc. Now we are not sure we can even be competitive with Norfolk State! JJ has zero report with the fans, coaches a lack-luster style of play and continually get out recruited by his competitors. Attendance is dropping even with the great playing environment we have now. If he can't get it done with the amenities he has in place now, he never will and we will continue to be provide us the fans with mediocre basketball!

Im not sure I would ever call us upper mid major program, but if you want to do so, sobeit. Historically, we have generally been between around 75 and 125 with some bad years (Capel, last Blaine year, last year) and some good years (10, 11, 18). Our peak in the past 25 years was in the 2010 and 2011 seasons where we were around 40-50 in the country. (I think our only top 25 appearance ever was with Jones, FWIW).

But, as a history lesson, Jones didn't take over an upper mid tier basketball program. We were 3 years removed from that (if you want to call a program upper mid based on 2 seasons), and we were coming off a 5 win season and squarely around 275 best team in America.

I think Jones is a very good coach and we have been a really solid team under Jones. I also want better. If there is a coach that can bring up better, I'm all for it. But, listening to you whine every day about how much we've fallen (Im assuming based on one injury plagued season) is tiring. There is a middle ground between things are great and things are terrible and we certainly aint great and we certainly aint terrible. But, I guess message boards would be boring without your hyperbole.

This is not related to recruiting exactly, but 275 was probably our worst season ever. Being in the top 40-50 puts us squarely as a top mid. There have been plenty of season where we finish top 100. In a system with P5 privilege and over 300 teams, any mid that finishes consistently in the top 100 is pretty good. Thats where we've been and where we should stay. A good year should be in that 60-40 range, a very good year in that 40-20 range and a normal year in the 100-60 range. Below 100 is below expectations for ODU IMO. Below 200 is a bad year.

Not that I disagree all that much but I don't consider top 100 upper mid, but thats semantics. I consider upper mid to be top 50.

But, as a history lesson, we can see what we have historically done in the past 23 seasons according to Ken Pom:

Starting in 1997:

99
171
106
181
147
164
162
101
73
67
64
118
93
37
48
111
276
175
70
100
120
64
113
171

Average is 118. Lets take out Blaines last season bc people will whine about that. Our average is 111.

Capels average season since 1997(when Kenpom started) is 141. Blaines average season (excluding worst) is 94. Jones aveage season is 116. (take out his first season with Blaines players or last year and it would be 106.

Capels range was 99 to 147
Taylors range was 37 to 181
Jones range was 64 to 175 (first season)

Capels seasons were consistently subpar (obviously this is after he won with Olivers recruits). He was probably gifted the best in terms of what shape the program was in.

Taylors wasn't in great shape either and we were really bad the first 2 years (~160). He then slowly improved to 101 before having 3 straight top 100 seasons, then 2 seasons slightly above 100, before 2 great seasons and then falling back to 111. I think people give Taylor way too much credit because they remember those 2010 and 2011 seasons (and to some degree the stretch from 05 to 07). Your expectations were something that Blaine did not meet, fwiw.

I think its fair to strive for 75-100 each year with some really good years approaching top 50. There aren't many teams in a similar situation as us that are 20-40.

(06-29-2020 02:23 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 03:20 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  What is it that gets you so activated when others express their own opinions?

You mean the same opinion? Or the only opinion? three times a day I might add.

I don’t even come here to defend JJ. I don’t give a damn about the coach. Y’all are all soo obsessed with the one guy. I just don’t get it. What a sad way to watch sport. I’m a fan of the game. I love hoops. Like I’ve said before... I didn’t go see the Bulls play in 92 to watch Phil Jackson.

Maybe we should go after Wood for his poor decisions: C_USA & JJ

We had a 7 year stretch with rankings ranging from 118 to 37 with a 71 average. For a team in the CAA thats pretty darn good. How did we not capitalize upon that? I know BT set us back a year or two, but you would think we could have bounced back better than we have. FWIW, since JJ has been in charge, our average is 102. Not as bad as I thought, but we have very little to show for it other than one NCAA and one NIT.

(07-02-2020 11:06 AM)monarx Wrote:  We had a 7 year stretch with rankings ranging from 118 to 37 with a 71 average. For a team in the CAA thats pretty darn good. How did we not capitalize upon that? I know BT set us back a year or two, but you would think we could have bounced back better than we have. FWIW, since JJ has been in charge, our average is 102. Not as bad as I thought, but we have very little to show for it other than one NCAA and one NIT.

JJ has been here 7 years, too long. Most wins were due to weak league, OCC schedule, and incoming transfers. Also, Wood was excited about the C-USA, now with the weak teams and travel expenses we have the highest sports budget. Again I ask, with this virus when are the coaches & AD department, taking a pay cut. The current way the virus is going, we may not see a full crowd at both Football and Basketball. Wood, you were sold swamp land when you bit into the C-USA. Yes, the 2021 Basketball tournament is again, in Texas. You missed the chance for the A10 basketball and as far as football, I believe you still could have a decent schedule, at least better than basketball. Every time I look at the verbal recruiting summary for basketball, we are always getting recruits release ODU from their list (mainly 2 stars). Because of the game in today's world, consider ODU basketball 2 stars and below! I am tired of getting excited, over nothing. Where is the big Greek? One of your big man recruits.

I’ll put it like this......if JJ was coaching in the old CAA, he never would have won a single caa regular reason or tourney championship. Blaine won several and an ncaa tourney game.

The program has taken a step back, period.

I see that a high caliber high school recruit wanted by all the big time schools committed to Howard, a HBCU. That should be interesting to see how that plays out.

Makur's statement for why he chose HU over UCLA is that he wanted to start a movement to help HBCUs. It's the kind of thing I've been saying about ODU for years (since the 80s). We need one highest-level kid to say he wants to be the one to take the program to the so-called next level. The best examples of that I can think of are Mark Aguirre at DePaul and Tom McMillen at Maryland, though McMillen had a lot of help. None of our coaches -- none -- have ever been able to sell that concept to even one kid. And I argue is all it takes is one. The QB we got a recent commitment from, who immediately asked for the names of other highly sought recruits to contact about joining him at ODU is the thing we need in hoops.

(07-03-2020 10:39 AM)bench jockey Wrote:  Makur's statement for why he chose HU over UCLA is that he wanted to start a movement to help HBCUs. It's the kind of thing I've been saying about ODU for years (since the 80s). We need one highest-level kid to say he wants to be the one to take the program to the so-called next level. The best examples of that I can think of are Mark Aguirre at DePaul and Tom McMillen at Maryland, though McMillen had a lot of help. None of our coaches -- none -- have ever been able to sell that concept to even one kid. And I argue is all it takes is one. The QB we got a recent commitment from, who immediately asked for the names of other highly sought recruits to contact about joining him at ODU is the thing we need in hoops.

FWIW, that QB recruit isn't any better recruit than many of our basketball recruits. Not downplaying him, bc he's a good get. But, he's not a revolutionary recruit. Most of the high school kids do recruiting on their own.

I think people have lost sight that are basketball team is superior to our football team. (at the moment and over the past decade)

FWIW, his attitude about getting others to join him is better.

Not uncommon for either sport.

Have never heard anyone say it about ODU hoops, and I seriously doubt you have either.

(07-03-2020 10:51 AM)bench jockey Wrote:  Have never heard anyone say it about ODU hoops, and I seriously doubt you have either.

Im not sure if you are joking or if you are being serious at this point. Next time, we should ask a recruit to text you when they are trying to recruit other kids.

(07-03-2020 10:39 AM)bench jockey Wrote:  Makur's statement for why he chose HU over UCLA is that he wanted to start a movement to help HBCUs. It's the kind of thing I've been saying about ODU for years (since the 80s). We need one highest-level kid to say he wants to be the one to take the program to the so-called next level. The best examples of that I can think of are Mark Aguirre at DePaul and Tom McMillen at Maryland, though McMillen had a lot of help. None of our coaches -- none -- have ever been able to sell that concept to even one kid. And I argue is all it takes is one. The QB we got a recent commitment from, who immediately asked for the names of other highly sought recruits to contact about joining him at ODU is the thing we need in hoops.

First, I'm somewhat cynical about Makur actually going to Howard. It's a great school and I'm sure he means it when he says that he wants to start a movement to get highly recruited kids to consider HBCUs. But at some point he's gotta look out for his best interests too, and Howard's basketball facilities are not great by MEAC standards, much less the other schools that pursued him. There's something to be said for cream rising to the top regardless of where they play, but there's a difference between, say, Ja Morant at Murray State or Steph Curry at Davidson, and someone making it from a program that's traditionally one of the worst in the D1.

Cam Newton's brother did play football for Howard, but he transferred to Auburn.

Maker's case is special because of the kind of school he's boosting and the time in which he's doing it. ODU's best hope is to get a prominent local high-schooler to stay home, but that's getting more and more rare these days for any mid to upper-mid major. The game-changers (Matt Coleman) are more likely to transfer to the basketball factories like Oak Hill anyway, and there goes the home-field advantage.,