They opened up well before Memorial Day is my point. But continue placing no blame on the mass gatherings and riots. The virus politely stopped for those three weeks as of course it is tolerant of certain activities but not others.

(06-27-2020 10:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  They opened up well before Memorial Day is my point. But continue placing no blame on the mass gatherings and riots. The virus politely stopped for those three weeks as of course it is tolerant of certain activities but not others.

A spike doesn't necessarily mean only that a bunch of people get the virus at once; it also often means those initial folks passed it on so that you see exponential community growth. If left unchecked, there's no end to the spike until the virus runs out of victims. In other words, you can't just wait until the numbers hit their high, then look back 2-3 weeks and say, "See, that's THE thing that caused all of this."

This is besides the fact that the most rigorous analysis thus far suggests that the net effect of the protests on COVID-19 spread was minimal. We should all absolutely be open to further studies refuting this, but I'm waiting on a counter that doesn't involve references to "liberal academics" or fall back on the old notion that "you can make numbers say anything."

The jury will be out for a while, maybe forever, on how much impact the protests had on spread of the virus, but it's at best disingenuous for any informed person to point to them as the sole reason for the spike.

(06-27-2020 10:25 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  They opened up well before Memorial Day is my point. But continue placing no blame on the mass gatherings and riots. The virus politely stopped for those three weeks as of course it is tolerant of certain activities but not others.

We’ll never know if the protests fueled the virus because no one is asking if someone attended a protest.

Texas and Florida both have had major issues with bars reopening and willfully choosing to ignore the restrictions in place. We’re starting to see that in many states. Businesses reopening against the regulations because they wouldn’t be able to survive financially under continued restrictions.

The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

(06-27-2020 12:50 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

Its part of a quandry that this pandemic is putting many members of government in. We're a nation of freedoms. We pride ourselves in our ability to have the freedom to say what we want, and express ourselves how we want without facing reprisal.

There's a virus going around. While medical research is improving on it, the only sure way proven from other countries to stop/slow the spread of the virus is by imposing severe restrictions on residents. Most European countries required written permission for a person to leave their home to go to the Grocery Store or Pharmacy during this. China used forced lockdowns, and even went as far as forced separation of families to prevent Covid from spreading within households.

Any of those measures in the US would require extremely limiting anothers rights and freedoms for a short period of time to maintain the greater good. That requires an insane amount of trust between the citizens and their leadership.

If you tell a group of George Floyd protesters that they are well within their rights to gather by the thousands to protest the deep seeded racism that has existed in the US for years, how can you then turn around and tell the Republican Party they can't hold an in person convention? There's no great answer to it, and when you get even farther into forced quarantines, and business closures, you enter into even more murky territory that simply put this country has never had to do.

(06-27-2020 12:50 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

Those specific mass gatherings, relative to mitigating details that also accompanied them, and to contributing factors that may swamp their impact? Yes. However, I'm very open to reading the science that demonstrates the spread of the virus that you believe is due to the protests. Drop me a link and I'll be glad to add it to the library.

You also might be confusing "science" with "assumptions based on what I call common sense," which is easy to do and sometimes worthwhile. Sometimes it's not, though. For example, it's cool that a few calculations let us know that the sun and the moon aren't actually the same size.

(06-27-2020 05:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 12:50 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

Its part of a quandry that this pandemic is putting many members of government in. We're a nation of freedoms. We pride ourselves in our ability to have the freedom to say what we want, and express ourselves how we want without facing reprisal.

There's a virus going around. While medical research is improving on it, the only sure way proven from other countries to stop/slow the spread of the virus is by imposing severe restrictions on residents. Most European countries required written permission for a person to leave their home to go to the Grocery Store or Pharmacy during this. China used forced lockdowns, and even went as far as forced separation of families to prevent Covid from spreading within households.

Any of those measures in the US would require extremely limiting anothers rights and freedoms for a short period of time to maintain the greater good. That requires an insane amount of trust between the citizens and their leadership.

If you tell a group of George Floyd protesters that they are well within their rights to gather by the thousands to protest the deep seeded racism that has existed in the US for years, how can you then turn around and tell the Republican Party they can't hold an in person convention? There's no great answer to it, and when you get even farther into forced quarantines, and business closures, you enter into even more murky territory that simply put this country has never had to do.

Also, this is a great post. I think chiefsfan and I are closer in our leanings on this than most would assume based upon the "sides" we've fallen into.

I’m still awaiting results but I’m exhibiting more than half of the COVID symptoms...fever, congestion, cough, dizziness, loss of taste and smell, and yes diarrhea. Let me tell you right now...THIS SUCKS!!! I’ve crapped 4 times today and I can’t smell bacon. BACON! God’s 3rd greatest gift to mankind behind life itself and blondes with loose morals.

Wear a damn mask so that if you have it (especially if you’re asymptomatic) you don’t get someone else sick and put them through this. It isn’t infringing upon your freedom any more than putting on a shirt and shoes before you walk into the 7-11. You accept that, so quit being whiney selfish dicks about wearing a paper mask over your face. You just don’t want to wear one because you enjoy being a contrarian troll.

I only see 2-4 people per day at work, I wore a mask in most public places I went but not everywhere (that’s on me), I washed and/or sanitized my hands after coming out of every single public place I went but it wasn’t enough. PLEASE...wear a mask.

(06-27-2020 06:35 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 05:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 12:50 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

Its part of a quandry that this pandemic is putting many members of government in. We're a nation of freedoms. We pride ourselves in our ability to have the freedom to say what we want, and express ourselves how we want without facing reprisal.

There's a virus going around. While medical research is improving on it, the only sure way proven from other countries to stop/slow the spread of the virus is by imposing severe restrictions on residents. Most European countries required written permission for a person to leave their home to go to the Grocery Store or Pharmacy during this. China used forced lockdowns, and even went as far as forced separation of families to prevent Covid from spreading within households.

Any of those measures in the US would require extremely limiting anothers rights and freedoms for a short period of time to maintain the greater good. That requires an insane amount of trust between the citizens and their leadership.

If you tell a group of George Floyd protesters that they are well within their rights to gather by the thousands to protest the deep seeded racism that has existed in the US for years, how can you then turn around and tell the Republican Party they can't hold an in person convention? There's no great answer to it, and when you get even farther into forced quarantines, and business closures, you enter into even more murky territory that simply put this country has never had to do.

Also, this is a great post. I think chiefsfan and I are closer in our leanings on this than most would assume based upon the "sides" we've fallen into.

I'm very much in the middle. I'm convinced that while extreme social distancing works, I am not convinced it works in the US. It requires asking someone who is healthy to accept severe restrictions on not only their life, but their ability to earn a living wage. We're in a country where neither side trusts the government as far as they can throw them.

If there was a way to ensure every American was compensated with their regular monthly wages, than I would probably advocate more strict lockdowns. However unemployment, especially in many Southern State has been an unmitigated disaster. Stay at home orders have been different from state to state, and with the large number of people who work in a different state than they live, many of those are just stuck in a lurch

I work in Memphis, I live in Arkansas. When Memphis shut down to this for the first time in March, 40 percent of my income went flying out the door. Yet, Arkansas never shut down, so if I had simply worked within the state, I likely face a much smaller income loss.

I'm bound by health regulations in Memphis, which make running my business darn near impossible, yet accepting unemployment in Arkansas is not really an option because for the first 3 months of this, the state was 5 weeks behind on paying claims, and now they've removed most of the Covid protections forcing people on unemployment to regularly apply for jobs.

I'm left with a choice of either shutting things down, and taking Arkansas limited unemployment and hoping I can restart without restrictions before the benefits expire in 12 weeks, continuing to operate with restrictions, and accept a 2nd job in Arkansas on weekends, leaving me working 50 hours plus a week, or continuing to operate, and hoping to quietly ignore some of the tighter restrictions placed on us by the county and hoping we don't get caught.

None of those solutions are enviable. They are not the same choices as someone in my position in another state might face because that state has stronger worker protection.

(06-27-2020 06:41 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  I’m still awaiting results but I’m exhibiting more than half of the COVID symptoms...fever, congestion, cough, dizziness, loss of taste and smell, and yes diarrhea. Let me tell you right now...THIS SUCKS!!! I’ve crapped 4 times today and I can’t smell bacon. BACON! God’s 3rd greatest gift to mankind behind life itself and blondes with loose morals.

Wear a damn mask so that if you have it (especially if you’re asymptomatic) you don’t get someone else sick and put them through this. It isn’t infringing upon your freedom any more than putting on a shirt and shoes before you walk into the 7-11. You accept that, so quit being whiney selfish dicks about wearing a paper mask over your face. You just don’t want to wear one because you enjoy being a contrarian troll.

I only see 2-4 people per day at work, I wore a mask in most public places I went but not everywhere (that’s on me), I washed and/or sanitized my hands after coming out of every single public place I went but it wasn’t enough. PLEASE...wear a mask.

I don't think there's much anyone can do to really completely avoid getting this. There have been cases of people who haven't left their house in over a month getting this because someone with very mild symptoms of the virus was nice enough to drop groceries off at the door for them.

I have contacts with 50 or 60 different people a week through work. I've either had it by now a symptomatically, or will eventually get it. There's not much I can do about it. Had several close calls. There was a massive outbreak at a church in which I dealt with several congregants from. Had this happened now, I would have likely been tested, but this was prior to tests being readily available, so you only got tested if you were deathly ill.

(06-27-2020 06:35 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 05:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-27-2020 12:50 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  The jury is out is mass gatherings contributing to the spread of the virus?

Nah, it’s called science and some seem to only apply it when they choose.

Its part of a quandry that this pandemic is putting many members of government in. We're a nation of freedoms. We pride ourselves in our ability to have the freedom to say what we want, and express ourselves how we want without facing reprisal.

There's a virus going around. While medical research is improving on it, the only sure way proven from other countries to stop/slow the spread of the virus is by imposing severe restrictions on residents. Most European countries required written permission for a person to leave their home to go to the Grocery Store or Pharmacy during this. China used forced lockdowns, and even went as far as forced separation of families to prevent Covid from spreading within households.

Any of those measures in the US would require extremely limiting anothers rights and freedoms for a short period of time to maintain the greater good. That requires an insane amount of trust between the citizens and their leadership.

If you tell a group of George Floyd protesters that they are well within their rights to gather by the thousands to protest the deep seeded racism that has existed in the US for years, how can you then turn around and tell the Republican Party they can't hold an in person convention? There's no great answer to it, and when you get even farther into forced quarantines, and business closures, you enter into even more murky territory that simply put this country has never had to do.

Also, this is a great post. I think chiefsfan and I are closer in our leanings on this than most would assume based upon the "sides" we've fallen into.

that is because it was an intelligent well thought out post that looked at the entire picture not just one point of view

Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

Best post on this topic I have seen. You’re spot on with literally everything you said.

Rep points for you.

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

To sum up “go f yourself, it’s not my problem”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(06-28-2020 07:14 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

To sum up “go f yourself, it’s not my problem”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His body, his choice.

(06-28-2020 07:14 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

To sum up “go f yourself, it’s not my problem”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t read it as that. There is certainly a thing to the concept that someone who is vulnerable should take enough precautions that they don’t have to rely on a high degree of social responsibility from their neighbors

I know one thing that I’ve worked hard on the last 4 months is avoiding being around anyone medically compromised so I don’t infect them. I will likely will go 11 months without seeing my own father as a result.

I think each person sees the idea of social responsibility differently. There’s no one sure fire way to stop this. Even scientists agree with that. We can slow it, but in country of 300 million that’s asking for China like policies to make happen. Won’t work here

(06-28-2020 07:14 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

To sum up “go f yourself, it’s not my problem”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, it’s a “this virus isn’t all you think it is”. Shutting down the economy for this long will be more detrimental than the Virus. 54,000 deaths in the US have been from nursing homes.

Shrodinger's Facemask

(06-28-2020 01:31 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Mask or no mask, social distancing or not, this virus will continue to spread and make its way through the population. There is no stopping it, right now. Working on a vaccine to an engineered virus is not easy. Outside of a controlled environment no one knows How quickly it can or will mutate in a human host.

I almost never where a mask, unless the business that I am dealing with requires one in order for me to receive their services. I’m also pretty obsessive about hygiene and being respectful of other people and their personal space. It is not an individuals responsibility to ensure another persons well being, unless you are their parent.

If you meet the conditions that raise your risk level, take the proper precautions and protect yourself. It’s not your neighbors job to protect you. Also the CDC is clueless when it comes to an actual number of infections. They have acknowledged that there may be 8-10 times the infections that what is reported. This virus sucks and is deadly to a certain demographic, no one should deny that, but shutting down the entire country has become political grandstanding.

People die every single day. Nothing will change that. Everyone who died from COVID would die from something in the future no matter what. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Nature will always find a way”. Fight the virus with science and meds, while allowing people to go back to work and jump start the economy. Quarantine is doing way more global harm long term than this virus will in the short term.

I do not agree. My wife is immunocompromisied. We stay in more than most and go out as needed only. but the fact is we do have to go out. We have to get groceries and other essentials. I do not think another shut down should occur but it is not much to ask that masks and distancing be required in businesses. Thankfully, Houston is requiring this. We should all look out for each other and this helps those that can truely be harmed by this stay protected.

Also it is callous to say "people die". Cool 9/11 doesn't matter because they will die someday. School shootings, why stop stop them, those kids will die someday.