(06-25-2020 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 12:41 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 12:04 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Swofford conspired with ESPN to run the Big East into the ground (twice) and for what? The ACC is oversized and outside of Clemson football, underperforming.

Tin foil hattery aside, welcome to the world of 80% of revenue coming from football. Georgetown could win 10 back to back men's basketball titles and still make less money than Florida State will in their worst football season.

Yes, Swofford's great insight, and why the ACC is a P5 conference today, was realizing almost 20 years ago now that long run, there was only room for one power-level football conference on the Atlantic seaboard, and it would either be the ACC or Big East.

Goes back before Swofford was commissioner, to when the ACC added Florida State. That was the most important move. If FSU had gone elsewhere, the ACC wouldn't have made it to where they are today.

(06-25-2020 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Swofford will leave an uneven legacy - almost inevitable for someone who has been commissioner of a major conference since the middle of the Clinton administration.

But overall, given what he had to work with, you have to hand it to him: He guided the ACC through 23 very turbulent years in college athletics and where they stand right now is on pretty solid ground, firmly established as one of the five Power conferences. And the ACC isn't the SEC or B1G, so loaded with assets that it's almost impossible to screw the leadership up.

So .... a job well done.

A very well balanced viewpoint here.

I think he gets badmouthed for things that are really out of his control. I mean, he’s not suiting up NC State or Carolina to play football.

I used to see him suit up for Carolina against State every season - those are his officials you know.

(06-25-2020 02:38 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Swofford will leave an uneven legacy - almost inevitable for someone who has been commissioner of a major conference since the middle of the Clinton administration.

But overall, given what he had to work with, you have to hand it to him: He guided the ACC through 23 very turbulent years in college athletics and where they stand right now is on pretty solid ground, firmly established as one of the five Power conferences. And the ACC isn't the SEC or B1G, so loaded with assets that it's almost impossible to screw the leadership up.

So .... a job well done.

A very well balanced viewpoint here.

I think he gets badmouthed for things that are really out of his control. I mean, he’s not suiting up NC State or Carolina to play football.

I used to see him suit up for Carolina against State every season - those are his officials you know.

What's ironic is one of the things Swofford is blamed for (VT to the ACC and leaving Syracuse high and dry) was orchestrated behind his back between UVa, UNC, and Duke.

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What's ironic is one of the things Swofford is blamed for (VT to the ACC and leaving Syracuse high and dry) was orchestrated behind his back between UVa, UNC, and Duke.

VT to the ACC turned out as one of the best expansion decisions. It put a football first school, that has cultural and geographic fit, into the conference.

What are the challenges for the next commissioner?

? Increase Per-Team Revenue wrt other P5's

? Name/Image/Likeness

? Bowl Deals

? Expansion

? Protection

? Football Program Improvements

? Rebuild after Covid-19

(06-25-2020 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Swofford will leave an uneven legacy - almost inevitable for someone who has been commissioner of a major conference since the middle of the Clinton administration.

But overall, given what he had to work with, you have to hand it to him: He guided the ACC through 23 very turbulent years in college athletics and where they stand right now is on pretty solid ground, firmly established as one of the five Power conferences. And the ACC isn't the SEC or B1G, so loaded with assets that it's almost impossible to screw the leadership up.

So .... a job well done.

A very well balanced viewpoint here.

I think he gets badmouthed for things that are really out of his control. I mean, he’s not suiting up NC State or Carolina to play football.

To be fair, for the majority of his tenure neither was anyone else.

(06-25-2020 12:41 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 12:04 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Swofford conspired with ESPN to run the Big East into the ground (twice) and for what? The ACC is oversized and outside of Clemson football, underperforming.

Tin foil hattery aside, welcome to the world of 80% of revenue coming from football. Georgetown could win 10 back to back men's basketball titles and still make less money than Florida State will in their worst football season.

But FSU would pay out way more for FB. If GTown wins 10 back to back titles they would be swimming in dough. More than enough for a small Jesuit University.

(06-25-2020 03:45 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  What are the challenges for the next commissioner?

IMO, the next challenges will be dealing with the fallout of the recent lawsuits involving pay for play and NIL, combined with whatever budget crises Covid will leave.

Of course those are not ACC- specific issues but ones all the conferences will confront, and I suspect Swofford may have thought to himself "at 71, I'm maybe a bit too tired to want to deal with all that".

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What's ironic is one of the things Swofford is blamed for (VT to the ACC and leaving Syracuse high and dry) was orchestrated behind his back between UVa, UNC, and Duke.

UVA didn't orchestrate VT's inclusion with Duke and UNC. The latter two were against any expansion, requiring unanimous approval from the other 7 presidents. Contrary to popular belief, UVA's then-president (if not the fans) was supportive of VT's inclusion, and there wasn't much arm twisting by the governor to get the BOV to fall in line. There should be a statue of Casteen outside of Lane Stadium.

At the end of the day, the ACC's real goal was Miami, and a CCG. It was UM's president Donna Shalala that wanted Syracuse and BC. The ACC eventually settled on VT to guarantee the Miami invite and end the weeks-long shartshow over with... punting the question of who would be #12 down the road. There's a rumor that NCSU threatened to vote no to anyone else other than UM and VT, thinking that ND might still be in play, but I've never seen any article confirming this.

(06-25-2020 05:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Swofford will leave an uneven legacy - almost inevitable for someone who has been commissioner of a major conference since the middle of the Clinton administration.

But overall, given what he had to work with, you have to hand it to him: He guided the ACC through 23 very turbulent years in college athletics and where they stand right now is on pretty solid ground, firmly established as one of the five Power conferences. And the ACC isn't the SEC or B1G, so loaded with assets that it's almost impossible to screw the leadership up.

So .... a job well done.

A very well balanced viewpoint here.

I think he gets badmouthed for things that are really out of his control. I mean, he’s not suiting up NC State or Carolina to play football.

To be fair, for the majority of his tenure neither was anyone else.

You know, NC State really hasn't been that bad in the BCS era. Sure, they've had some dumpy 4-8 type years, like last year, but the two years before then they won 9 games.

Overall, during Swofford's 23 football seasons as commissioner, they went to 15 bowl games, winning 9 of them. Nobody is going to confuse them with a powerhouse program, but there are a lot worse ones out there, even among the P5.

(06-25-2020 06:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  But FSU would pay out way more for FB. If GTown wins 10 back to back titles they would be swimming in dough. More than enough for a small Jesuit University.

It isn't how much they pay out it's the profit margin. And that's football no contest. A mediocre big name CFB program will generate more than a CBB dynasty will. The same disparity that exists in TV revenue exists in gate revenue between the sports too. Georgetown isn't really small either. Enrollment 20,000. They're more than twice the size of Duke. Wanna tap Duke on the shoulder and ask them their CBB revenue in relation to FSU's CFB revenue?

(06-25-2020 07:04 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What's ironic is one of the things Swofford is blamed for (VT to the ACC and leaving Syracuse high and dry) was orchestrated behind his back between UVa, UNC, and Duke.

UVA didn't orchestrate VT's inclusion with Duke and UNC. The latter two were against any expansion, requiring unanimous approval from the other 7 presidents. Contrary to popular belief, UVA's then-president (if not the fans) was supportive of VT's inclusion, and there wasn't much arm twisting by the governor to get the BOV to fall in line. There should be a statue of Casteen outside of Lane Stadium.

At the end of the day, the ACC's real goal was Miami, and a CCG. It was UM's president Donna Shalala that wanted Syracuse and BC. The ACC eventually settled on VT to guarantee the Miami invite and end the weeks-long shartshow over with... punting the question of who would be #12 down the road. There's a rumor that NCSU threatened to vote no to anyone else other than UM and VT, thinking that ND might still be in play, but I've never seen any article confirming this.

Duke and UNC made an anti-expansion stance public because it put pressure on UVa to break the oral deal to add Syracuse, BC, and Miami. That was the oral deal Swofford had with their presidents. If Duke and UNC do not make that position known, MD and UVa are under no pressure and you would have ended up with an expansion that only included Miami, IF UNC and Duke didn't want VT they could have made a motion to invite Miami and then voted against VT having likely obtained MD's vote against VT. UNC and Duke wanted VT for football attendance and you see where the landed - in the Coastal.

When it came time for a vote it was over the telephone NC State's Chancellor was in France. Others were also somewhat out of pocket. The first phone call failed. The second phone call resulted in motion to jointly add Miami and VT - not a sequential vote. This odd-maned Syracuse out something that UNC and Duke also wanted at the time. The icing on the cake was NC State's Chancellor making a motion to further explore adding ND. That passed, stopping expansion for the moment at 11.

Swofford consulted the wrong people at UNC and thought he had a deal. He was especially made at NC State for ending things at 11 causing Swofford to apologize to Syracuse and BC.

Even when FSU was added, Carolina crawfished on the record and Corrigan had to tell them that they had to change their vote.

(06-25-2020 10:08 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I saw that coming....the right time for him to leave

John was in my class, I've been thinking of retirement too!

John Swofford: The man who saved the ACC
by Mark Bradley AJC

John Swofford will retire as ACC commissioner in June 2021. Had he not been the league’s commissioner these past 23 years, there mightn’t be an ACC. The league remains – 14 ½ strong. The ACC Network premiered last summer. That will be Swofford’s legacy, and it’s a shining one. Not to put too fine a point on it, but he saved the ACC.


Link
https://www.ajc.com/blog/mark-bradley/jo...B2S3Ra0LI/

(06-25-2020 07:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 05:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 10:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Swofford will leave an uneven legacy - almost inevitable for someone who has been commissioner of a major conference since the middle of the Clinton administration.

But overall, given what he had to work with, you have to hand it to him: He guided the ACC through 23 very turbulent years in college athletics and where they stand right now is on pretty solid ground, firmly established as one of the five Power conferences. And the ACC isn't the SEC or B1G, so loaded with assets that it's almost impossible to screw the leadership up.

So .... a job well done.

A very well balanced viewpoint here.

I think he gets badmouthed for things that are really out of his control. I mean, he’s not suiting up NC State or Carolina to play football.

To be fair, for the majority of his tenure neither was anyone else.

You know, NC State really hasn't been that bad in the BCS era. Sure, they've had some dumpy 4-8 type years, like last year, but the two years before then they won 9 games.

Overall, during Swofford's 23 football seasons as commissioner, they went to 15 bowl games, winning 9 of them. Nobody is going to confuse them with a powerhouse program, but there are a lot worse ones out there, even among the P5.

They play four cupcakes in OOC play and have had far more seasons with losing conference records than winning in the BCS and after era.

(06-25-2020 07:15 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 06:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  But FSU would pay out way more for FB. If GTown wins 10 back to back titles they would be swimming in dough. More than enough for a small Jesuit University.

It isn't how much they pay out it's the profit margin. And that's football no contest. A mediocre big name CFB program will generate more than a CBB dynasty will. The same disparity that exists in TV revenue exists in gate revenue between the sports too. Georgetown isn't really small either. Enrollment 20,000. They're more than twice the size of Duke. Wanna tap Duke on the shoulder and ask them their CBB revenue in relation to FSU's CFB revenue?

Duke and Miami is a good comparison because both are private schools and don't have the donor/alumni base of a large public university. Using the numbers reported to the feds, Miami's reported football revenue is $20 million/year more than Duke's reported basketball revenue. What we don't know is whether, in those reports, the two schools used the same accounting methods, particularly whether or not each school allocated portions of its share of conference revenue to different sports and how.

(06-25-2020 07:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 03:45 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  What are the challenges for the next commissioner?

IMO, the next challenges will be dealing with the fallout of the recent lawsuits involving pay for play and NIL, combined with whatever budget crises Covid will leave.

Of course those are not ACC- specific issues but ones all the conferences will confront, and I suspect Swofford may have thought to himself "at 71, I'm maybe a bit too tired to want to deal with all that".

I agree with the gist of what you say, but specifically disagree that the current issues aren't ACC specific. The ACC has a lot more private schools than any other P5 conference. The challenges being faced are gong to be tougher on privates than on state schools. So in that regard they are ACC specific.

Interesting to see what Brett McMurphy credits Swofford with:

It's a fair point. I mean, as good as Clemson has been, do we believe the Tigers would've been invited to five consecutive BCS championships? But with a four team field, they have played in five playoffs... does Swofford deserve even partial credit for getting that done? IDK, but he was a long-time advocate of the playoffs.

(06-25-2020 10:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Interesting to see what Brett McMurphy credits Swofford with:

It's a fair point. I mean, as good as Clemson has been, do we believe the Tigers would've been invited to five consecutive BCS championships? But with a four team field, they have played in five playoffs... does Swofford deserve even partial credit for getting that done? IDK, but he was a long-time advocate of the playoffs.

We likely would have been had the rest of the conference taken football serious and not been total crap. As it stands his lack of leadership and direction for the conference in the primary moneymaking sport just about made an program that hadn't lost in 28 games be relegated to the Orange Bowl and out of the playoffs.