(06-24-2020 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The CAA and Patriot might be aiming a bit to high for Howard. If they can get into the NEC I’d take it.

Doesn’t the Patriot have some sort of academic index that schools have to meet?

The Patriot League is exactly the kind of place Howard fits, IMO. It's an extremely good school, so I would assume they meet the academic criteria, and they'd get to rub shoulders with the Ivies since those two schedule each other a lot, especially in football. They strike me as pretty committed to making the MEAC work, though.

If Delaware State is already discussing an exit strategy, things are worse than I thought. The league could survive the loss of BCU, albeit uncomfortably; if a school like DSU or Morgan State leaves, it's DEFCON 1 for the rest of the MEAC.

I would assume every MEAC school is discussing an exit strategy, it would be dumb to not have a plan, I think the defcon level would have to be based on how serious they're considering it.

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 07:49 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 10:57 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 07:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The NEC should aim higher—go for Howard. Delaware St is the weakest football program in the MEAC.

Maybe Howard is aiming higher, like the CAA or Patriot.

An FBS league might even be possible with Howard leading. Add JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook, Albany,, UNH, Kennesaw St, NC AT, EKU, Jacksonville St.

It would be less complicated than a ASUN spinoff and at least give somewhere that the CAA FBS wanna bees get to be in charge.

Why would these schools form a conference with no autobid (without an NCAA waiver), no CFP money (again, barring a waiver), and increased travel for most schools?

JMU and Delaware might be looking to move up, but both are looking for a cushy landing spot, especially JMU. Eastern Kentucky has the history of success, a large enough stadium, but how many FBS football teams can Kentucky support? Jacksonville State... eh, maybe? But they might be a better fit in the Sun Belt or CUSA if some of the schools on the geographic edges of the conference decide to find a new home.

UNH, Albany, and Stony Brook do not have large enough stadiums, and UNH just renovated. Albany and Stony Brook do not have the history of success, although that does not seem to matter when considering a move up. Kennesaw State does not have the fan support for FBS, and how many FBS teams can Atlanta support? NC A&T just joined the Big South, but at least they have a large enough stadium and seem to have decent fan support. Not sure if they have the financials to move up though.

A new FBS conference would be part of the FBS payout in 2025. That is precisely why the U Presidents are poling around right now as FBS would be on sale for a few years

The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

They may want FBS for the prestige, but they don't have a viable path for it. Their stadiums are too small, and spending money to grow the stadiums now would be politically impossible. Also, are the schools supposed to not participate in FCS playoffs for four years or play as FBS independents for four years? Not every school has the money to buy games the way Liberty does at the Independent level, and certainly none of the schools on your list has that level of cash. Also, with everyone trying to cut costs, especially related to travel (and this was a point of contention before Covid), it doesn't make sense to create a G5 conference that covers 1200 miles from NH to AL, while also lumping together schools with little to no natural rivalries and therefore little to no fan enthusiasm. I know five of these schools play in the CAA, but three are football members only, and two of those are newbies that no one cares about. As a JMU fan, I might care about playing UNH and Delaware because those were rivals when I was in school. But the rest are meh at best. If JMU wouldn't make the jump for the Sun Belt or CUSA, why would they jump for this hot piece of garbage?

(06-24-2020 09:21 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The CAA and Patriot might be aiming a bit to high for Howard. If they can get into the NEC I’d take it.

Doesn’t the Patriot have some sort of academic index that schools have to meet?

The Patriot League is exactly the kind of place Howard fits, IMO. It's an extremely good school, so I would assume they meet the academic criteria, and they'd get to rub shoulders with the Ivies since those two schedule each other a lot, especially in football. They strike me as pretty committed to making the MEAC work, though.

If Delaware State is already discussing an exit strategy, things are worse than I thought. The league could survive the loss of BCU, albeit uncomfortably; if a school like DSU or Morgan State leaves, it's DEFCON 1 for the rest of the MEAC.

I would assume every MEAC school is discussing an exit strategy, it would be dumb to not have a plan, I think the defcon level would have to be based on how serious they're considering it.

It'd be better to proactively move to the CIAA in D-II rather than be left in an unsurvivable MEAC.

(06-24-2020 07:56 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  UAlbany has plans to build the other side of their stadium in case they need FBS levels of capacity, but this is not the year to take on a commitment like that.

If Albany ever did make a move toward FBS, they'd be an obvious candidate for the MAC.

As for Howard: Very good academics. I could see them in the Patriot if that's what they wanted to do.

I wonder if B-C and DelSt are just trying to get the MEAC's attention by publicly signalling their willingness to leave. Losing one would be difficult to absorb; losing both may be the event horizon moment. Perhaps it's intended as a wake-up call for the MEAC to do whatever it is they want them to do (didn't DelSt oppose turning down the FCS autobid, or was that just a rumor?)

(06-24-2020 10:02 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 09:21 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The CAA and Patriot might be aiming a bit to high for Howard. If they can get into the NEC I’d take it.

Doesn’t the Patriot have some sort of academic index that schools have to meet?

The Patriot League is exactly the kind of place Howard fits, IMO. It's an extremely good school, so I would assume they meet the academic criteria, and they'd get to rub shoulders with the Ivies since those two schedule each other a lot, especially in football. They strike me as pretty committed to making the MEAC work, though.

If Delaware State is already discussing an exit strategy, things are worse than I thought. The league could survive the loss of BCU, albeit uncomfortably; if a school like DSU or Morgan State leaves, it's DEFCON 1 for the rest of the MEAC.

I would assume every MEAC school is discussing an exit strategy, it would be dumb to not have a plan, I think the defcon level would have to be based on how serious they're considering it.

It'd be better to proactively move to the CIAA in D-II rather than be left in an unsurvivable MEAC.

From an optics standpoint, it'd be better for a program to move to D2 when it's obvious that, despite their desires, they have no choice as opposed to moving because they think it's right for them. The former is out of their control; the latter is a statement that they can't survive in D1.

(06-24-2020 10:13 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  As for Howard: Very good academics. I could see them in the Patriot if that's what they wanted to do.

What Howard wants to do is a big factor here, since Howard is the MEAC member that could be confident of finding a Div1 home. It's unlikely that Howard alumni want Howard to be the school that sticks the knife into the MEAC, so I wouldn't be looking to Howard to be making a move unless another school made a move to put MEAC out of compliance and efforts to get back to multi-sports conference status prove unsuccessful.

(06-24-2020 09:21 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The CAA and Patriot might be aiming a bit to high for Howard. If they can get into the NEC I’d take it.

Doesn’t the Patriot have some sort of academic index that schools have to meet?

The Patriot League is exactly the kind of place Howard fits, IMO. It's an extremely good school, so I would assume they meet the academic criteria, and they'd get to rub shoulders with the Ivies since those two schedule each other a lot, especially in football. They strike me as pretty committed to making the MEAC work, though.

If Delaware State is already discussing an exit strategy, things are worse than I thought. The league could survive the loss of BCU, albeit uncomfortably; if a school like DSU or Morgan State leaves, it's DEFCON 1 for the rest of the MEAC.

I would assume every MEAC school is discussing an exit strategy, it would be dumb to not have a plan, I think the defcon level would have to be based on how serious they're considering it.

Exactly, Delaware State may be considering their options, but that doesn't mean they have any. I don't see why the NEC would be open to taking a public school operating on a shoestring budget.

NEC would invite New Haven, Bentley and Southern New Hampshire before they invite Delaware State.

The article I posted about South Carolina State about them going to Big South might have more teeth when you have Bethune-Cookman and Delaware State looking to leave.

B-C to ASUN
SCSU to Big South

MEAC and Big South should trade schools. None football schools will be the MEAC and football schools in the Big South. Southern Big South schools to join the ASUN and the non-football schools join the single sports conference.

ASUN could start a southeastern football conference.

(06-24-2020 10:13 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 07:56 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  UAlbany has plans to build the other side of their stadium in case they need FBS levels of capacity, but this is not the year to take on a commitment like that.

If Albany ever did make a move toward FBS, they'd be an obvious candidate for the MAC.

As for Howard: Very good academics. I could see them in the Patriot if that's what they wanted to do.

I'd love to see a Northeastern football conference again, though I think it's very low chance of ever happening.

I know the opinion on this board is that only the WAC can ever offer FBS football again, but I really doubt the NCAA is going to stop a conference from sponsoring it if there's enough schools that meet the requirements.

It'd probably be the Colonial trying to move up en masse and add some affiliates...

Stony Brook
Albany
UConn
UMass
James Madison
Delaware

Those seem obvious choices. Then they could probably peel Buffalo from the MAC. I'm curious if that's the sort of conference that would get Army's attention - no reason they can't compete there. And you'd have decent odds of pulling Marshall and Old Dominion, which would get you to 8-9 depending on UB. Plus you'd always have Liberty as a FB-only option if nothing else.

(06-24-2020 11:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I know the opinion on this board is that only the WAC can ever offer FBS football again, but I really doubt the NCAA is going to stop a conference from sponsoring it if there's enough schools that meet the requirements.

Meeting the requirements is the hurdle. The WAC loophole is that the invite rule was written as current or former FBS conferences can invite a school up to FBS, as a concession to the WAC if they could have recovered FBS status but needed three or four years to do it rather than the two allowed by the grace period. After Boise State and SDSU announced they were leaving the MWC, the MWC's reaction kind of killed any chance the WAC had to get back to eight.

But the other side of it is the mechanics of getting an FBS qualifying schedule, when a transitioning school counts as an FBS game for an FBS school, but it doesn't count as an FBS game for a transitioning school.

And you need five FBS home games in the second year of your transition to complete the transition and be a full fledged FBS school.

To boostrap the process, you'd need to have three northeastern schools fight the fight to move up as Independents, throwing enough money at the home game problem to solve it. Then two more moving up as independents can play in-season H/A schedules against each other and those three and UMass, and with an FCS counter home game for the transitioning school, you've got five home games all around. Then two more moving up as independents can have a looser schedule without H/A games all around and make it. And then assuming they have been playing their basketball as members of a conference with continuity, that conference can petition to be an FBS conference once it has eight full fledged FBS schools as members.

When Liberty got their waiver, they could just throw money at the problem of getting enough FBS home games, but if there were that many Northeastern FB programs with that kind of money to throw around, there would already be a Northeastern FBS conference.

It's a horrible mess of a process, but it's definitely not outside of the rules of there are enough schools who can credibly threaten to go to court on the basis of meeting all FBS criteria except for the conference invitation and they can get a waiver of that requirement (which under the rules can indeed be waived, under an amendment they passed in order to be able to waive the requirement for Liberty and avoid the court fight).

If they are going to do that, they need to get going in a year or two if they want to have a seat at the table when the next CFP is negotiated.

(06-24-2020 11:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 11:12 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I know the opinion on this board is that only the WAC can ever offer FBS football again, but I really doubt the NCAA is going to stop a conference from sponsoring it if there's enough schools that meet the requirements.

Meeting the requirements is the hurdle. The WAC loophole is that the invite rule was written as current or former FBS conferences can invite a school up to FBS, as a concession to the WAC if they could have recovered FBS status but needed three or four years to do it rather than the two allowed by the grace period. After Boise State and SDSU announced they were leaving the MWC, the MWC's reaction kind of killed any chance the WAC had to get back to eight.

But the other side of it is the mechanics of getting an FBS qualifying schedule, when a transitioning school counts as an FBS game for an FBS school, but it doesn't count as an FBS game for a transitioning school.

And you need five FBS home games in the second year of your transition to complete the transition and be a full fledged FBS school.

To boostrap the process, you'd need to have three northeastern schools fight the fight to move up as Independents, throwing enough money at the home game problem to solve it. Then two more moving up as independents can play in-season H/A schedules against each other and those four, and with an FCS counter home game for the transitioning school, you've got five home games all around. Then two more moving up as independents can have a looser schedule without H/A games all around and make it. And then assuming they have been playing their basketball as members of a conference with continuity, that conference can petition to be an FBS conference once it has eight full fledged FBS schools as members.

When Liberty got their waiver, they could just throw money at the problem of getting enough FBS home games, but if there were that many Northeastern FB programs with that kind of money to throw around, there would already be a Northeastern FBS conference.

It's a horrible mess of a process, but it's definitely not outside of the rules of there are enough schools who can credibly threaten to go to court on the basis of meeting all FBS criteria except for the conference invitation and they can get a waiver of that requirement (which under the rules can indeed be waived, under an amendment they passed in order to be able to waive the requirement for Liberty and avoid the court fight).

I tend to think that if the Colonial was seeking to move up as a whole, that the NCAA would waive a lot of those requirements.

The bigger challenge for a new conference, in my mind, would be negotiating to be part of the CFP/Access Bowl and the G5 distributions, since the G5 are obviously not going to agree to reduced distributions for themselves. So someone would have to give up money for this new conference to be a member.

(06-24-2020 11:37 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I tend to think that if the Colonial was seeking to move up as a whole, that the NCAA would waive a lot of those requirements.

I don't see why the Colonial would have enough clout to counter the obvious behind the scenes pushback there would be from the Go5 and other FCS conference members.

It's a different dynamic when it's about a conference retaining its current status, since having the precedent that special efforts are made for a conference fighting to hold onto its status is going to have broad appeal among Universities who can imagine their own conference running into some kind of problem due to realignment.

Quote: The bigger challenge for a new conference, in my mind, would be negotiating to be part of the CFP/Access Bowl and the G5 distributions, since the G5 are obviously not going to agree to reduced distributions for themselves. So someone would have to give up money for this new conference to be a member.

That why the negotiation of the new CFP contract is a critical deadline for completing the process ... getting a seat at the table when the contract is being negotiated is a lot more likely than getting anybody to agree to modify the existing contract to your benefit and their loss.

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 07:49 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 10:57 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 07:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The NEC should aim higher—go for Howard. Delaware St is the weakest football program in the MEAC.

Maybe Howard is aiming higher, like the CAA or Patriot.

An FBS league might even be possible with Howard leading. Add JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook, Albany,, UNH, Kennesaw St, NC AT, EKU, Jacksonville St.

It would be less complicated than a ASUN spinoff and at least give somewhere that the CAA FBS wanna bees get to be in charge.

Why would these schools form a conference with no autobid (without an NCAA waiver), no CFP money (again, barring a waiver), and increased travel for most schools?

JMU and Delaware might be looking to move up, but both are looking for a cushy landing spot, especially JMU. Eastern Kentucky has the history of success, a large enough stadium, but how many FBS football teams can Kentucky support? Jacksonville State... eh, maybe? But they might be a better fit in the Sun Belt or CUSA if some of the schools on the geographic edges of the conference decide to find a new home.

UNH, Albany, and Stony Brook do not have large enough stadiums, and UNH just renovated. Albany and Stony Brook do not have the history of success, although that does not seem to matter when considering a move up. Kennesaw State does not have the fan support for FBS, and how many FBS teams can Atlanta support? NC A&T just joined the Big South, but at least they have a large enough stadium and seem to have decent fan support. Not sure if they have the financials to move up though.

A new FBS conference would be part of the FBS payout in 2025. That is precisely why the U Presidents are poling around right now as FBS would be on sale for a few years

The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

The existing FBS conferences will NOT allow a Johnny-come-lately league that brings no new money to the table to get a piece of the CFP pie. It will NEVER happen. The P5 aren't going to give more money as a share to the G5 (now 6 in your plan). The current G5 aren't going to give any of their share of the money to a new league.

Also, the SUNYs wanting FBS is not a thing. The State legislature will not give them any money to do it. Any funding would have to come from the Universities themselves, and there is no way they can do it on the backs of the students. Politically, this is a non-starter.

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

Well, they should crap in one hand and want in the other and see which fills up faster.

Ain’t happening

(06-24-2020 01:15 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 07:49 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 06:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 10:57 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Maybe Howard is aiming higher, like the CAA or Patriot.

An FBS league might even be possible with Howard leading. Add JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook, Albany,, UNH, Kennesaw St, NC AT, EKU, Jacksonville St.

It would be less complicated than a ASUN spinoff and at least give somewhere that the CAA FBS wanna bees get to be in charge.

Why would these schools form a conference with no autobid (without an NCAA waiver), no CFP money (again, barring a waiver), and increased travel for most schools?

JMU and Delaware might be looking to move up, but both are looking for a cushy landing spot, especially JMU. Eastern Kentucky has the history of success, a large enough stadium, but how many FBS football teams can Kentucky support? Jacksonville State... eh, maybe? But they might be a better fit in the Sun Belt or CUSA if some of the schools on the geographic edges of the conference decide to find a new home.

UNH, Albany, and Stony Brook do not have large enough stadiums, and UNH just renovated. Albany and Stony Brook do not have the history of success, although that does not seem to matter when considering a move up. Kennesaw State does not have the fan support for FBS, and how many FBS teams can Atlanta support? NC A&T just joined the Big South, but at least they have a large enough stadium and seem to have decent fan support. Not sure if they have the financials to move up though.

A new FBS conference would be part of the FBS payout in 2025. That is precisely why the U Presidents are poling around right now as FBS would be on sale for a few years

The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

The existing FBS conferences will NOT allow a Johnny-come-lately league that brings no new money to the table to get a piece of the CFP pie. It will NEVER happen. The P5 aren't going to give more money as a share to the G5 (now 6 in your plan). The current G5 aren't going to give any of their share of the money to a new league.

Also, the SUNYs wanting FBS is not a thing. The State legislature will not give them any money to do it. Any funding would have to come from the Universities themselves, and there is no way they can do it on the backs of the students. Politically, this is a non-starter.

It's like Coastal Carolina and Texas St were such vicious FCS teams that they were forced to move up. Constant false argument. Presidents want to move up for more awareness.

(06-24-2020 02:11 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's like Coastal Carolina and Texas St were such vicious FCS teams that they were forced to move up. Constant false argument. Presidents want to move up for more awareness.

Awareness...and state funding. North Texas went from being a third-tier school in funding to a seat alongside Texas Tech and Houston in the legislature. Still not UT or Texas A&M, but a big jump.

Would they have been similarly funded in the Southland? Doubtful at best.

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  A new FBS conference would be part of the FBS payout in 2025. That is precisely why the U Presidents are poling around right now as FBS would be on sale for a few years

The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

You say that as if it were true. It's not. There is no requirement that anybody be a part of the next CFP contract. If the P5 were to decide that enough is enough with FCS to FBS moveups, they could just cut everybody out but themselves and negotiate separately with the media and the bowls.

If a school is moving up just to get some "free money" they are liable to be disappointed.

(06-24-2020 02:22 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 02:11 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's like Coastal Carolina and Texas St were such vicious FCS teams that they were forced to move up. Constant false argument. Presidents want to move up for more awareness.

Awareness...and state funding. North Texas went from being a third-tier school in funding to a seat alongside Texas Tech and Houston in the legislature. Still not UT or Texas A&M, but a big jump.

Would they have been similarly funded in the Southland? Doubtful at best.

The New York State Legislature is not going to give more money to Stony Brook or Albany because they are FBS. They are going to wonder where Stony Brook or Albany got the money to move up, and why it wasn't spent on education.

(06-24-2020 06:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-24-2020 08:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  A new FBS conference would be part of the FBS payout in 2025. That is precisely why the U Presidents are poling around right now as FBS would be on sale for a few years

The SUNYs want FBS soon as their would be more prestige than FCS.

You say that as if it were true. It's not. There is no requirement that anybody be a part of the next CFP contract. If the P5 were to decide that enough is enough with FCS to FBS moveups, they could just cut everybody out but themselves and negotiate separately with the media and the bowls.

If a school is moving up just to get some "free money" they are liable to be disappointed.

Everything that goes through NoDak's head is true to him, except for when it turns out false every time in an fantastically embarrassing manner. That's why we all love him.