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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12301
RE: Trump Administration
So, Antifa declare an autonomous zone. The first thing they do: BUILD THE WALL. To keep specific groups out.

You cant make this **** up.

(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 11:35 AM by tanqtonic.)
06-11-2020 11:33 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12302
RE: Trump Administration
Doubly good:

Edited to add: the asshats in the 'autonomous zone' are now not allowing any entrance without a full search. Can anyone say 'stop and frisk'? The idiocy of the left in full view.



Edited to add: I just realized with the above I pulled a 'whack a mole'. My apologies.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 12:12 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-11-2020 11:37 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12303
RE: Trump Administration
I just read this piece from 93's favorite go-to citation spot, Vox.

When you read the piece, this publication seemingly (actually not seemingly, explicitly) calls on the MSM to ban op-eds by pro-Trumpers. At the same time the author describes Trump and any of his supporters as a “racist authoritarian movement”. Because of that -- no more balanced reporting; only note Republican evil; then again. Specifically targeted, mentioned, and highlighted is Tom Cotton's recent op-ed in the NY Times.

Let's take this journalist at his word, and assume all the bad indictments. He notes that "[The Times management] fashion themselves old-school, small-l liberals, devoted to an open marketplace of ideas where a range of differing views can be heard." That is, the traditional view of classical liberalism.

But, he then makes a plea to abandon any pretense of such classic liberalism since Trump and all such are “racist authoritarians”, the rules of discourse should pay zero heed to such ideals of classic liberalism. In his view, fascists don’t get rights. They arent worthy of rights.

Seemingly it is progressives that have forsaken classical liberalism. They wholeheartedly embrace identitarian socialistic politics. It is the progressive campus administrators who short shrift the ideals of both classical liberalism and the ideals of their institutions by allowing violent activities and thuglike behavior to suppress speakers -- select speakers who have a message that differ from these administrators and the philosophies they hold. Progressives seemingly have distorted the concept of liberalism itself into a justification for censorship.

And when I say progressives, I mean the meat of the Democratic party with this.

Seemingly the modern Left has completely forsaken the ideas and principles of liberalism, and neo-liberalism. In their absence they now tightly cling to the replacement ideals of identity politics and apparently the tag along cousin of the concept that argument by simply alleging bigotry is valid.

I guess it is telling that I would unashamedly say that I have zero issue with very illiberal stances, like the one referenced in the mouthpiece Vox above, not being struck from the pages of discourse. In fact, I highly encourage *all* POV to have such stature. Yet, those supposed guardians of the truth actually are seemingly copacetic with that very highly illiberal stance.

93, Lad -- read the link above. I would like to hear your takes on it. Disturbing? Honestly, I dont expect much from 93, as most of what comes down the pike from him is regurgitated talking points, and when a cogent response is offered up he scurries from anything more than a surface dive like the possums that run away from my outdoor garage light.

Perhaps after reading it you might understand the references to Maoism and Cultural Revolution a bit more clearly.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 12:47 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-11-2020 12:41 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #12304
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 12:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Seemingly it is progressives that have forsaken classical liberalism. They wholeheartedly embrace identitarian socialistic politics. It is the progressive campus administrators who short shrift the ideals of both classical liberalism and the ideals of their institutions by allowing violent activities and thuglike behavior to suppress speakers -- select speakers who have a message that differ from these administrators and the philosophies they hold. Progressives seemingly have distorted the concept of liberalism itself into a justification for censorship.
And when I say progressives, I mean the meat of the Democratic party with this.

They don't care about liberalism or liberty or freedom. They have an Alinsky socialist/communist "progressive" agenda to implement, and whatever action is needed to neuter any opposition is okay.

Obama was their fair-haired boy who was going to get it all done, but he didn't. Then the hope was Hillary, but she couldn't win. Now they are just mad as hell, and determined to find a way to get their way.

I wish republicans were as devotedly committed to a classical liberal, liberty, and freedom agenda. But they just aren't. And as long as they aren't, we will just drift toward the "progressive" agenda.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 01:30 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
06-11-2020 12:58 PM
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MerseyOwl Offline
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Post: #12305
RE: Trump Administration
The centrist view or position keeps drifting toward the Left. Rather than recognise this drift, 'Centrists' just recalibrate their political compass. If one tries to move back toward the right, you get vilified by the Left and the Centrists.
06-11-2020 05:11 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #12306
RE: Trump Administration
(06-10-2020 11:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-10-2020 04:00 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  FYI, Tanq, this is the type of statement that I was responding to:

OptimisticOwl, June 3:

Quote:But I will say that nearly every protest that results in violence/rioting/arson/vandalism is either a left wing protest or left wingers attacking a right wing protest. I cannot think of an exception to that statement, but there might be one or two.

Show me how I am wrong, 93. Give me all the exceptions.

I know it takes a while to compile a list. The one I compiled for lad that he is studiously ignoring took about 15 minutes.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 05:41 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-11-2020 05:40 PM
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Post: #12307
RE: Trump Administration
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/po...tform.html

The RNC decided to keep its GOP Platform intact from the 2016 convention. It includes more than three dozen unflattering references to the president (was Obama in 2016 but now it's Trump) and the White House. Maybe it wasn't a mistake or laziness - maybe the RNC just can't stand the current administration either.

COGS
06-11-2020 05:52 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #12308
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 11:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Doubly good:

Edited to add: the asshats in the 'autonomous zone' are now not allowing any entrance without a full search. Can anyone say 'stop and frisk'? The idiocy of the left in full view.



Edited to add: I just realized with the above I pulled a 'whack a mole'. My apologies.

The leader has been walking around with an AK-47. I guess he is the police within the Zone. Or at least the one who decides who gets shot.

Demands include an abolition of the police department and a retrial of all minorities convicted of violent crimes.

I am sure Lad and 93 are so proud.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 06:40 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-11-2020 06:37 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #12309
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 11:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Doubly good:

Edited to add: the asshats in the 'autonomous zone' are now not allowing any entrance without a full search. Can anyone say 'stop and frisk'? The idiocy of the left in full view.



Edited to add: I just realized with the above I pulled a 'whack a mole'. My apologies.

It's not "stop and frisk". It is Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Well, it is stopping and frisking while enforcing the border.
06-11-2020 06:43 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12310
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 06:43 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 11:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Doubly good:

Edited to add: the asshats in the 'autonomous zone' are now not allowing any entrance without a full search. Can anyone say 'stop and frisk'? The idiocy of the left in full view.



Edited to add: I just realized with the above I pulled a 'whack a mole'. My apologies.

It's not "stop and frisk". It is Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Well, it is stopping and frisking while enforcing the border.

I wonder if protests will erupt within the Antifa camp demanding 'No AICE' ---- Antifa Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
06-11-2020 08:58 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12311
RE: Trump Administration
I assume from the silence lad and 93 are okay dandy with their team's fun games of 'cancel culture'.

Or maybe they were canceled themselves. Maybe not.

The silence is deafening. Kind of hard to support that you think telling all the asshats you disagree with the notion that they shouldnt be stalked, harassed, threatened, or fired for noting a viewpoint -- when that enforced silence allows nothing but your message to be sent.

I wonder what they think what will happen when half the populace is defined as bigots without rights — no voices permitted to contradict this, and shitbirds baying for people to be 'removed' from jobs and positions for double bad ungood speak — I wonder what they think will happen to civil peace?

In relation to that here is another juicy item: New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and professors across US seek economist's removal from top job at academic journal after he criticized calls to defund police and 'trivialized' Black Lives Matter's campaign

or perhaps this: SMU Law School "Revokes Incoming Student's Admission Over Allegedly Racist Posts"

I guess our resident leftists are just fine with the way their team is turning very rapidly into proto-brownshirts. Yet they dance up and down and do a slap happy 'high five' noting every instance of 'authoritarian wannabe' from Trump (absent much authoritarianism) but are silent as clams with actual authoritarianism becoming the standard rules of engagement from their team.

A chance to really note true and *actual* mob rule and authoritarianism --- and what is the response: <crickets>.

Kind of funny, kind of sad. Completely predictable.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2020 09:29 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-11-2020 09:22 PM
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Post: #12312
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 09:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I assume from the silence lad and 93 are okay dandy with their team's fun games of 'cancel culture'.

I don't think they are fine with it. I think they just cannot defend it and cannot bring themselves to agree with us. The old rock and a hard place dilemma.
06-11-2020 11:20 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12313
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 11:20 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 09:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I assume from the silence lad and 93 are okay dandy with their team's fun games of 'cancel culture'.

I don't think they are fine with it. I think they just cannot defend it and cannot bring themselves to agree with us. The old rock and a hard place dilemma.

I hope. The alternative is that they are in agreement with or condone the wave of brownshirt activity that is bubbling furiously on the left. Or that they just give a ****, which in some ways might be worse....
06-11-2020 11:34 PM
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Post: #12314
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 11:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 11:20 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 09:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I assume from the silence lad and 93 are okay dandy with their team's fun games of 'cancel culture'.

I don't think they are fine with it. I think they just cannot defend it and cannot bring themselves to agree with us. The old rock and a hard place dilemma.

I hope. The alternative is that they are in agreement with or condone the wave of brownshirt activity that is bubbling furiously on the left. Or that they just give a ****, which in some ways might be worse....

I think they are just idealists, who perceive the world as divided into two parts - racists and nonracists, or, IOW, conservatives and liberals, respectively. That is why they see us as deplorables. That is why they see a conservative with a gun as dangerous. That is why everything is built on the notions of white supremacists and racist police forces.

So when presented with evidence that 99% of the violence is coming from their side, and 95% of the inane ideas like the GND, they first defend their side, then attack the other side, and finally fall silent.
06-12-2020 07:14 AM
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Post: #12315
RE: Trump Administration
(06-11-2020 11:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 11:20 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-11-2020 09:22 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I assume from the silence lad and 93 are okay dandy with their team's fun games of 'cancel culture'.

I don't think they are fine with it. I think they just cannot defend it and cannot bring themselves to agree with us. The old rock and a hard place dilemma.

I hope. The alternative is that they are in agreement with or condone the wave of brownshirt activity that is bubbling furiously on the left. Or that they just give a ****, which in some ways might be worse....

I think they are just idealists, who perceive the world as divided into two parts - racists and nonracists, or, IOW, conservatives and liberals, respectively. That is why they see us as deplorables. That is why they see a conservative with a gun as dangerous. That is why everything is built on the notions of white supremacists and racist police forces.

So when presented with evidence that 99% of the violence is coming from their side, and 95% of the inane ideas like the GND, they first defend their side, then attack the other side, and finally fall silent.
06-12-2020 07:14 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #12316
RE: Trump Administration
It is interesting that note that not more than two days ago one of the duo said this:

Quote:Just pointing out the not infrequent claptrap of you guys on the right overgeneralizing the left

Arguably one of of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the massive predilection of progressives to be more than willing to use whatever means necessary to utterly silence any dissenting point of view. Not 'ignore' them, but to collect scalps from those who state them.

Arguably another of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the utter abandonment not just of objectivity and the rise of very prominent bias in the MSM. And not just calls for a justification of such bias, but a call that it is perfectly acceptable because of 'moral imperative' (that last quote from 93's favorite go-to of Vox, mind you)

Arguably another of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the willingness to use violence as a means to an end to itself, or as a means to silence a viewpoint.

So in his rather not-well-thought through attempt to indict such 'overgeneralizations' 93 also complained of such 'claptrap' and that the 'claptrappers' ostensibly 'ignor[ed] the same issues on your side.'

Yes, violence initiated by the right wing does happen. As OO said, perhaps you should list out this amazing laundry list that cries out to be revealed. <crickets>

Quote:FYI we leftists don't like the looting, arson, and murder either.

Then why does your team so easily become the wielder and initiator of that violence at the onset? And why much, much more than from the right? Again, looking for your hard compendium of this. My guess it will be much of the same combination of generalized slop thrown at a wall that was proffered as *proof* of 'systemic racism' with the comparable amount of simple silence that both of you have shown when your broad as barn language was actually challenged.

Turning away from the violence issue, and going back to your quote:

How about a statement that "FYI we leftists don't like acting like brownshirts and using cancel culture to fire people"?

That seems entirely appropriate given our potential 'claptrap' on progressives being the archetypical proto-fascists and proto-Maoists. Seems that that observation is coming true in the real world right before our very eyes. Funny that neither of you seems to have the backbone to address this issue. Not a peep.
06-12-2020 07:56 AM
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Post: #12317
RE: Trump Administration
(06-12-2020 07:56 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  It is interesting that note that not more than two days ago one of the duo said this:

Quote:Just pointing out the not infrequent claptrap of you guys on the right overgeneralizing the left

Arguably one of of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the massive predilection of progressives to be more than willing to use whatever means necessary to utterly silence any dissenting point of view. Not 'ignore' them, but to collect scalps from those who state them.

Arguably another of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the utter abandonment not just of objectivity and the rise of very prominent bias in the MSM. And not just calls for a justification of such bias, but a call that it is perfectly acceptable because of 'moral imperative' (that last quote from 93's favorite go-to of Vox, mind you)

Arguably another of those 'overgeneralizations' from that 'claptrap' is the willingness to use violence as a means to an end to itself, or as a means to silence a viewpoint.

So in his rather not-well-thought through attempt to indict such 'overgeneralizations' 93 also complained of such 'claptrap' and that the 'claptrappers' ostensibly 'ignor[ed] the same issues on your side.'

Yes, violence initiated by the right wing does happen. As OO said, perhaps you should list out this amazing laundry list that cries out to be revealed. <crickets>

Quote:FYI we leftists don't like the looting, arson, and murder either.

Then why does your team so easily become the wielder and initiator of that violence at the onset? And why much, much more than from the right? Again, looking for your hard compendium of this. My guess it will be much of the same combination of generalized slop thrown at a wall that was proffered as *proof* of 'systemic racism' with the comparable amount of simple silence that both of you have shown when your broad as barn language was actually challenged.

Turning away from the violence issue, and going back to your quote:

How about a statement that "FYI we leftists don't like acting like brownshirts and using cancel culture to fire people"?

That seems entirely appropriate given our potential 'claptrap' on progressives being the archetypical proto-fascists and proto-Maoists. Seems that that observation is coming true in the real world right before our very eyes. Funny that neither of you seems to have the backbone to address this issue. Not a peep.

Bro, chill... work has been busy as has family stuff. Not everybody can take the time to compose a post whenever you feel like fighting. Your invitation to debate on this topic was, ummm... super-inviting to be sure.

I haven't had time to read the article. I have made my views on the bias of MSM clear here previously. I am not a fan of cancel culture and I don't want to live in a world were opposing views are suppressed. I'd like to pick up the paper and read an opinion piece that is wildly different from my world view. I think it's dangerous to drive culture towards a singular "groupthink".

So I'll read the article when I get a chance. I'm probably going to disappoint you by agreeing with your POV more than not. In the meantime you guys keep whipping each other into a frenzy.
06-12-2020 08:19 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #12318
RE: Trump Administration
(06-12-2020 08:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I am not a fan of cancel culture and I don't want to live in a world were opposing views are suppressed. I'd like to pick up the paper and read an opinion piece that is wildly different from my world view. I think it's dangerous to drive culture towards a singular "groupthink".

Good to hear. You need to work on becoming a voice to be listened to by your fellow leftists, because you appear to be in a shrinking minority. But there is the danger that you would be expelled by swimming against the stream. You could become the next Drew Brees. Come along to get along.

If you want to pick up a paper and read an opinion that is different from your world view, do not chose the NYT. There, they edit the editors.
06-12-2020 08:30 AM
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Post: #12319
RE: Trump Administration
Here is today's example of biased reporting that makes me dismiss WashPo as a source of news or opinion.

Trump's most loyal media ally
\
I wonder who they think is Biden's most loyal media ally?

Final line of this "news" report:

"After all, Trump’s not going to want to watch that. We don’t want him switching over to Fox, now, do we?"
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2020 08:53 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-12-2020 08:49 AM
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Post: #12320
RE: Trump Administration


LAW AND ORDER! vs. Rule of law
06-12-2020 08:57 AM
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