(05-19-2020 05:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 04:24 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't understand the incredible anger some people are showing towards folks who wear masks. I'm wearing a mask at work (indoors - not outdoors when I head to the street) because quite frankly, I work with a bunch of fools who I don't trust well enough to stay healthy. Whether or not it keeps me healthy is certainly questionable, but the argument it's making me sicker is incredibly foolish. Are those same people saying that on a super cold day, you can't wear scarves outside because you're also limiting your oxygen intake?

Some people aren't going to wear masks and that's fine, although I don't want them coming up to me to invade my personal space if I'm uncomfortable with that. At the same time, I don't know how anyone can get mad at me for wearing a mask. People have been doing that in other countries for years. It can also be a cool fashion statement - my wife just made me a new Purdue mask that I love. I'm going to also ask her to make me a Rice one.

Another question - why is requiring masks any different from requiring people to wear clothes? I guess I'm not talking clothes in general, but there are plenty of restaurants that say no shoes, no shirt, no service (especially ones near beaches or swimming pools). I don't see where the requirement to wear masks is any different from that type of sign.

Wearing masks may increase your risk of coronavirus infection, expert says

https://www.news-medical.net/news/202003...-says.aspx

Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/su...index.html

You're quoting two stories from March. Things have changed a ton since then. Do you want me to find what Trump was saying about this back in early March?

I have half a dozen masks which I change out every day and wash overnight in the washer and dryer.

(05-19-2020 06:21 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 05:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 04:24 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't understand the incredible anger some people are showing towards folks who wear masks. I'm wearing a mask at work (indoors - not outdoors when I head to the street) because quite frankly, I work with a bunch of fools who I don't trust well enough to stay healthy. Whether or not it keeps me healthy is certainly questionable, but the argument it's making me sicker is incredibly foolish. Are those same people saying that on a super cold day, you can't wear scarves outside because you're also limiting your oxygen intake?

Some people aren't going to wear masks and that's fine, although I don't want them coming up to me to invade my personal space if I'm uncomfortable with that. At the same time, I don't know how anyone can get mad at me for wearing a mask. People have been doing that in other countries for years. It can also be a cool fashion statement - my wife just made me a new Purdue mask that I love. I'm going to also ask her to make me a Rice one.

Another question - why is requiring masks any different from requiring people to wear clothes? I guess I'm not talking clothes in general, but there are plenty of restaurants that say no shoes, no shirt, no service (especially ones near beaches or swimming pools). I don't see where the requirement to wear masks is any different from that type of sign.

Wearing masks may increase your risk of coronavirus infection, expert says

https://www.news-medical.net/news/202003...-says.aspx

Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/su...index.html

You're quoting two stories from March. Things have changed a ton since then. Do you want me to find what Trump was saying about this back in early March?

I have half a dozen masks which I change out every day and wash overnight in the washer and dryer.

Do you honestly think the physics and associated logic has changed since March? Of course not. Masks can trap the virus. And if you touch it at ll, you ruin it's ability to protect you, however small it was to start with.

Wear it if you like. I wouldn't make fun of you. But if you think it's protecting you from anything, it's not. You're doing others a favor if you're coughing or sneezing.

Which reminds me, there is zero proof that you can spread the virus when you're asymptomatic, b/c your natural antibodies are still keeping the virus under control.

No. But I wear mine 1. due to a lack of clear consensus from the public health community, 2. to ease the worries of those around me who feel like I need to wear it, and 3. to show I take Covid 19 seriously and want others to as well (by helping create a herd mindset to watch our risk-taking behavior during the pandemic). Do I think they help much? No. Do I think they harm much? Also no. Ask me again in a month and the answer may differ.

What is with people insisting you can't spread this or other viruses while asymptomatic? Asymptomatic carriers and spreaders have been an important thing long before COVID, this isn't some shocking new revelation. Just insane.

(05-19-2020 03:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 02:14 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Same principal applies. If it lets the virus in it's also letting the virus out.

It's not about the virus as much as it is about the fluids that the virus 'rides' upon.

A surgical mask on 'me' doesn't reduce the amount of liquid released by your cough or sneeze.... that has an opportunity to infect me not only through my mouth and nose, but my eyes... and as a secondary contributor, to my hands and surfaces that I might touch. The virus can live on plastic and metal surfaces for many hours. It does demonstrably meaningfully reduce the amount of liquid released by the sneezer (which is the carrier for the virus) AND the distance that fluid travels.

The point of a mask in more open places (where social distancing is easy) is to augment/replace sneezing into a tissue as a means of limiting the spread... and no, not only do 'sick' people sneeze or cough or speak loud or spit a little when they speak. Here is a solid article on the whole issue. https://theconversation.com/should-we-we...ion-135135 it even explains why 'six feet'. This number comes from this 'evidence'.

N95 masks (when worn properly which most people don't know how to do) DO help protect the wearer.

The CDC recognizes presymptomatic or asymptomatic transmission... https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article
They note epidemiological, virologic and modeling evidence of it... but more important, not everyone would recognize mild symptoms and seek medical attention or self-quarantine... so you could absolutely be symptomatic, but perhaps a mild case, or you're just not aware of what the symptoms are... or which ones you have.

Now, if you want to argue the statistics, that's fine... Yes, someone in flu blown and serious infection has 'more' of the virus than someone who doesn't. We're now arguing over the definition of 'a lot', which seems rather pointless as honest people can disagree not only on the definition of 'a lot', but as to what steps are 'reasonable' in response to 'a lot'.... but still... if I work in healthcare and someone with the disease sneezes and it falls to my shoes, and I use my hands to remove my shoes and then touch the credit card machine at the cafeteria, you could get it from someone with no infection whatsoever.

N95's are uncomfortable.... and absolutely restrict air flow. That's their job. Bandanas or surgical masks don't need to be uncomfortable. Yes, they can be uncomfortable at times and of course, you can get too hot breathing behind one and need to 'air it out' to avoid sweating, but still... sweat is a more controlled release than a cough or sneeze... and if you're putting your mask on and off at reasonable intervals, you can catch the overwhelming majority of unintentional 'spray' while not risking sweating through your mask and defeating (somewhat) the purpose.

LOL

These masks do not even stop all of the water droplets.

Put your homemade mask on and open your freezer. Exhale. That cloud you see is body temperature water droplets.

So yes, it might stop the covid saturated loogie you hocked up when you sneezed. Problem is when you reached up and adjusted your mask that became dislodged and slid off your nose when you sneezed you just transferred the virus to your hands, which you will now transfer to the next few things that you touch.

As I have stated many, many times....the science behind PPE hasn't changed just because the government wanted to give the masses a placebo.

(05-19-2020 04:24 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't understand the incredible anger some people are showing towards folks who wear masks. I'm wearing a mask at work (indoors - not outdoors when I head to the street) because quite frankly, I work with a bunch of fools who I don't trust well enough to stay healthy. Whether or not it keeps me healthy is certainly questionable, but the argument it's making me sicker is incredibly foolish. Are those same people saying that on a super cold day, you can't wear scarves outside because you're also limiting your oxygen intake?

Some people aren't going to wear masks and that's fine, although I don't want them coming up to me to invade my personal space if I'm uncomfortable with that. At the same time, I don't know how anyone can get mad at me for wearing a mask. People have been doing that in other countries for years. It can also be a cool fashion statement - my wife just made me a new Purdue mask that I love. I'm going to also ask her to make me a Rice one.

Another question - why is requiring masks any different from requiring people to wear clothes? I guess I'm not talking clothes in general, but there are plenty of restaurants that say no shoes, no shirt, no service (especially ones near beaches or swimming pools). I don't see where the requirement to wear masks is any different from that type of sign.

You have it backwards. People are angry at the Nazis (those in government and those out of government) who try to impose their choices on everyone else.

(05-19-2020 06:42 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  No. But I wear mine 1. due to a lack of clear consensus from the public health community, 2. to ease the worries of those around me who feel like I need to wear it, and 3. to show I take Covid 19 seriously and want others to as well (by helping create a herd mindset to watch our risk-taking behavior during the pandemic). Do I think they help much? No. Do I think they harm much? Also no. Ask me again in a month and the answer may differ.

1. is fine.
2. and 3. are ridiculous.

(05-19-2020 06:46 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What is with people insisting you can't spread this or other viruses while asymptomatic? Asymptomatic carriers and spreaders have been an important thing long before COVID, this isn't some shocking new revelation. Just insane.

Actually the reports early on was that you were most contagious a day or two before you showed symptoms.

Now whether someone who never gets symptoms can spread it is not clear. But someone who is in the early stages of bad symptoms can spread it.

(05-19-2020 07:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:42 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  No. But I wear mine 1. due to a lack of clear consensus from the public health community, 2. to ease the worries of those around me who feel like I need to wear it, and 3. to show I take Covid 19 seriously and want others to as well (by helping create a herd mindset to watch our risk-taking behavior during the pandemic). Do I think they help much? No. Do I think they harm much? Also no. Ask me again in a month and the answer may differ.

1. is fine.
2. and 3. are ridiculous.

2. I don't feel like having every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane walk up to me to scream "WHERES YOUR MASK? THERE ARE CHILDREN AROUND". Some people are incredibly anxious over this. Since I frankly dgaf, I consider it a service to them to wear it.

3. If I go out and see everyone properly social distancing, wearing masks, watching where they cough and touch objects, I will be more mindful as well. If I walk outside and it's bedlam and no one gives a f, I will be less careful. I'm sure it's the same for most people.

I don't wear one at my office job, there's almost no one here and I am never close to anyone. I don't wear one just outside while walking my dog and stuff, but I do wear one when I go to stores. In general I try to stay away from people I don't know, so social distancing doesn't bother me too much haha.

(05-20-2020 07:58 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 07:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:42 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  No. But I wear mine 1. due to a lack of clear consensus from the public health community, 2. to ease the worries of those around me who feel like I need to wear it, and 3. to show I take Covid 19 seriously and want others to as well (by helping create a herd mindset to watch our risk-taking behavior during the pandemic). Do I think they help much? No. Do I think they harm much? Also no. Ask me again in a month and the answer may differ.

1. is fine.
2. and 3. are ridiculous.

2. I don't feel like having every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane walk up to me to scream "WHERES YOUR MASK? THERE ARE CHILDREN AROUND". Some people are incredibly anxious over this. Since I frankly dgaf, I consider it a service to them to wear it.

3. If I go out and see everyone properly social distancing, wearing masks, watching where they cough and touch objects, I will be more mindful as well. If I walk outside and it's bedlam and no one gives a f, I will be less careful. I'm sure it's the same for most people.

Children aren't the issue with this disease, so people are stupid, or maybe it was just your example. And why are people anxious over this? Could it be the Fear preaching MSM?

(05-19-2020 06:46 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What is with people insisting you can't spread this or other viruses while asymptomatic? Asymptomatic carriers and spreaders have been an important thing long before COVID, this isn't some shocking new revelation. Just insane.

I'm not insane, lol. I repeated what I heard from a doctor who said if you're asymptomatic, your body is doing enough to fight off the virus, so it's unlikely you are spreading the disease.

However, after your comment, I did some quick research, and you're correct. Typhoid Mary was a good example.

So, I either misheard him, or missed part of what he said, or he was making a point without the caveat. Maybe he was saying if you're asymptomatic, you're not as contagious as when you are coughing and sneezing.

(05-20-2020 09:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:46 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What is with people insisting you can't spread this or other viruses while asymptomatic? Asymptomatic carriers and spreaders have been an important thing long before COVID, this isn't some shocking new revelation. Just insane.

I'm not insane, lol. I repeated what I heard from a doctor who said if you're asymptomatic, your body is doing enough to fight off the virus, so it's unlikely you are spreading the disease.

However, after your comment, I did some quick research, and you're correct. Typhoid Mary was a good example.

So, I either misheard him, or missed part of what he said, or he was making a point without the caveat. Maybe he was saying if you're asymptomatic, you're not as contagious as when you are coughing and sneezing.

I think the key word in your statement is "unlikely" and I had heard the same thing. If you are asymptomatic, the theory is/was that you body was fighting the virus, so there was less active virus in your system or that could be shared. But I am not a Dr, nor play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

(05-20-2020 08:12 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-20-2020 07:58 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 07:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:42 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  No. But I wear mine 1. due to a lack of clear consensus from the public health community, 2. to ease the worries of those around me who feel like I need to wear it, and 3. to show I take Covid 19 seriously and want others to as well (by helping create a herd mindset to watch our risk-taking behavior during the pandemic). Do I think they help much? No. Do I think they harm much? Also no. Ask me again in a month and the answer may differ.

1. is fine.
2. and 3. are ridiculous.

2. I don't feel like having every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane walk up to me to scream "WHERES YOUR MASK? THERE ARE CHILDREN AROUND". Some people are incredibly anxious over this. Since I frankly dgaf, I consider it a service to them to wear it.

3. If I go out and see everyone properly social distancing, wearing masks, watching where they cough and touch objects, I will be more mindful as well. If I walk outside and it's bedlam and no one gives a f, I will be less careful. I'm sure it's the same for most people.

Children aren't the issue with this disease, so people are stupid, or maybe it was just your example. And why are people anxious over this? Could it be the Fear preaching MSM?

Because initially NO ONE, not scientists, not health officials, not politicians, not the public, knew how dangerous this was. It's easy to laugh in hindsight but it could've had a very different outcome. The unknown for anything infections is anxiety causing.

Yes, people are stupid. As are children, who can become carriers and infect those more at risk. That said, I was just making an example up on the fly.

First, let me state that in addition to the early date of the article... and thus limited information (I believe one was 3/2, when we had like 50 cases in the US)... the calculus is very different, and the article is really talking about N95 masks, which are a different story. The article clearly says, we need these masks for healthcare workers... if he was saying they didn't work, why would he be saying that?

(05-19-2020 05:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Do you honestly think the physics and associated logic has changed since March? Of course not. Masks can trap the virus. And if you touch it at ll, you ruin it's ability to protect you, however small it was to start with.

The physics haven't changed, but the calculus clearly has.
As to the physics... your comment here implies that you don't have it and would be better off having the disease hit your face because you weren't wearing a mask... than if you wore a mask that 'trapped' the virus and then you touched it. The physics of that makes zero sense. If the mask trapped it, you would have been exposed 100% of the time without the mask. IF you mess up and touch the mask... and then IF you touch your mouth or nose... you are exposed.... which is something less than 100% of the time. Saying that this somehow implies that the mask does no good and could make it worse is factually incorrect.... not to mention that nobody has suggested a mask, but not watching what you touch or frequent hand-washing. If you wear a mask, you should wash your hands and the mask (or replace it if you can) frequently.... but if it only cuts the exposure frequency by 50%, that's just as effective as the flu vaccine. If you have it and it traps it on the inside, that only proves that it kept at least SOME of the VOLUME of the disease from being transmitted. Even if you wiped the loogie out of the mask and then wiped your hand on a handrail, you've still left some of the disease on the mask... and the diseases is concentrated in a smaller area.

The fact that you can find an article that supports a minority opinion does not remotely make it the consensus 'best practice'. I can still find articles suggesting that Trump is a Russian asset.

Quote:Wear it if you like. I wouldn't make fun of you. But if you think it's protecting you from anything, it's not. You're doing others a favor if you're coughing or sneezing.

I'm glad you support people making their own choices. There are many who don't.... some on here. I agree that it is mostly about protecting others, but it DOES protect you to a VERY minor extent... and mostly it is a constant reminder to be mindful of the situation... both to the wearer and those around them. It DOES protect you from touching something or someone that was exposed, and then touching your mouth. Yes, you can fail and go around the mask, but again... if you only do that half the time, then it was effective.

Quote:Which reminds me, there is zero proof that you can spread the virus when you're asymptomatic, b/c your natural antibodies are still keeping the virus under control.

actually there is proof... it's on the CDC website and I linked it.... and you could more likely be symptomatic, but because you're healthy and have a strong immune system, brush the mild fever, occasional cough or mild nausea off as 'something else'.

(05-19-2020 06:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL

These masks do not even stop all of the water droplets.

Put your homemade mask on and open your freezer. Exhale. That cloud you see is body temperature water droplets.

So yes, it might stop the covid saturated loogie you hocked up when you sneezed. Problem is when you reached up and adjusted your mask that became dislodged and slid off your nose when you sneezed you just transferred the virus to your hands, which you will now transfer to the next few things that you touch.

As I have stated many, many times....the science behind PPE hasn't changed just because the government wanted to give the masses a placebo.

Nobody said it did stop all the water. Even an N95 doesn't. The fact that you're having to argue with something nobody said should tell you something. Do your same experiment with an N95, with a mask and with nothing. It's the volume that you are reducing, and the less of something you put out there, the less likely it is to infect others.

Again, your example without a mask... you sneeze and spread that same disease randomly over 15 feet (large AND small particles) rather than 6 (mostly small particles). That's meaningful... and you probably put your hand within that sneeze spray, so you're still in a better situation IF you wear a mask but then do everything wrong... vs not wearing one. If you adjust your mask and then wash or sanitize your hands which is the suggested protocol... you're much better off.

You're right that the science behind PPE hasn't changed... Healthcare workers wear masks in addition to frequent hand washing, gelling in and out, AND they require flu shots or masks by all employees during flu season, even those who don't touch patients... and regularly offer masks for free in clinics and hospitals during flu season to reduce the transmission. OBVIOUSLY they do it because it works better than doing nothing... and that hasn't changed.

Again, I'm not saying that we should have done all that has been done. IMO, a lot of it is very clearly over-kill.
What I'm saying is that 'good flu hygiene', which includes masks, gloves, sanitizing wipes, hand washing and hand sanitizer... ALL things that existed and were practiced, even at your grocery store IS a best practice. It DOES reduce the spread of casually spread diseases like this one. A big part of flu prevention is also the vaccine that about half the population gets... When faced with something that we believe is 'worse' than flu, and doesn't have a vaccine etc etc etc, it is a good idea for even more people to practice good hygiene. I can't believe that doesn't make sense to everyone.

It's almost universally scientifically supported, it's demonstrable, it's logical, it's courteous and the 'harm' of it is next to zero. Don't throw in 'closing beaches' and 'laying off workers' with the above.... but also stop saying that 'they cause harm' or 'they don't work' when on average, they so demonstrably do... AND... acceptance of this means we don't give politicians ammunition to do a lot more to halt the spread.

(05-20-2020 12:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 06:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL

These masks do not even stop all of the water droplets.

Put your homemade mask on and open your freezer. Exhale. That cloud you see is body temperature water droplets.

So yes, it might stop the covid saturated loogie you hocked up when you sneezed. Problem is when you reached up and adjusted your mask that became dislodged and slid off your nose when you sneezed you just transferred the virus to your hands, which you will now transfer to the next few things that you touch.

As I have stated many, many times....the science behind PPE hasn't changed just because the government wanted to give the masses a placebo.

Nobody said it did stop all the water. Even an N95 doesn't. The fact that you're having to argue with something nobody said should tell you something. Do your same experiment with an N95, with a mask and with nothing. It's the volume that you are reducing, and the less of something you put out there, the less likely it is to infect others.

Again, your example without a mask... you sneeze and spread that same disease randomly over 15 feet (large AND small particles) rather than 6 (mostly small particles). That's meaningful... and you probably put your hand within that sneeze spray, so you're still in a better situation IF you wear a mask but then do everything wrong... vs not wearing one. If you adjust your mask and then wash or sanitize your hands which is the suggested protocol... you're much better off.

You're right that the science behind PPE hasn't changed... Healthcare workers wear masks in addition to frequent hand washing, gelling in and out, AND they require flu shots or masks by all employees during flu season, even those who don't touch patients... and regularly offer masks for free in clinics and hospitals during flu season to reduce the transmission. OBVIOUSLY they do it because it works better than doing nothing... and that hasn't changed.

Again, I'm not saying that we should have done all that has been done. IMO, a lot of it is very clearly over-kill.
What I'm saying is that 'good flu hygiene', which includes masks, gloves, sanitizing wipes, hand washing and hand sanitizer... ALL things that existed and were practiced, even at your grocery store IS a best practice. It DOES reduce the spread of casually spread diseases like this one. A big part of flu prevention is also the vaccine that about half the population gets... When faced with something that we believe is 'worse' than flu, and doesn't have a vaccine etc etc etc, it is a good idea for even more people to practice good hygiene. I can't believe that doesn't make sense to everyone.

It's almost universally scientifically supported, it's demonstrable, it's logical, it's courteous and the 'harm' of it is next to zero. Don't throw in 'closing beaches' and 'laying off workers' with the above.... but also stop saying that 'they cause harm' or 'they don't work' when on average, they so demonstrably do... AND... acceptance of this means we don't give politicians ammunition to do a lot more to halt the spread.

Ell Oh Ell

I guess you think that if you poke tiny holes in a condom it's still safe sex because even though it still let Syphilis bacteria though it might have stopped some.

Here's how good one of these wonder masks that defy the science of PPE did against sheetrock dust, something much larger than the covid virus and much easier to catch.


News flash: If it can get in it can get out.

And the harm to wearing a mask is not next to zero. The increased hands to face contact as you adjust the mask, clean the fog off your glasses, etc. increases the chance of transmission of covid and any other number of communicable diseases via touch contacts. Masks create a false sense of security from the overwhelmingly ignorant in our society causing them to not put as much emphasis on the things that actually do make a difference in preventing the transmission of this and other viruses. There is also the risk of skin irritation that leads to sores which create another avenue for all kinds of infections.

While we are on the subject, here's another thing the CDC told us that they now have changed. Now they say coronavirus does not easily spread via contaminated surfaces, as they once thought.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-now-s...d-surfaces

(05-20-2020 07:58 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  2. I don't feel like having every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane walk up to me to scream "WHERES YOUR MASK? THERE ARE CHILDREN AROUND". Some people are incredibly anxious over this. Since I frankly dgaf, I consider it a service to them to wear it.

3. If I go out and see everyone properly social distancing, wearing masks, watching where they cough and touch objects, I will be more mindful as well. If I walk outside and it's bedlam and no one gives a f, I will be less careful. I'm sure it's the same for most people.

Agree with you JD

Graybeard, as to your comment... You're correct that children aren't really an issue, so maybe he should have said 'seniors are around'... but I have a friend who isn't a senior, isn't compromised and had a stroke as a result of this. He would have had no reason to suspect he was 'high risk'.... as to people being 'stupid'.... while certainly somewhat true, I think in this scenario its more about people being nervous/anxious/fearful of the unknown... especially if death of a loved one is a possible outcome. Trying to 'bully' people into not being nervous about the unknown (like a few posters on here seem to want to do) is counter-productive to anyone that knows anything about the psychology of anxiety. You only steel them in their concern.... and 'those' people aren't necessarily 'stupid', and they vote... and it appears that there are a whole lot of them... That's why the media stokes that fire, because it sells. "calm' doesn't sell as well. This is the best example I can give of the uphill battle we face in trying to keep this shut down from happening again... and 'bullying' anxious people is counter-productive.

I would describe the people that JD was describing as 'Karens'... and there are MILLIONS of them. Those aren't usually the anxious people... but they're the ones that stir the anxious people up.

So you've got the pro-government sphincter-police Karens (who are probably 30-40% of the population) and the 'anxious' about death (It'd be a guess as to that percentage, but it's a good amount) on one side... which is apparently a REALLY big number... well more than 50%.... and then you've got people like me and it seems JD and others, who are pragmatic about it... and then those like Kap and a few others who think they can simply 'badger' these anxious people into not being anxious. You're not going to change Karen, and you don't have a big shot at bullying anxious people. The best weapon you have for those people is simply downplaying the issue... yeah, I wear a mask when it makes sense and I don't when it doesn't. I'm careful (or not) as I see fit and I support people doing similar. That sort of attitude has the best shot of soothing anxious people... If you're anxious, wear a mask... I support that decision for you... and (while you may NEVER see ME in a mask) you will likely see most other people doing so and I support them as well. Collectively, we've got this under control (even though I personally may be doing nothing about it). The parenthetical comments are what you think, but don't say in order to not stoke the anxiety or give 'Karen' a target.

(05-20-2020 02:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Ell Oh Ell

I guess you think that if you poke tiny holes in a condom it's still safe sex because even though it still let Syphilis bacteria though it might have stopped some.

Here's how good one of these wonder masks that defy the science of PPE did against sheetrock dust, something much larger than the covid virus and much easier to catch.


News flash: If it can get in it can get out.

So you once again argue with something I never said.... in fact something I specifically said the opposite... using condescending drivel to try and add weight to untrue statements. Yes, if it can get in, it can get out. Only a moron would argue that wearing a mask didn't reduce the VOLUME, SPREAD or INTENSITY with which it got out. Hell, we USED to be encouraged to sneeze into a tissue. They reduce the volume, spread and intensity. That's all they're designed to do, and they do it. To your condom drivel... do a sperm count at your local sperm bank using a condom with a hole and no condom. Also check your 'distance'. We both know the results.

I can't see your image, but I suspect that in addition to a lot that got through... it shows particulate stuck to the mask... all of which quite clearly did NOT get through. Show me a perfectly clean and dry mask and you'll have a point. Other than that, you're arguing with something NOBODY has said. Go find someone saying that, and argue with them.

Quote:And the harm to wearing a mask is not next to zero. The increased hands to face contact as you adjust the mask, clean the fog off your glasses, etc. increases the chance of transmission of covid and any other number of communicable diseases via touch contacts. Masks create a false sense of security from the overwhelmingly ignorant in our society causing them to not put as much emphasis on the things that actually do make a difference in preventing the transmission of this and other viruses. There is also the risk of skin irritation that leads to sores which create another avenue for all kinds of infections.

It is ridiculous to argue that these people are so ignorant as to not be able to negotiate a simple mask, but they will somehow be smart enough to manage to do all these other things. If what you say is true, then healthcare workers wouldn't wear them.... but instead would JUST do those other things. It's an 'and', not an 'or'.... as for people who get skin irritations or have breathing issues, use your brain... Kap. If you can't wear one without hurting yourself, then don't wear one. Do something else. Nobody ever suggested different. You're having to add the words 'always' or 'never' to what i said to make your point.

The risk is close to zero because only a FOOL would do what you describe.... and that fool is going to do other even more stupid things..... like try to ingest clorox. If you think the whole country is fools, you're just supporting 'Karen's' position. People are too stupid to manage their fluids, so the government needs to manage it for them.

What if gubermant mandates you stick a peacock feather up your arse. Would you do that? It keeps elephants away. Dont be selfish

(05-20-2020 07:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  What if gubermant mandates you stick a peacock feather up your arse. Would you do that? It keeps elephants away. Dont be selfish

I'm thinking it would tickle ham's bone as he smiled in return....