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Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-16-2020 01:35 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 12:02 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  03-puke
(05-16-2020 11:22 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:13 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 06:35 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  None of them will agree to be merged into another. It will only happen if some form of new independent name-neutral umbrella university is formed for them to join. Which would be an instant AAC school.

Than let Akron go bankrupt. No state bailout whatsoever. Let nature take its course and correct the mistake of absorbing it into the state system in the first place. UT and Wright State too. Let it force OU and BGSE and Cleveland State into their proper roles in a rationale state system. No more empire building.

In a perfect world, the Univesity System of Ohio would have been given the mandate and political support to enact and manage such changes. That's not Ohio politics, however, so perhaps it will need to be done with the harsher and more abrupt hand of economics.

Nobody's asking for a state bailout. Akron will make cuts and use its reserves as necessary to continue as a going educational concern and support its physical investments. What it wouldn't do is voluntarily give up its name, history, strengths, etc. to be absorbed into another regional U. If Tosu wants to keep getting bigger (IDKITD) and/or ease congestion on the main campus it would make the most sense in the population center of NE Ohio where a lot of its students (and fans) are from. Things are ripe for the picking during a major crisis like this.

Nope^ I don’t see in anyway in which acquiring Akron would boost Ohio State’s national or international perception which has been the main focus for the last couple of decades especially since 2010.

In a few select areas it actually would, but that wasn't the point..

Name one, please. The polymer program folded into their vastly superior Chemistry and Chemical Engineering departments is the only thing I can think of that they might want. Do you really think they're going to take on all of UA to get that. If it were important to them, they'd just invest the money into building up a homegrown program. Just because Akron might have a decent program here or there, it's safe to assume that OSU already has a much better one.

Actually, the only campus that I can seem them having an interest in would be Wright State as a research oriented branch campus tied into Wright-Patterson.
 
05-16-2020 01:40 PM
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-16-2020 12:23 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 12:02 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  03-puke
(05-16-2020 11:22 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:13 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 06:35 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  None of them will agree to be merged into another. It will only happen if some form of new independent name-neutral umbrella university is formed for them to join. Which would be an instant AAC school.

Than let Akron go bankrupt. No state bailout whatsoever. Let nature take its course and correct the mistake of absorbing it into the state system in the first place. UT and Wright State too. Let it force OU and BGSE and Cleveland State into their proper roles in a rationale state system. No more empire building.

In a perfect world, the Univesity System of Ohio would have been given the mandate and political support to enact and manage such changes. That's not Ohio politics, however, so perhaps it will need to be done with the harsher and more abrupt hand of economics.

Nobody's asking for a state bailout. Akron will make cuts and use its reserves as necessary to continue as a going educational concern and support its physical investments. What it wouldn't do is voluntarily give up its name, history, strengths, etc. to be absorbed into another regional U. If Tosu wants to keep getting bigger (IDKITD) and/or ease congestion on the main campus it would make the most sense in the population center of NE Ohio where a lot of its students (and fans) are from. Things are ripe for the picking during a major crisis like this.

Nope^ I don’t see in anyway in which acquiring Akron would boost Ohio State’s national or international perception which has been the main focus for the last couple of decades especially since 2010.

OSU already has a branch campus in Mansfield. They have zero need or desire to take on Akron.

Mansfield is a bit outside of the Cleveland/Akron metro. They also have the ATI and OARDC Ag facilities in Wooster Ohio so they already have a significant presence in Akron's back yard...synergies, anyone? Neither of us knows what all might be in their future plans, which can evolve base on changing circumstances and opportunities.
 
05-16-2020 06:06 PM
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-16-2020 11:11 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:38 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:13 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 06:35 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  None of them will agree to be merged into another. It will only happen if some form of new independent name-neutral umbrella university is formed for them to join. Which would be an instant AAC school.

Than let Akron go bankrupt. No state bailout whatsoever. Let nature take its course and correct the mistake of absorbing it into the state system in the first place. UT and Wright State too. Let it force OU and BGSE and Cleveland State into their proper roles in a rationale state system. No more empire building.

In a perfect world, the Univesity System of Ohio would have been given the mandate and political support to enact and manage such changes. That's not Ohio politics, however, so perhaps it will need to be done with the harsher and more abrupt hand of economics.

it wouldn't be the university system of ohio. it would be the ohio state university system and my alma mater would be rebranded as ohio state university at Cincinnati (osuC) Bearcats. UC ain't exempt from slippery slopes.

California has two systems- the University of California and California State. Arguably we could be the Cal State of those two models. Also for branding perhaps it could be like the State University of New York were Schools like Buffalo, Albany, Stony Brook, etc have kept their individual brand.

Ideally, I would see tiers, each with its own funding model, allowable levels of grad/professional programs and undergrad selectivity.

Tier 1: OSU (flagship international research university, which is essentially just recognizing the reality on the ground)
Tier 2: UC (comprehensive national research university with selective admissions)
Tier 3: OU, Miami, merged UT-BG and merged KSU-AU (essentially, the old "four corners" campuses" (state schools with varying levels of undergraduate selectivity and limited doctoral, professional and research programs)
Tier 4: WSU, YSU, Shawnee CSU (open admission schools with extremely limited grad programs serving regional needs)

Miami is really the only odd fit since it's turned itself into Chicago's safety school to keep its selectivity somewhat competitive with OSU. Maybe just turn it loose as a private school. It clearly doesn't care about serving as an Ohio public university, and Ohio seems to feel the same way about it since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids who have admission to both OSU and Miami choose OSU.

UC should approach Miami about combining to become a "2nd flagship" / P5 / AAU-candidate type of university a la Michigan State, Iowa State etc.
 
05-16-2020 06:15 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.
 
05-17-2020 09:22 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-16-2020 06:15 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:11 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 11:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:38 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:13 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Than let Akron go bankrupt. No state bailout whatsoever. Let nature take its course and correct the mistake of absorbing it into the state system in the first place. UT and Wright State too. Let it force OU and BGSE and Cleveland State into their proper roles in a rationale state system. No more empire building.

In a perfect world, the Univesity System of Ohio would have been given the mandate and political support to enact and manage such changes. That's not Ohio politics, however, so perhaps it will need to be done with the harsher and more abrupt hand of economics.

it wouldn't be the university system of ohio. it would be the ohio state university system and my alma mater would be rebranded as ohio state university at Cincinnati (osuC) Bearcats. UC ain't exempt from slippery slopes.

California has two systems- the University of California and California State. Arguably we could be the Cal State of those two models. Also for branding perhaps it could be like the State University of New York were Schools like Buffalo, Albany, Stony Brook, etc have kept their individual brand.

Ideally, I would see tiers, each with its own funding model, allowable levels of grad/professional programs and undergrad selectivity.

Tier 1: OSU (flagship international research university, which is essentially just recognizing the reality on the ground)
Tier 2: UC (comprehensive national research university with selective admissions)
Tier 3: OU, Miami, merged UT-BG and merged KSU-AU (essentially, the old "four corners" campuses" (state schools with varying levels of undergraduate selectivity and limited doctoral, professional and research programs)
Tier 4: WSU, YSU, Shawnee CSU (open admission schools with extremely limited grad programs serving regional needs)

Miami is really the only odd fit since it's turned itself into Chicago's safety school to keep its selectivity somewhat competitive with OSU. Maybe just turn it loose as a private school. It clearly doesn't care about serving as an Ohio public university, and Ohio seems to feel the same way about it since 9 out of 10 Ohio kids who have admission to both OSU and Miami choose OSU.

UC should approach Miami about combining to become a "2nd flagship" / P5 / AAU-candidate type of university a la Michigan State, Iowa State etc.

Not that they would ever lower themselves to collaborate with a lowly public Ohio University, but Miami really doesn't have anything we want or need to be honest. We just need to continue to ratchet up our student recruiting and admissions while investing in UC's academic and research profile. UC has a great research reputation, a world class medical center and our undergraduate reputation and selectivity are a lot closer to Miami than they would like to believe.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 09:26 AM by Bearcat 1985.)
05-17-2020 09:26 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 09:38 AM by mptnstr@44.)
05-17-2020 09:31 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yeah, that's pretty much the entire state outside of the Cincy metro area. Still, I'm sure one would have seen Miami sprinkled a few times on that list 20-25 years ago. For Miami, that list is an indicator of their dramatic decline from where they were. For us, that list is an opportunity for growth.
 
05-17-2020 09:46 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.
 
05-17-2020 12:20 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.
 
05-17-2020 12:34 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

Interesting to compare the top feeder schools for UC and OSU.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/n...g/461451/1

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/new...g/442138/1

A lot of Cincinnati and Cleveland on the OSU list.

From SW Ohio: Ursiline (25), Lakota West (23), Centerville (17), Sycamore (14), St. X (3), William Mason (1)

UC's list is all SW Ohio (Centerville is the furthest away from campus).

That's a lot of room to grow our brand awareness around the state, and touching on what's said above, a key component of that should be highlighting the changes to both campus and OTR.
 
05-17-2020 12:56 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
^ UC should be striving to get more kids from Greater Columbus. There are a lot of fine suburban schools, and I am willing to bet that behind OSU the #2 option for those kids are another B10 school or Ohio University.
 
05-17-2020 01:13 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 01:13 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^ UC should be striving to get more kids from Greater Columbus. There are a lot of fine suburban schools, and I am willing to bet that behind OSU the #2 option for those kids are another B10 school or Ohio University.

One of the things that I'd love to see is the state cap OSU's freshman classes at 6K/year. Or more likely politically, it's something that OSU does voluntarily in exchange for things it wants. That would free up about a thousand high quality kids. Most would end up at another Ohio public, and I think UC is in the best position to get them, even ahead of Miami.
 
05-17-2020 01:24 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 01:24 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 01:13 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^ UC should be striving to get more kids from Greater Columbus. There are a lot of fine suburban schools, and I am willing to bet that behind OSU the #2 option for those kids are another B10 school or Ohio University.

One of the things that I'd love to see is the state cap OSU's freshman classes at 6K/year. Or more likely politically, it's something that OSU does voluntarily in exchange for things it wants. That would free up about a thousand high quality kids. Most would end up at another Ohio public, and I think UC is in the best position to get them, even ahead of Miami.

I think you're vastly overestimating how many in-state students end up in Columbus for their freshmen years. OSU's Main Campus incoming classes are pretty much 50/50 between in-state and OOS students now. That's actually the reason why everyone else in the state has been having "record breaking achievement" in their intake classes...OSU is taking less in-staters, and they're choosing other schools. That's what got UC where they are now, they jumped on that boat far earlier than most of the other schools and made it work to their advantage in the late 2000's. Essentially it was a "would you rather spend 1 year in Lima/Mansfield/Newark and 3 in Columbus, or 4 in Cincinnati?" People started picking the latter and the rest is history.

I think you know just as well as I do that there is no way an administration would ever cap an enrollment quota, especially from their home state. That's just taking your whole budget to Vegas and betting it on black.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 03:18 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-17-2020 03:14 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

If you actually look at the Clery Act Disclosures for each Ohio institution, Miami is the least safe campus in the state by violent crimes (mostly due to their astronomical rape and assault counts every year) and it isn't even close. Cincinnati and Ohio State are very similar when it comes to crimes per student population, but OSU has a higher gross number simply due to the larger enrollment and larger amount of properties. The "safest" campus in the state over the last 4 years (by violent crimes/enrollment) has been Toledo as weird as that may seem for some people...followed closely behind by Kent State then Ohio University. There's a marked drop off between those three and the next 4 of Akron, Cincinnati, Ohio State, and Bowling Green, then another dropoff between that group and Cleveland State, Wright State, and Miami. Keep in mind, these are based on criminal reporting statistics, so that doesn't include crimes that may have been committed but were not reported to LEOs or crimes that were not reported by victims (I'd guess Miami would be even further apart from everyone else if every rape reported to campus authorities that wasn't pursued in criminal investigations due to individuals not pressing criminal charges).

For people who really want something crazy to think about...over the last 3 years there were 162 criminal cases of sex offenses (Clery lists Rape, Sodomy, Sexual Assault w/Object, Fondling all under that but very rarely is it anything but rape or sexual assault) where someone was charged and legal proceedings moved forward at Miami. If there were 162 different victims, and if we hold to the 95% rule (95% of Clery sex offenses are perpetrated against women on college campuses), that means that there were 154 different women assaulted on campus during the last 4 years. Putting their female enrollment in there that would mean you have a higher likelihood of being the victim of a criminal rape during your academic career at Miami-Oxford (1.9%) than receiving a 4.00 GPA while there (0.9%)...and that's not even including the unreported cases...which would probably move that closer to 3% when it's all said and done. If I have a daughter, she will never even look at Miami U, specifically for that reason.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 03:37 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-17-2020 03:22 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 03:22 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

If you actually look at the Clery Act Disclosures for each Ohio institution, Miami is the least safe campus in the state by violent crimes (mostly due to their astronomical rape and assault counts every year) and it isn't even close. Cincinnati and Ohio State are very similar when it comes to crimes per student population, but OSU has a higher gross number simply due to the larger enrollment and larger amount of properties. The "safest" campus in the state over the last 4 years (by violent crimes/enrollment) has been Toledo as weird as that may seem for some people...followed closely behind by Kent State then Ohio University. There's a marked drop off between those three and the next 4 of Akron, Cincinnati, Ohio State, and Bowling Green, then another dropoff between that group and Cleveland State, Wright State, and Miami. Keep in mind, these are based on criminal reporting statistics, so that doesn't include crimes that may have been committed but were not reported to LEOs or crimes that were not reported by victims (I'd guess Miami would be even further apart from everyone else if every rape reported to campus authorities that wasn't pursued in criminal investigations due to individuals not pressing criminal charges).

For people who really want something crazy to think about...over the last 3 years there were 162 criminal cases of sex offenses (Clery lists Rape, Sodomy, Sexual Assault w/Object, Fondling all under that but very rarely is it anything but rape or sexual assault) where someone was charged and legal proceedings moved forward at Miami. If there were 162 different victims, and if we hold to the 95% rule (95% of Clery sex offenses are perpetrated against women on college campuses), that means that there were 154 different women assaulted on campus during the last 4 years. Putting their female enrollment in there that would mean you have a higher likelihood of being the victim of a criminal rape during your academic career at Miami-Oxford (1.9%) than receiving a 4.00 GPA while there (0.9%)...and that's not even including the unreported cases...which would probably move that closer to 3% when it's all said and done. If I have a daughter, she will never even look at Miami U, specifically for that reason.

Is there an easy way to find this information? I was having a discussion/argument with a friend a few days ago about crime around OSU compared to crime around UC.
 
05-17-2020 04:27 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 04:27 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 03:22 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

If you actually look at the Clery Act Disclosures for each Ohio institution, Miami is the least safe campus in the state by violent crimes (mostly due to their astronomical rape and assault counts every year) and it isn't even close. Cincinnati and Ohio State are very similar when it comes to crimes per student population, but OSU has a higher gross number simply due to the larger enrollment and larger amount of properties. The "safest" campus in the state over the last 4 years (by violent crimes/enrollment) has been Toledo as weird as that may seem for some people...followed closely behind by Kent State then Ohio University. There's a marked drop off between those three and the next 4 of Akron, Cincinnati, Ohio State, and Bowling Green, then another dropoff between that group and Cleveland State, Wright State, and Miami. Keep in mind, these are based on criminal reporting statistics, so that doesn't include crimes that may have been committed but were not reported to LEOs or crimes that were not reported by victims (I'd guess Miami would be even further apart from everyone else if every rape reported to campus authorities that wasn't pursued in criminal investigations due to individuals not pressing criminal charges).

For people who really want something crazy to think about...over the last 3 years there were 162 criminal cases of sex offenses (Clery lists Rape, Sodomy, Sexual Assault w/Object, Fondling all under that but very rarely is it anything but rape or sexual assault) where someone was charged and legal proceedings moved forward at Miami. If there were 162 different victims, and if we hold to the 95% rule (95% of Clery sex offenses are perpetrated against women on college campuses), that means that there were 154 different women assaulted on campus during the last 4 years. Putting their female enrollment in there that would mean you have a higher likelihood of being the victim of a criminal rape during your academic career at Miami-Oxford (1.9%) than receiving a 4.00 GPA while there (0.9%)...and that's not even including the unreported cases...which would probably move that closer to 3% when it's all said and done. If I have a daughter, she will never even look at Miami U, specifically for that reason.

Is there an easy way to find this information? I was having a discussion/argument with a friend a few days ago about crime around OSU compared to crime around UC.

Everything has to be public, just search for Clery Act Disclosures. There isn't a central repository (that non-necessary people can access) but every University has to post that information on their websites. Keep in mind, in order to qualify for a Clery Act Reportable Offense, the crime must involve a student or take place on University used or owned property, so "around campus" isn't the same as on campus here...in order to find that, you'd probably have to look at area crime statistics by precinct if the PD overseeing the area reports those numbers publicly.
 
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 04:35 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-17-2020 04:31 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 04:31 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 04:27 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 03:22 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

If you actually look at the Clery Act Disclosures for each Ohio institution, Miami is the least safe campus in the state by violent crimes (mostly due to their astronomical rape and assault counts every year) and it isn't even close. Cincinnati and Ohio State are very similar when it comes to crimes per student population, but OSU has a higher gross number simply due to the larger enrollment and larger amount of properties. The "safest" campus in the state over the last 4 years (by violent crimes/enrollment) has been Toledo as weird as that may seem for some people...followed closely behind by Kent State then Ohio University. There's a marked drop off between those three and the next 4 of Akron, Cincinnati, Ohio State, and Bowling Green, then another dropoff between that group and Cleveland State, Wright State, and Miami. Keep in mind, these are based on criminal reporting statistics, so that doesn't include crimes that may have been committed but were not reported to LEOs or crimes that were not reported by victims (I'd guess Miami would be even further apart from everyone else if every rape reported to campus authorities that wasn't pursued in criminal investigations due to individuals not pressing criminal charges).

For people who really want something crazy to think about...over the last 3 years there were 162 criminal cases of sex offenses (Clery lists Rape, Sodomy, Sexual Assault w/Object, Fondling all under that but very rarely is it anything but rape or sexual assault) where someone was charged and legal proceedings moved forward at Miami. If there were 162 different victims, and if we hold to the 95% rule (95% of Clery sex offenses are perpetrated against women on college campuses), that means that there were 154 different women assaulted on campus during the last 4 years. Putting their female enrollment in there that would mean you have a higher likelihood of being the victim of a criminal rape during your academic career at Miami-Oxford (1.9%) than receiving a 4.00 GPA while there (0.9%)...and that's not even including the unreported cases...which would probably move that closer to 3% when it's all said and done. If I have a daughter, she will never even look at Miami U, specifically for that reason.

Is there an easy way to find this information? I was having a discussion/argument with a friend a few days ago about crime around OSU compared to crime around UC.

Everything has to be public, just search for Clery Act Disclosures. There isn't a central repository (that non-necessary people can access) but every University has to post that information on their websites. Keep in mind, in order to qualify for a Clery Act Reportable Offense, the crime must involve a student or take place on University used or owned property, so "around campus" isn't the same as on campus here...in order to find that, you'd probably have to look at area crime statistics by precinct if the PD overseeing the area reports those numbers publicly.

gotcha thanks.. for what we're discussing it'd probably be more neighborhood crime as opposed to dorm room crime.
 
05-17-2020 04:53 PM
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Cattidude Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 12:56 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

Interesting to compare the top feeder schools for UC and OSU.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/n...g/461451/1

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/new...g/442138/1

A lot of Cincinnati and Cleveland on the OSU list.

From SW Ohio: Ursiline (25), Lakota West (23), Centerville (17), Sycamore (14), St. X (3), William Mason (1)

UC's list is all SW Ohio (Centerville is the furthest away from campus).

That's a lot of room to grow our brand awareness around the state, and touching on what's said above, a key component of that should be highlighting the changes to both campus and OTR.

Anecdotal but I knew a massive amount of Cleveland people while at UC. It seemed that for every 1 columbus student I met, I met 2 or 3 cleveland students.
 
05-17-2020 08:24 PM
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Cattidude Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:22 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  UC has done an enormous job since moving to selective admissions, and within a decade, passed OU by. The next step is going to require a lot more work and positioning of the university as the clear-cut alternative to OSU and Miami and not just one of the pack.

A friend sent this to me because he knows I follow this kind of stuff. Loveland High School's top 10 graduating seniors: 1 is going to Notre Dame, and 9 are going to OSU. This isn't in Cleveland; it's right in our back yard.

I think it also speaks to the precarious position Miami has found itself in within Ohio and backs up the quote I saw stating that nine out of ten Ohio kids with offers to OSU and Miami choose OSU. Should Miami's Chicago pipeline dry up because of COVID, they are in real trouble. UC, on the other hand, hasn't overextended itself with out of state students. In fact, we have a huge potential for growth just be extending our brand to the rest of Ohio, but first we need to get more top ten type kids from our own backyard.

I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

I've had this discussion with people before too. They think UC is right in the middle of downtown in some downtrodden area. UC and OSU are very similar in their locations. Just a couple miles outside of downtown but still in the city. UC and Clifton have done a great job of revitalizing everything too. I think a lot of non-Cincinnatians still view Clifton as old and ******.

Columbus people also just seem to have a bad sense of direction and space. I was talking to a guy and he was saying how "UC is in the hood and the neighborhood is terrible." Told him that he's not even remotely close to the truth. He then said he meant the area around UC. He literally said "5 miles away." My mind was blown 5 miles away and you're nowhere close to campus. You're in Kentucky if you go south. A lot of non-Cincinnatians just don't know Cincinnati well
 
05-17-2020 08:29 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(05-17-2020 08:24 PM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:56 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 12:20 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 09:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I up near Loveland and it has a strange concentration of tOSU fans here. I guess it is the easy access to I71N to go up to CBus. There is also a weird fear of Clifton as urban inner city in these parts...as if tOSU isn't in an urban inner city area.

Yup. As someone who has lived Columbus and now lives in Loveland I have these discussions with people all the time:

Loveland/Mason/West Chester Dad: Oh my god, I am not sending my daughter down to the hood (UC). She is going to OSU.

The fact is that part of Columbus might be worse than Clifton, especially when you pull up the crime reports and see all the rapes, murders, and other varieties of crime. For some reason, people think when they go to OSU they will be in a suburban setting.

They get their news from Cincinnati so they aren't as aware of the crime in CBus. Crime is as bad or worse in the Short North and High Street as it is in Clifton.

Interesting to compare the top feeder schools for UC and OSU.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/n...g/461451/1

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/new...g/442138/1

A lot of Cincinnati and Cleveland on the OSU list.

From SW Ohio: Ursiline (25), Lakota West (23), Centerville (17), Sycamore (14), St. X (3), William Mason (1)

UC's list is all SW Ohio (Centerville is the furthest away from campus).

That's a lot of room to grow our brand awareness around the state, and touching on what's said above, a key component of that should be highlighting the changes to both campus and OTR.

Anecdotal but I knew a massive amount of Cleveland people while at UC. It seemed that for every 1 columbus student I met, I met 2 or 3 cleveland students.

Cleveland metro is 2-3 times larger by population, so that would make sense. There are a TON of Cleveland kids at UT too.
 
05-17-2020 08:52 PM
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