(05-12-2020 07:12 PM)Tribester Wrote:  All Cal State Universities going with online classes for the fall semester. The first domino of no sports for the rest of our lives has fallen.

interesting. Cal States are the "2nd tier" schools in California behind the "University of California @ [blank]" system. Wonder if this will end up moving any of them permanently online. Appears 3 of the schools (Fresno State, San Diego State and San Jose State) are part of the Mountain West...

(05-13-2020 05:37 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 07:07 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 06:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 03:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

Hadn't though about Kaplan. I know there are different funding pools, etc. But it's potentially irresponsible to continue on schedule.

Although, if there's no sports...... then you have less juggling for sure of doing things while under construction.

Irresponsible or timed perfectly?
Its unlikely that we WONT have a vaccine within 2 years, so NCAA tourney in 2022 is most certainly ON. Athletics will be suffering. We need the $$$ from a successful basketball team more than ever. The gym will be empty next year. Get it going. When we are allowed to return to normal in 1-2 years, people will be living their best life more than ever. Fun activities every night. Best be ready to give em a show.

I just hope the donors still feel up to it and the money was already set aside long ago.

The common cold is an old form of a coronavirus. Still waiting on a vaccine.

A significant number colleges and universities won't make it through until the 2021-2022 academic year.

Ten million was the high water mark for unemployment in the last recession. We're 50% ahead of that at just under 15 million and we're not at the peak yet.

With the reduction in net worth due to the fall in the value of financial instruments, who knows if the assets counted on to build are still worth what they were. I suspect that not all of the money was sitting around in cash.

"Common cold" is caused by one of 100s of viruses, a few coronaviruses among them. It would be incredibly difficult to make a vaccine to eliminate even the majority of these viruses from the menu. The financial impact is also minimal, since most people are still functional and go to work with colds and almost nobody dies. We arent waiting on one. They arent working on it. When you are targeting a single relatively lethal virus, the likelihood of finding a functional vaccine is significantly higher. Question will be whether there is frequent mutation and this will be a "cure" or simply stem the illness and require a yearly shot.

The state will bail out its universities. Both Reps and Dems alums everywhere want athletics in their respective schools to continue. This is one time that maybe being public will be helpful.

This is still a great time to "Be Bold." We should have the resources to weather the storm much better than these other places like ODU who stretched themselves too thin. Should dominoes start falling, with our history, large relatively wealthy alumni base, yet lowly athletic position, we are arguably well positioned to make a move in this time of crisis.

(05-12-2020 10:35 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 07:12 PM)Tribester Wrote:  All Cal State Universities going with online classes for the fall semester. The first domino of no sports for the rest of our lives has fallen.

interesting. Cal States are the "2nd tier" schools in California behind the "University of California @ [blank]" system. Wonder if this will end up moving any of them permanently online. Appears 3 of the schools (Fresno State, San Diego State and San Jose State) are part of the Mountain West...

The UC system is planning to follow, though it doesn't seem like they've made the decision official.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/12/us/califo...index.html

Likely the same concern for university staffs

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891...m=referral

(05-13-2020 09:56 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 10:35 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 07:12 PM)Tribester Wrote:  All Cal State Universities going with online classes for the fall semester. The first domino of no sports for the rest of our lives has fallen.

interesting. Cal States are the "2nd tier" schools in California behind the "University of California @ [blank]" system. Wonder if this will end up moving any of them permanently online. Appears 3 of the schools (Fresno State, San Diego State and San Jose State) are part of the Mountain West...

The UC system is planning to follow, though it doesn't seem like they've made the decision official.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/12/us/califo...index.html

Interesting. I wonder what tuition discount they will offer. Surely they cannot argue that online instruction is at the same level as their on campus instruction, can they? (If they do, that might well have ramifications further down the line... why should a student pay room and board if they get the same education virtually?)

Georgia opened a couple of weeks ago with a drop in hospitalizations and deaths. Florida and Arizona welcomed all sports teams (no fans).

I sure hope blue state governors don't unnecessarily extend the lockdown in an effort to drain the economy for political reasons.

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(05-13-2020 04:56 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Georgia opened a couple of weeks ago with a drop in hospitalizations and deaths. Florida and Arizona welcomed all sports teams (no fans).

I sure hope blue state governors don't unnecessarily extend the lockdown in an effort to drain the economy for political reasons.

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We wont know if it was a smart decision to open for about a month or longer...takes that long for incubation and then spread for a sizeable outbreak to appear.

(05-13-2020 04:56 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I sure hope blue state governors don't unnecessarily extend the lockdown in an effort to drain the economy for political reasons.

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I sure hope people don't die because red states unnecessarily ignored medical experts because footbaw.






Doesn't that also sound like a ridiculous thing to say?

Yes. It’s ridiculous to expect people to exercise their own judgment about their own lives and what are acceptable risks and what are not for themselves after they have been armed with facts.

“The contest, for ages, has been to rescue Liberty from the grasp of executive power." Daniel Webster 1834.


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People are going to die. People are going to die if the medical experts are right or wrong.

This baby boomer obsession with cheating death is the last gasp of a selfish generation.

Every human dies. Jesus died. Lazarus died. Everybody dies.

However, not everyone is prepared to die, and there is the rub.

Open it up! Let’s go!

Okay. I’ll play.

Cases are going up no matter how long we wait.

Realistically we will be extremely fortunate to develop an effective vaccine, vet it sufficiently, mass produce it and administer it to over 300,000,000 Americans before the end of 2021, if then.

Can we really survive 30,000,000+ Americans plus their dependents out of work for 1.5 + years?

That many Americans losing health insurance, food security and shelter for that long will kill far more than the virus.

In the meantime we will not be developing immunity.

Just my selfish baby boomer opinion.

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(05-13-2020 06:14 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 04:56 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I sure hope blue state governors don't unnecessarily extend the lockdown in an effort to drain the economy for political reasons.

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I sure hope people don't die because red states unnecessarily ignored medical experts because footbaw.






Doesn't that also sound like a ridiculous thing to say?

You're taking offense to that for obvious reasons, but we both know, for a fact, that many many people have blamed republican lawmakers' (fed and state) decisions for deaths. Far left democrats are all over the drained economy like wolves and you know for an absolute fact that many want to steal 2 years of massive economic growth away from Trump and use that come election time. Trump's record-breaking economic policies placed a democrat's chances at winning the presidential election in grave jeopardy and now they have a fighting chance. When governors like Gavin Newsom and Mario Cuomo set policies encouraging citizens to rat on fellow citizens, we've lost a grip. LA County has fined surfers for surfing and filled skateboard parks with sand. What is more isolated than surfing? Why can't kids get outside and skate if they wear masks? The pandemic is currently being handled very poorly by many elected officials and citizens have had just about enough. When you're digging yourself into a hole, stop digging. Don't think for a hot second that many people opposing those elected officials won't exploit that or that they aren't pleased by the ever-growing depths of the holes they're digging. Yes, there are democrats who aren't too keen on the economy rebounding if it will lead to Biden being the next POTUS.

I didn't vote for Trump. I'm not a republican or democrat, and, frankly, I find people who follow a political party's doctrine by the letter to be sheeple. Don't you dare claim that people from both parties don't manage disasters in a manner advantageous to their agenda. Bush did exactly that after 9/11...how's that for parody.

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(05-13-2020 10:52 PM)Tribal Wrote:  You're taking offense to that for obvious reasons, but we both know, for a fact, that many many people have blamed republican's (fed and state) decisions for deaths. Far left democrats are all over the drained economy like wolves and you know for an absolute fact that many want to steal 2 years of massive economic growth away from Trump and use that come election time.

I didn't vote for Trump. I'm not a republican or democrat, and, frankly, find people who follow a political party's doctrine by the letter to be sheeple. Don't you dare claim that people from both parties don't manage disasters in a manner advantageous to their agenda. Bush did exactly that after 9/11...how's that for parody.

Please don't make claims for me, then get outraged at the claims you made on my behalf. Words have meanings. "Absolute fact" means something different than how you used it.

Of course Democrats want to beat Trump in the next election, but suggesting that they're intentionally crippling the economy for no other reason is tinfoil territory. Two months is almost no time at all for medical science to know anything definitively other than we still don't have proven treatment or any way to stop it aside from not giving it the opportunity to spread. The job of the politicians right now is not to make decisions about whether it's safe from a health perspective. It's to figure out what to do economically until it is. Right now is completely off the charts. Everyone wants to get back to living normal lives. The only plans I've seen for re-opening are simply re-open and hope for the best, shut it down if it gets bad again. That's not a plan. This whole thing is changing rapidly enough that there's hasn't been enough time to make a plan before analysis changes again. If we're still learning new things daily and weekly, how can any current plan take that into consideration? Everywhere in the world that places have re-opened they have been shut down again. Plans right now need to be for a month or two out, and have clear milestones that must be met in order to go forward. Anything else is risking lives in the hopes that it's not as bad as it very likely is. Hospitals were not overwhelmed and the demand for ventilators nationally was not anywhere near the worst case estimates. The data shows that's because the country was already shutting itself down before the government mandated it. So all of the isolation and distancing worked to keep the medical system from being overwhelmed like NYC was. Our ability to treat the virus has not changed since then. Changing the only thing that has proven to be effective at preventing the spread is inviting disaster. One of the major concerns among medical experts when isolation started was that it was going to be very effective, leading people to think that isolation was unnecessary. It is no less necessary now than it was then. The complete overwhelming of the medical system was predicted if nothing was done. Instead, as a people and a society, we isolated to avoid that result and we succeeded, so far. But right now we're close to pulling a Leon Lett in the Super Bowl and COVID-19 is Don Beebe.

I have no doubt that at some point we will get past this and return to normalcy, most likely in stages. But suggesting that re-opening decisions now are made simply to win an election underestimates the current situation and is a dangerous mindset. Dangerous because you are believing that policy makers are exclusively making decisions placing the interests of their "team" over the best interests of the people. At that point you've crossed the Rubicon. There's no debate that can happen, because it's all a conspiracy one way or another. I choose to believe that medical experts are recommending continued isolation and distancing because they think it's necessary to continue to keep the pandemic in check, as we mostly have to this point. Also keep in mind that keeping it in check meant over fifty thousand deaths (in the most conservative estimates) over two months.

One last note... IMO Ohio is the state with the most effective strategies and they have a Republican governor. I'd count Virginia as a Democratic-run state that was far too slow to react and still well behind in testing. COVID-19 doesn't care whether it's blue or red policies that let it spread.

I signed up for “flattening the curve” to protect our hospital and medical resources.

Then, the goalposts moved.

I did not, nor will I, sign up for “eradication”.

As for the alleged lack of debate, three things.

First, this dependence upon science, and medical experts, to the exclusion of all other considerations is (fill in the blank), especially when modern day science in other areas has been politicized.

Second, as with anything, it’s all about numbers, and numbers can be used to support any position. As of last weekend, Virginia had been shut down for almost two months because of 800 deaths, 400 of which had occurred in long range care facilities. Really? We shut down for this? Who knew that bio terror has such a hold on our society, when we scarcely blink at seasonal flu deaths, annual auto and drug deaths, and daily abortion deaths?

Third, the executive branches of state and federal governments are running the show; the legislative branches have disappeared. There can be no debate under those circumstances, as we are being DICTATED to by the executive branches. Fortunately, there are some signs of life in the judicial branch on this issue.

Open it up! Let’s roll! Tip of the spear!

BTW, the number one casualty of this, after lives lost ... academia at all levels. W&M needs to be fully open in three months. How about debating that?

(05-14-2020 04:45 AM)nj alum Wrote:  First, this dependence upon science, and medical experts, to the exclusion of all other considerations is (fill in the blank), especially when modern day science in other areas has been politicized.

I wonder what all of the scientists would say if they suddenly lost their jobs? I wonder what would happen to all of the scientists if they were executed for being wrong in their assessments like in other not to be named countries? Of course I know what would happen, they would be dead.

Just some things to ponder. It's real easy to sit back and pick sides when you aren't directly impacted.

The funny thing is that I personally know one and only one person who has had the virus, and I know thousands of people through work and my personal life. That's not a coincidence. That just speaks to how very few people get this thing or know they have it

I live in a smaller population county on the northern end of the Roanoke SMSA. Our county reports cases dailey with a greater breakdown of the disease's progression than most. I wonder how we would feel if all reporting was done in a manner similar to this:

Covid-19 Tracker Dashboard

As validated data are made available, the dashboard will be updated as necessary. In general, the data will be updated daily by 11:00.

Active Cases 1
Deaths 3
Recovered 29
Total cases 33

Or in rough (my calculation) % form, total cases 0.1% of the population, of which 9% of the infected died, 3% of the infected are active, and 88% have recovered. That puts things in a differing perspective for me.

BTW, I hope that no one is naive enough to think things are ever going back to the way that they were. We are going to be searching for a new normal in a pond where the water level has been lowered.

(05-14-2020 04:45 AM)nj alum Wrote:  I signed up for “flattening the curve” to protect our hospital and medical resources.

Then, the goalposts moved.

I did not, nor will I, sign up for “eradication”.

As for the alleged lack of debate, three things.

First, this dependence upon science, and medical experts, to the exclusion of all other considerations is (fill in the blank), especially when modern day science in other areas has been politicized.

Second, as with anything, it’s all about numbers, and numbers can be used to support any position. As of last weekend, Virginia had been shut down for almost two months because of 800 deaths, 400 of which had occurred in long range care facilities. Really? We shut down for this? Who knew that bio terror has such a hold on our society, when we scarcely blink at seasonal flu deaths, annual auto and drug deaths, and daily abortion deaths?

Third, the executive branches of state and federal governments are running the show; the legislative branches have disappeared. There can be no debate under those circumstances, as we are being DICTATED to by the executive branches. Fortunately, there are some signs of life in the judicial branch on this issue.

Open it up! Let’s roll! Tip of the spear!

BTW, the number one casualty of this, after lives lost ... academia at all levels. W&M needs to be fully open in three months. How about debating that?

Part of the problem is that the govt was obviously sandbagging on info initially to prevent absolute panic and chaos. The goalposts havent moved, they were always placed at this position to continue these mitigation efforts indefinitely until there was a cure or reliable treatment. The experts stated these things, but swallowed the more easily to justify "14 day plan" in the face of giving riot-inciting news. Laughable to think 14 days would be enough for anything. Then it was 30 days. The problem with this approach is exactly as you say...it is perceived as moving the goalposts. But the public doesnt want to hear it...and then there is extreme pressure from the public to reopen, regardless of the fact that we dont have control.

Good example is the initial recommendation AGAINST wearing masks. Why would we not wear them at all? There are obvious benefits that are common sense for a respiratory virus. The virus was reportedly highly infectious and spreading in the community in China and Italy well before it was here. The point was to preserve the stockpile for hospitals obviously because we didnt have enough even for them. We still dont have enough, with need to reuse masks for a week even though theyre theoretically contaminated. The recommendation is single-use. Also, people still couldnt get tested when they thought they were exposed until about 2 weeks ago (still not everywhere). We have been playing catchup the entire time.

They are certainly not "excluding all other considerations," but until we have better intel on this, its like us committing a Pearl Harbor. Is it wise to go to battle without knowing exactly what youre getting into?

Science is one of the few places that is not particularly politicized. This is due to the process involved. Journal articles are peer reviewed by large committees. Someone speaking at a microphone is not Science. Stats and Data are not opinion. Its not hard to find a scientist throwing opinion out there, but the majority will back down when confronted with actual data. When entire scientific organizations put out position statements, that is not opinion.

Who's fault is it that the legislatures have disappeared, locally and nationally? We should demand that they stand up. I dont think youd have many people upset about that. America has let the Executive become to powerful in every corner of government.

There are great articles about quarantine fatigue etc and how this is expected, but it is actually more dangerous than the initial spread because people are no longer scared, but instead angry and indignant toward a serious threat.

(05-14-2020 07:10 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  BTW, I hope that no one is naive enough to think things are ever going back to the way that they were. We are going to be searching for a new normal in a pond where the water level has been lowered.

It's not a "new normal"...it's a "new reality".

Normal is long gone. Nothing normal about any of this.

(05-14-2020 08:18 AM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  

(05-14-2020 07:10 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  BTW, I hope that no one is naive enough to think things are ever going back to the way that they were. We are going to be searching for a new normal in a pond where the water level has been lowered.

It's not a "new normal"...it's a "new reality".

Normal is long gone. Nothing normal about any of this.

Unfortunately, over time consistent reality becomes normal.