Student fees comprise a massive amount of the W&M Athletics Department's budget. With students at-risk for a Fall return...and potential student fee refunds thereafter...what could this mean for W&M Athletics?

We dive into this burning question in our most recent article below. What do you think?


Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2020/05/11/covi...athletics/

If you take your premise that kids don't come back to campus, the deficit continues to grow for the college in general. No profit from housing, dining hall, etc. That said, you could still charge the fee whether they live on campus or not. I hold out hope that we will have a freshmen class, but that seems to be up in the air too. Do students take a year off and wait for a true freshman year? I don't know that part. Just like we had a lost senior class, we could have a lost freshman class. What happens for freshmen in 2021?

(05-11-2020 06:24 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  If you take your premise that kids don't come back to campus, the deficit continues to grow for the college in general. No profit from housing, dining hall, etc. That said, you could still charge the fee whether they live on campus or not. I hold out hope that we will have a freshmen class, but that seems to be up in the air too. Do students take a year off and wait for a true freshman year? I don't know that part. Just like we had a lost senior class, we could have a lost freshman class. What happens for freshmen in 2021?

True -- I just worry about the potential for backlash from an overwhelmingly "academically-oriented" student body that has a loud minority voice of kids who wish sports on campus didn't exist.

I hear you. My point goes further. No fraternity/sorority meetings, social distancing in lecture halls is impossible, no social events, no theater. The list goes on and one. If I had a kid going into their freshman year, I would probably advocate for a year in community college or just defer entry until 2021.

(05-12-2020 06:10 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I hear you. My point goes further. No fraternity/sorority meetings, social distancing in lecture halls is impossible, no social events, no theater. The list goes on and one. If I had a kid going into their freshman year, I would probably advocate for a year in community college or just defer entry until 2021.

I understand the point, but it isn't that simple. Everyone cannot defer. If they do, W&M can admit someone else. The number of slots are likely to be the same as is the total number of students. So, some could defer and some could take a gap year that are current students, but not everyone. Would you give up your 4 year slot? Not as easy of a decision. But, some schools may even struggle to fill their enrollment.

For sports, football is likely to be the key. Many schools will be in deep financial trouble if they don't play. I have no idea if they will play, or how that will look at this point. For college, especially at the lower levels, the gate and the 1-2 pay games are very relevant. Not sure either of those is going to happen this fall. But, right now, I am still holding out hope that things get better in the next 3 months.

Citadel announced a 10% across the board cut in their athletic department budget, which was $17.6 million in 2018.

I read an article that there is a reasonable expectation that approximately 50-200 colleges and universities will not make it through the economic crisis caused by the over the top governmental reaction to COVID 19. Smaller colleges without state support or significant endowments are those most vulnerable.

I'm glad that W&M doesn't fall into those buckets, but there is no question that some of the schools we with whom compete athletically may. This is a time that we need to rethink strategy going forward. The landscape will never be the same, athletically or academically.

We need to realize that life is not without risk and that we cannot put the world on hold because of the careless actions of a virology lab and its' government's subsequent collusion with the WHO to cover up the severity of the action in order to save face.

When I was in high school, Woodstock occurred during the end of a global pandemic. Sometime soon we need to begin taking reasonable risks again, before there is even more unwanted change to the landscape and fabric of our country than has already been guaranteed. And before you go there, I acknowledge that there will be needed and welcome change that comes out of this as well.

"The contest, for ages, has been to rescue Liberty from the grasp of executive power." Daniel Webster 1834.

(05-11-2020 06:03 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Student fees comprise a massive amount of the W&M Athletics Department's budget. With students at-risk for a Fall return...and potential student fee refunds thereafter...what could this mean for W&M Athletics?

We dive into this burning question in our most recent article below. What do you think?


Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2020/05/11/covi...athletics/

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For the last school year W&M enrolled over 1000 International students. Over 500 of these students were Chinese. All non-US students pay full "list price" to attend, thus, non -US students are more valuable to W&M's financial bottom line than other students.

Many colleges and universities have recognized this and have aggressively recruited "Inernational" students.

However, given the current pandemic and the focus upon foreign travelers to the US in general I can see the number of International being drastically reduced for this upcoming year, and for the forseeable future.

So 14% of the W&M student body is coming from parts of the world where “football” means soccer, and they’ve never had exposure to American football, and they’re going to support American football at W&M?

And this 14%, are they going to financially support W&M after they graduate?

Is anybody seriously looking at this and saying: “we have a problem”?

And because international students are willing to pay full freight, the incentive for the school to hold the line goes down, and this hits the domestic kids in the pocket book.

How widely known is this stuff?

(05-12-2020 01:21 PM)nj alum Wrote:  And because international students are willing to pay full freight, the incentive for the school to hold the line goes down, and this hits the domestic kids in the pocket book.

How widely known is this stuff?

I'd say pretty widely known. 14% is also not accurate, as far as I can tell.

https://www.wm.edu/offices/revescenter/i...-stats.pdf

Based off our stats, we had 376 undergrad international students (About 5%) and 317 international grad students (Which is closer to 14%, not sure exactly how many grad students we have)

I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

FWIW, W&M has a "Confucius institute" (unless it closed recently) which is an investment the Chinese government is making into American higher education to encourage positive views of China and the CCP.

back on topic, it would seem that most athletic costs would remain necessary, even if there are no games played. Coaches still paid. Players still on scholarship. etc etc. The only thing missing from the costs would be travel, yes?

Just to put it somewhere


W&M programs receive NCAA Public Recognition Awards.

st in CAA
st in the State of Virginia
rd among all public schools

https://t.co/SvQXLPcO7t

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(05-12-2020 03:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

Hadn't though about Kaplan. I know there are different funding pools, etc. But it's potentially irresponsible to continue on schedule.

Although, if there's no sports...... then you have less juggling for sure of doing things while under construction.

(05-12-2020 06:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 03:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

Hadn't though about Kaplan. I know there are different funding pools, etc. But it's potentially irresponsible to continue on schedule.

Although, if there's no sports...... then you have less juggling for sure of doing things while under construction.

Irresponsible or timed perfectly?
Its unlikely that we WONT have a vaccine within 2 years, so NCAA tourney in 2022 is most certainly ON. Athletics will be suffering. We need the $$$ from a successful basketball team more than ever. The gym will be empty next year. Get it going. When we are allowed to return to normal in 1-2 years, people will be living their best life more than ever. Fun activities every night. Best be ready to give em a show.

I just hope the donors still feel up to it and the money was already set aside long ago.

(05-12-2020 07:07 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 06:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 03:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

Hadn't though about Kaplan. I know there are different funding pools, etc. But it's potentially irresponsible to continue on schedule.

Although, if there's no sports...... then you have less juggling for sure of doing things while under construction.

Irresponsible or timed perfectly?
Its unlikely that we WONT have a vaccine within 2 years, so NCAA tourney in 2022 is most certainly ON. Athletics will be suffering. We need the $$$ from a successful basketball team more than ever. The gym will be empty next year. Get it going. When we are allowed to return to normal in 1-2 years, people will be living their best life more than ever. Fun activities every night. Best be ready to give em a show.

I just hope the donors still feel up to it and the money was already set aside long ago.

Hard to argue with your logic.


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(05-12-2020 03:51 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  back on topic, it would seem that most athletic costs would remain necessary, even if there are no games played. Coaches still paid. Players still on scholarship. etc etc. The only thing missing from the costs would be travel, yes?

Agree -- coach salaries, athletic facilities, student athlete scholarships -- all of those things need to be paid for, regardless if students are on campus or "virtual" this Fall.

I don't see W&M significantly cutting into the intercollegiate student fees, which currently sit at $1992 per student. Though that could cause a lot of uproar for the present-day student body...

(05-12-2020 07:07 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 06:10 PM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-12-2020 03:16 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I wonder if this impacts that ability to refurbish Kaplan on the same time horizon. Lot's of extra money was needed to bridge the gap. I'm sure the Athletic Department will run a huge loss if we don't play in front of live and paying audiences.

As and aside, Todd Boehly is taking it in the seat as part owner of the Dodgers.

Hadn't though about Kaplan. I know there are different funding pools, etc. But it's potentially irresponsible to continue on schedule.

Although, if there's no sports...... then you have less juggling for sure of doing things while under construction.

Irresponsible or timed perfectly?
Its unlikely that we WONT have a vaccine within 2 years, so NCAA tourney in 2022 is most certainly ON. Athletics will be suffering. We need the $$$ from a successful basketball team more than ever. The gym will be empty next year. Get it going. When we are allowed to return to normal in 1-2 years, people will be living their best life more than ever. Fun activities every night. Best be ready to give em a show.

I just hope the donors still feel up to it and the money was already set aside long ago.

The common cold is an old form of a coronavirus. Still waiting on a vaccine.

A significant number colleges and universities won't make it through until the 2021-2022 academic year.

Ten million was the high water mark for unemployment in the last recession. We're 50% ahead of that at just under 15 million and we're not at the peak yet.

With the reduction in net worth due to the fall in the value of financial instruments, who knows if the assets counted on to build are still worth what they were. I suspect that not all of the money was sitting around in cash.

(05-12-2020 01:18 PM)nj alum Wrote:  So 14% of the W&M student body is coming from parts of the world where “football” means soccer, and they’ve never had exposure to American football, and they’re going to support American football at W&M?

And this 14%, are they going to financially support W&M after they graduate?

Is anybody seriously looking at this and saying: “we have a problem”?

This will shock some of you, but, maybe, just maybe, it's possible that some of those international students were admitted for their academic merit and not based on their likelihood to support the football program.