(03-30-2020 03:23 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:45 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  The only reason the acceptance rate is low is because of Bright Futures. I interned in FSU's athletic department. Those students are some of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life.

Yes and no. Florida is not the only state with a scholarship program to entice students to stay in-state. And the value of Bright Futures hasn't really kept up with inflation, though I feel like they boosted the benefits last year, so maybe that situation is improving.

Georgia, for instance, has the Hope Scholarship, which is comparable to Bright Futures. Historically it has been more valuable and easier to earn than Bright Futures, though I don't know if that still holds true. The acceptance rates in GA: Ga State (71%, 21/26), UGA (45%, 30/34), Ga Tech (19%, 31/34), Ga Southern (68%, 21/25), Kennesaw St (58%, 21/26). Georgia Tech is a big outlier, and I think it's a better university than any in Florida (though not as comprehensive as any of our Big 4). But the others are comparable to peers, and I think Florida is clearly doing well in comparison.

Some of it simply is Florida's population. We have 10 comprehensive state universities and 2 specialized institutions. Georgia has way more than that. Texas has way more than that. So we get a lot of applications per institution and can't serve them all at the top schools. The other part is that the Florida schools have done a lot to make themselves desirable for students through rapidly improving academics, amenities, athletic success, location, etc.

Those scholarships have really made it tough to get in. We know kids who got into Cornell and Georgia Tech who got wait listed at Georgia. Others who got into Georgia Tech and Tulane who got outright rejected by Georgia. Another who got into Florida but rejected by Georgia. Lots of stories like that.

We looked at Florida schools (the big 4) because Georgia was so difficult to get into AND Florida has relatively low out of state tuition compared to other southern states, but they were all fairly tough too.

(03-30-2020 01:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So who are the FBS IVY’s? Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, and Temple?

Are you trying to be snide?

(03-30-2020 02:03 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So who are the FBS IVY’s? Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, and Temple?

Tulane, not Temple

Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 02:03 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So who are the FBS IVY’s? Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, and Temple?

Tulane, not Temple

Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

(03-27-2020 12:04 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 10:27 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:00 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 10:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  CAA Rankings, by USNWR:

40 - W&M
40 - Northeastern
84 - Elon
91 - Delaware
97 - Drexel
162 - Hofstra
185 - UNC Wilmington
197 - Towson
3 (South) - James Madison
8 (South) - College of Charleston

Honestly pretty decent overall

I'll always get a laugh at Elon 84th and Drexel in the top 100.

Elon I'm not sure on. Them (And also Northeastern) might've played the 'What do we have to change to increase our USNWR/Forbes rankings' game.

Drexel is probably tough to rank. An engineering degree from there is pretty well respected, but their other programs don't tend to be as highly rated.

I graduated from HS in 07. My college counselor recommended Elon. My parents were like what the **** is Elon? I don't know a single person who ever went there.

I have a master's from Drexel. It's a very good school for business and engineering. Temple crushes it in absolutely everything else, is a much more difficult school, and is more of a traditional college with athletics and school pride. Drexel was always a private school for people who thought they were too good for a state school and couldn't get into GW/BU/Northeastern/Miami level schools. I knew several like this from HS. Once we catch up to them in engineering (probably our worst department), and endowment ($120M behind them and closing the gap every year), we're going to blow by them.

(03-30-2020 09:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 03:23 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:45 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  The only reason the acceptance rate is low is because of Bright Futures. I interned in FSU's athletic department. Those students are some of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life.

Yes and no. Florida is not the only state with a scholarship program to entice students to stay in-state. And the value of Bright Futures hasn't really kept up with inflation, though I feel like they boosted the benefits last year, so maybe that situation is improving.

Georgia, for instance, has the Hope Scholarship, which is comparable to Bright Futures. Historically it has been more valuable and easier to earn than Bright Futures, though I don't know if that still holds true. The acceptance rates in GA: Ga State (71%, 21/26), UGA (45%, 30/34), Ga Tech (19%, 31/34), Ga Southern (68%, 21/25), Kennesaw St (58%, 21/26). Georgia Tech is a big outlier, and I think it's a better university than any in Florida (though not as comprehensive as any of our Big 4). But the others are comparable to peers, and I think Florida is clearly doing well in comparison.

Some of it simply is Florida's population. We have 10 comprehensive state universities and 2 specialized institutions. Georgia has way more than that. Texas has way more than that. So we get a lot of applications per institution and can't serve them all at the top schools. The other part is that the Florida schools have done a lot to make themselves desirable for students through rapidly improving academics, amenities, athletic success, location, etc.

Those scholarships have really made it tough to get in. We know kids who got into Cornell and Georgia Tech who got wait listed at Georgia. Others who got into Georgia Tech and Tulane who got outright rejected by Georgia. Another who got into Florida but rejected by Georgia. Lots of stories like that.

We looked at Florida schools (the big 4) because Georgia was so difficult to get into AND Florida has relatively low out of state tuition compared to other southern states, but they were all fairly tough too.

Metro Atlanta’s high schools also fill up so many spots at UGA. Just Cobb and Gwinnett counties are 36 high schools. I checked and there are over 50 high schools in metro Atlanta with over 2,000 students. Most of them take academics seriously.

I used to play competitive quiz bowl in HS and we’d have tournaments where they were 20-30 schools from metro Atlanta there. That was 2006-10.

That is why pretty much every large university in the South and the big national schools has a decent amount of students from there.

Elon is a “new-money” kind of school. A ton of folks from NY, NJ, and surprisingly MA. That was why they went to the CAA, so they could get more students from those states. Most of those students have very high incomes.

The NYT did a study a few years ago and the median parent income for a Elon was over $200K.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/proj...university

I sure as hell wouldn't go to Elon over CofC.

(03-27-2020 09:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  When it comes to academics, different things matter to different constituencies:

Parents and Students ..... US News is all that matters because this is what the media cares about. Nobody cares about AAU, Chinese 1000, Leiden, or anything else.

Though it depends on which Parents and which Students ... for schools that are 10% to 40% International student enrollment, that waters down the importance of the US News rankings among their parents and students, because only American parents and students care or even know about the USNWR rankings. The Shanghai list is the beginning, middle and end of the story for Chinese parents and students, and it is an important consideration for Southeast and South Asian parents and students. THE starts to increase in importance for Europe, Latin America and Africa.
_______________________

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  ... Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

Cornell is an odd duck in being part private and part public ... the individual colleges are either private or public. So acceptance rate at Cornell is kind of an average of the acceptance rate at the private colleges, which is lower, and at the public colleges, which is higher.

Part of that is the arrangements sorted out so Cornell agricultural college could serve as NY State's land grant.

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 02:03 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So who are the FBS IVY’s? Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, and Temple?

Tulane, not Temple

Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 02:03 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 01:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So who are the FBS IVY’s? Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, and Temple?

Tulane, not Temple

Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

(04-03-2020 12:30 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 02:03 PM)whittx Wrote:  Tulane, not Temple

Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

The 4,200 undergrads quoted in the UNC article is the number of freshmen they "expect" to enroll. You think everyone who gets accepted to North Carolina goes there? Carolina will accept far more than 4,200 if it wants a freshman class of 4,200.

(04-03-2020 12:40 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:30 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

The 4,200 undergrads quoted in the UNC article is the number of freshmen they "expect" to enroll. You think everyone who gets accepted to North Carolina goes there? Carolina will accept far more than 4,200 if it wants a freshman class of 4,200.

Ah, that explains it. So the 22% acceptance rate actually makes perfect sense. Thanks.

(04-03-2020 12:40 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:30 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 11:17 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Notre Dame, too, and I'd argue USC.

If you open it up to public schools I'd throw in Michigan, UNC, Cal at a minimum.

Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

The 4,200 undergrads quoted in the UNC article is the number of freshmen they "expect" to enroll. You think everyone who gets accepted to North Carolina goes there? Carolina will accept far more than 4,200 if it wants a freshman class of 4,200.

This is not some community college looking for students to make numbers.

(04-04-2020 08:27 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:40 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:30 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

The 4,200 undergrads quoted in the UNC article is the number of freshmen they "expect" to enroll. You think everyone who gets accepted to North Carolina goes there? Carolina will accept far more than 4,200 if it wants a freshman class of 4,200.

This is not some community college looking for students to make numbers.

Nobody was saying it is, all they were saying is that if UNC enrolls 4,200 freshmen they have to accept more than that, not everyone admitted to UNC is going to enroll.

(04-04-2020 08:27 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:40 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 12:30 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-01-2020 09:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Based on the USN&WR rankings the answer is:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Rice
UCLA

Those are the only FBS schools in the top 20. Five of the eight Ivies are in the top 10 and Cornell is ranked the lowest at #17.

Based on selectivity, and excluding the service academies, the list changes to:

Stanford
Northwestern
Duke
Vanderbilt
Rice
USC
UCLA
Cal

Those are the only FBS schools with acceptance rates of 15% or below. Seven of the eight Ivies are below 10% and Cornell has the highest acceptance rate at 11%.

The top 6 Public schools are Cal (22), UCLA(20), Michigan(25), UVa(28) , Carolina(29), and Georgia Tech(29).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...top-public

BTW the acceptance rate at Carolina is a little over 11%
4,200 undergrads, 800 transfers....44,784 applications (Jan 2019 data).

https://uncnews.unc.edu/2019/01/25/carol...tive-year/

This was my source:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ran...tance-rate

They report the fall 2018 undergraduate acceptance rate for UNC at 22%. Looks like they got their math wrong.

The 4,200 undergrads quoted in the UNC article is the number of freshmen they "expect" to enroll. You think everyone who gets accepted to North Carolina goes there? Carolina will accept far more than 4,200 if it wants a freshman class of 4,200.

This is not some community college looking for students to make numbers.

So there's a concept called admissions yield, which is the percentage of students accepted who actually attend. No one has 100% yield, not even Harvard, Stanford, or Yale.

For 2018, UNC had 39,650 applicants, accepted 9,673 of those (24.4% acceptance rate), and of those 9,673, 4,356 enrolled as UNC students. That generates a yield of 45%, which is right in line with UNC's academic peers like Michigan, Cal, and Vanderbilt. Harvard and Stanford both tend to be right about 80% with a little yearly fluctuation in each direction, and Yale is a bit below that.

Different schools have different approaches. Johns Hopkins admitted only 12% of applicants, but they only yielded 40%, which is well below their academic peers. At the same time, Notre Dame admitted 19% but yielded 55%, which would suggest they are pretty good at identifying students that have ND as their #1.